So everyone here was super helpful when I was gathering info before buying my monster. I've checked out a few bmw forums but wanted to get some opinions from this group [thumbsup]. I am looking at a higher milage 2007 328xi coupe, working within a limited budget. From what I've read the 3 series are pretty solid, fun, decent driving vehicles. My concern comes up after reading about reliability and maintenance cost horror stories. Does anyone here have a 3 series and would you recommend it to others? I know every car has issues and can be pricey I just don't want to buy a something notorious for problem after problem. Thanks!
I had a 330I convertible. Great fun to drive but every time the top actually worked I felt like I won the lottery. I would NEVER own that car without a full warranty...........
Damn thing adjusts the passenger mirror down to look at the curb when parking...... To many bits and sensors to break and I felt the full effect of it. The BMW's are only great if you can stay in the warranty!
Our currently cages are my '11 135 M-sport 6mt and her '12 328xi coupe (European delivery), previously she drove a '08 335xi coupe.
Only issue we've had was on the 335, a temp sensor didn't like going from a 55* heated garage to -20* outside and would throw a CEL, didn't affect performance just a PITA.
If you can look for a CPO with time and mileage left on the warranty. Also take a test thrash drive in a 135 /128, it's what the 3 series was a couple of generation ago.
What kind of milage is higher milage? The E90 3 series is not a horrible car but there are some things to watch out for. The N52K engine uses a mag block so most of the bolts are aluminum, over time & heat cycles the heads break off the bolts causing all sorts of issues. If it is an auto make sure it is not slipping or shifting rough, the ZF trans with the plastic pan is worse for this than the GM trans with the metal pan, a 328 could have either. Have it inspected before make a decision, get as much service history as you can & try to get an extended warranty on it.
Great cars to drive, my brother had a 318ti that was a hoot! But ... they can get very very expensive! Guy in my condo had to replace a $500+ head light module due to some BS component that had gone bad in his 5-series.
If you're on a budget sites like http://www.germanautoparts.com/ (http://www.germanautoparts.com/) or even your local junkyard might be your best friend. I used to have a 3rd gen Golf, and while I loved the car (and miss it!), going into the shop (any, not just VW) meant spending on it more than it was worth.
I also have a 2006 BMW F650GS, and it's a well build bike but the parts are expensive! Also there's so many f***ing screws holding everything together... [bang] I feel like the Germans tend to go OCD when engineering their bikes (and cars) and overdo things... like the axle on my F650's triples: it's two pieces with a special nut and requires a special tool to torque it down correctly... [roll]
If you're looking for a cheap fun car I can recommend the Honda Civic Si. Unlike the regular Civic, it has proper shocks, seats, a manual 6-speed, and Japanese practical reliability.
A buddy had an early 2000s 3-series. Fun to drive, decently built. However, once it got out of warranty and close to 90K on the odo, the little stuff started cropping up. Said little stuff cost an average of a grand every time he took it in.
Now he drives a C-class Benz. Same general situation.
Just got rid of my wife's 335i with 55k on the odo. I've never had a car in the shop more. As was said, do not own a bmw with no warranty. The last repair which they covered as a good faith warranty at 51K would have run me $2200 and was just a fuel pump. Fun to drive but horribly unrealiable.
E30 and E36 are/were examples of how bulletproof they can be...the E46 can be depending on how it was driven and maintained....I have not much experience beyond the E46 generation.
Ours was easy to maintain. It was in the shop so much it never missed an oil change. :)
There is a reason they are called BM Trouble Yous..........
If you own a German car, and it's out of warranty, be prepared to spend on maintenance and repairs. This is true for Audi, BMW, M-B, Porsche, and VW. They're fun to drive and well-engineered, but when they start getting long in the tooth and the little electrical crap starts breaking, they can cause some very expensive headaches.
I highly recommend having a good German auto mechanic nearby.
This is the biggest reason why my wife and I bought a new Subaru Outback instead of a used Porsche Cayenne. No German auto mechanic nearby... closest reputable one is 2 hours away. The Subaru dealership (with a reputable service shop) is 45 min away, and only 20 min from my workplace. If something needs fixed and I don't have the time to do it, the shop is the backup, and I like having them nearby.
You may get lucky, and your particular car may have been well-maintained, and it may only break cheap stuff occasionally, and generally be a good car. I just wouldn't gamble on it unless you have a reliable backup vehicle.
I had a 1986 E30 325i M-tech when I was 19, best car I ever had.
Buddy of mine got a E39 520ia with 340 000km on the counter. It will be the second bimmer he takes over 350k km.
Thank you all for the feedback and firsthand experiences! This particular car has 94,000 miles on it, I think I will keep looking. Seems like without a warranty and the fact its not a certified pre owned from a dealer with a decent paper trail of service history its a bit risky.
Quote from: Skybarney on October 15, 2013, 09:04:28 AM
There is a reason they are called BM Trouble Yous..........
New one. Always heard they were called Break My Wallets.
I work in an independent BMW / Mini repair shop as the service manager and sometime tech ( been working on these cars since the mid '70's and am ASE Master certified. Even did a stint for years as a dealership service manager. The E90 series is no car to own without a good, highly comprehensive extended warranty. Period. I don't think they drive as nicely as the E46 series and they are far more complicated. Good luck to anyone with a 335i. If you haven't been bitten yet you will be. Not only are they ( all models ) fussy and prone to breaking you really need the combination of a good experienced, intelligent, honest tech with a good grasp of the fundamentals and the particular traits of these cars. That combination is hard to find and well worth what he charges you if you do find him. God help you if you are going to Jiffy Lube or other generic shops. You WILL suffer as a result. You cannot cross compare other older models with the new ones. They are completely different animals. My $0.02.
Quote from: Drjones on October 15, 2013, 06:17:58 PM
New one. Always heard they were called Break My Wallets.
Also Bring Money Willingly. ;D
Quote from: duc_fan on October 15, 2013, 01:44:10 PM
They're fun to drive and well-engineered,
I don't consider a car that breaks down all the time to be well engineered. We bought ours new and I highly doubt I would ever purchase one again.
Fun to drive? Yes. When it's working.
This thread has me thinking. I know, scary thought
What we all have in common is Ducati motorcycles, meaning we all should understand thoroughbreds.
If you buy a used Audi, BMW, Ferrari, Mercedes, Porsche, Lamborghini...... you are buying a second (third) owner thoroughbred.
Did the previous owners give it good food? (high quality premium vs. the cheapest stuff from any source)
Did they treat it right? (baby it until the engine is warmed up and baby it for a few minute before shutdown to allow things to cool off)
Did they take it to the "Vet" as required? (all maintenance done timely)
Allow it to stretch it legs regularly? (ask how many sets of tires, 15K a set is about right, under 10k means abuse, over 20k it was babied)
If you wanted a thoroughbred go for it, just make sure the previous owner wasn't treating it like a plow horse.
Sno_Duc,
Nice post, but...my limited experience with those things is that it doesn't matter how religiously they've been maintained, babied and cared for. They will still break.
Bob
It baffles me how the German cars manage to keep such a stellar reputation when all you hear out of them is stupid trouble. Honestly, they should recieve more scorn than your typical Chrysler product. Coworker just got rid of his new Audi S4 after multiple trips to the dealership couldn't fix a driveline issue. They finally ended up flying a couple of guys from Europe over to figure it out. He didn't wait to see if it was fixed, just cut his losses and ran. As has been stated, BMWs good years end with their warranty coverage, hardly an endorsement of actual quality. They aren't well engineered. They are overly complex. Too many people confuse the two.
It also depends which model you're talking about. I have an E92 M3, and that thing is bulletproof thus far.
Also, I'd point that one reason German cars are "overly complex" is that they typically are more advanced in terms of new features and tech, as opposed to the Lexus model: let the Germans come with the idea, then 5 years later after all the bugs are worked out, we'll copy it and sell it cheaper.
Just depends what you want. All I know is, I've never driven anything else that can duplicate the steering feedback and precision one gets from a BMW or a Porsche. If you want soulless, cheap, and completely reliable, German cars may not be the right call. But if that's what you want, why are you on a Duc instead of a Honda?
no troubles with my Golf (150,000 miles now) or Audi (34,000)
Quote from: DW on October 21, 2013, 09:50:14 AM
It baffles me how the German cars manage to keep such a stellar reputation when all you hear out of them is stupid trouble.
Mercedes were dead reliable until the mid/late 90's. People have been doing veggie oil / biodiesel conversions on old merc diesels and love them. Seems like they're coming back with their reliability now.
My '94 Golf did everything I asked of it and more. Parts wear out and need to be replaced, that's all. DC to Chicago several times, trips to Boston, Niagara Falls... Mainly sold it because I needed another pair of doors. Enough room though, here she is with mattress, bookshelf and bedframe (and there was still space left inside!) when I moved into my new apt.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-G4aaaFkLyuw/SAbFKpIHC5I/AAAAAAAAAEk/1m7_8mEMsUc/s800/01.jpg)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-OH2keHOzqF8/SAbBKJIHC4I/AAAAAAAAAEU/TgGuYHkNq-g/s800/10.jpg)
Damn I miss that car! :'(
Quote from: swampduc link=topic=65543.msg1211049#msg1211049 date=If you want soulless, cheap, and completely reliable, German cars may not be the right call.
A glowing recommendation. [laugh]
Why can't these genius Germans with their "more advanced" technology also make something reliable? And what does cheap have to do with the discussion? Everyone, including me, that posted about the issues with their BMW's obviously can afford one. I just wanted my wife to be able to drive it somewhere without breaking down. And I certainly wouldn't consider a bmw a car with soul. They are as corporate and soulless as a car can be. Old mustangs, challengers, GTO's, Ferraris, etc. those have soul.
Us German types can't leave well enough alone. ;)
As a german I, unfortunately, have to agree with the above and might add that even the Audi, VW, BMW, Mercedes dealerships, which are about in every town overhere are not able to deal with some of the problems of their gimmick loaded cars. That is the reason that i swore to myself not to buy another new volkswagen again.
Our Audi A6 on the other hand, now 6 years old, is the most reliable car so far.
Concerning the 3 series, my brother in law has a M3 which is hell when working fine but also had its share of shop time (covered by warranty).
The problem with german cars is that prizetag and quality are going opposite ways for the last years.
And also, like mentioned before, the outrageous costs for spareparts.
Klaus
Quote from: Stabel1 on October 28, 2013, 11:21:16 AM
As a german I, ...........
Klaus
Do you live in Germany?
I think a couple of the problems German car have in the USA are crappy fuel, and lack of maintenance. (read the other day that Ford is having problems with their direct injected "eco-boost" engines.........BMW's N54, N55 and Audi's TSI engine also have had problems. Wanna bet that if fed German gasoline a lot of the problems would go away)
Germans by law have to do a yearly TUV check.
Klaus what exactly gets done in a TUV check?
US diesel sucks too
I put in fuel treatment every fill up
Also I do my own fuel filter changes so I know the big pump is never being run dry as I know to cycle the electric pumps afterward.
I don't trust that the dealerships always get that part right
Picked up an E46 last year (with the ZHP performance package). Car has been great. Has low miles and was well maintained by the first owner. Looked at others with sketchy history and ran quickly away.
Before buying it, had many hours of conversation with the local BMW independent shop. They suggested to stay away from the E90's (2006 and newer). Much more complex in terms of electronics and software. And from what I saw in their shop, this was a big part of their business...tracking down bugs with newer 3's and 5's.
Also, no dipstick or spare tire with the 2006 and newer models.
Weak points with all BMW's
Cooling system - pressurized overflow tank is plastic, becomes time bomb after 60k miles.
water pump impeller is plastic
Suspension - plan on replacing bushings, helper springs, and possibly ball joint/control arm assy's after 100k
DISA valve - on NA engines. Plastic flapper valve inside intake manifold which falls apart and spits debris down intake.
Additional weak points on E90's
Steering column lock failure - due to the push button start feature, column fails to unlock
2006 330's has a one year only engine. Saw two going in for new engines while talking with the local shop
335's fuel pumps
As for DIY, I find the E46 better thought out then the last 3 Honda products I have owned. Can't speak for the newer models.
Good Luck!
fc
Quote from: Frank C on October 30, 2013, 07:46:25 AM
Cooling system - pressurized overflow tank is plastic, becomes time bomb after 60k miles.
water pump impeller is plastic
I can answer why these 2 issues come to be on MOST German cars nowadays...
on the coolant reservoirs ( and washer fluid reservoirs too), they are molded in after the engine and drivetrain are fitted with blow molding techniques to fit in the spaces otherwise not used, so they aren't designed with airflow or heat disapation ability like they have been in the past...the plastic welds degrade from heat over time and thus you have the issues presenting themselves anywhere from 60K-120K ( region and driving dependant)
on the water pump impellors, also most German manu's are going with these because when the bearing starts to wear out and develop a wobble, the fins on the blade being plastic can potentially cycle through the vehicle system without honking out the block or other things, as a chunk of metal from a metal impellor would do which might cause the engine/block/head to have to be replaced in said such event....
@sno_duc
I really don´t know about the fuel quality only that the newer cars are supposed to be driven with high octane fuel, but they are supposed to recognize lower octane fuel and adjust to it.
I still think the problem is in the more and more complex electronics. For example with my 30 year old FIAT Spider when I need a new battery I go to a parts store buy one for 50 Euros put it in and it´s done. With our Audi, the car has to reconfigurated to the new battery and can only be exchanged with special software - costs: 500 Euros, the same with a different radio tuner or a trailer hitch...everything is somehow connected and everything needs special software and you can´t do anything by yourself anymore. Even if you want to exchange a light bulb you are refered to the dealership...
And while we are on it, the bikes are going the same way...my 1198 just quit running and all i got was a CAN bus error number in the display...it is just a subject I hate, sorry [bang] [bang]
The TÃœV is a technical inspection which is required every two years after the first three years for cars and bikes it is supposed to ensure the roadsafety. It includes the checking of brakes, lights, shock absorbers, bearings, exhaust system (including proper working of the catalytic converter), oil leaking, tire condition and more. I guess it is a lttle bit tougher than in alot of other countries due to the lack of a speed limit on some parts of the Autobahn.
Quote from: hbliam on October 16, 2013, 12:30:09 AM
I don't consider a car that breaks down all the time to be well engineered. We bought ours new and I highly doubt I would ever purchase one again.
Fun to drive? Yes. When it's working.
Wife complained for over a year after we got rid of it. Now we have a new 535i. [roll] Hopefully our luck is better with this one. It's damn nice.
You were warned, by yourself! ;D
Quote from: Skybarney on July 10, 2014, 06:46:51 PM
You were warned, by yourself! ;D
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Here in Aus, German cars are seen as quite the elite vehicle.
You almost never hear of their numerous gremlins/issues/problems, but that is largely because wealthier people buy them new.
I've heard horror stories about massive bills once out of warranty.