Hi everyone,
My first question for the forum is, which sub-forum here is best for information regarding rideability, suitability and longevity of the various Monsters? I've begun to use the search key, but I figured I'd ask yall to see if I could narrow it down. Thanks =)
I'm thinking right here in the General Forum is the place to ask those questions.
Well, I've got a 2003 800ie with just under 70K trouble free miles but she's about shot now. Needs an engine.
Of the older 2 valvers the 2000-2001 900ie S models are excellent. The 2000 S model has an Ohlins rear shock standard, the 2001 model has a stronger chassis. Good, reliable street motors with earlier, more easily tunable efi, air cooled simplicity. Cheap and relatively easy maintenance too.
The S4R and S4Rs models have a ton more power up top, but are more expensive to maintain. All you'll ever need for the street.
A good maintenance history is important.
Good luck.
I think a good first step is deciding just what you want in a bike, and what you intend on doing with it.
I've got a 1999 (carbs) with almost 40,000 miles on out. Outside of basic maintenance stuff, I've only replaced about $150 work of stuff. What I've replaced: Carb diaphragms, ($60ish for the pair, needle jets (can't remember, wasn't terrible), and the battery to frame ground cable. I've not even replaced the clutch yet.
JM
Thanks guys!!
Already some great information, so I'll be a bit more detailed since this is the right place to ask.
For starters, due to my own personal preference, I've been looking at S*R models for the adjustable suspension and the single-sided-swingarm models.
Also trying to compare apples to apples as much as possible, I've done some reading about the S2R1000 versus the S4R. It really seems like the S2R1000 is a more suitable street and day-ride bike than the S4R, it seems like the 4 needs to spend all its time wound up high to take advantage of the power. I've also read that the 2 has a more usable torque band as a result of not being so high strung. The bike I end up with will be used mostly for road and spirited twisty roads, with occasional track days, so something with a usable power band is important.
Another question for the experts is, in regard to any used Monster, assuming proper maintenance and having been well cared for, is a bike with 10-15k miles on it a safe bet mechanically? It sounds like it is, hearing what you guys have said about bikes that finally after 40k miles need a fresh engine. That's another reason that I've read a bit more about the S2R1000, the fact that its engine is (based on the reviews) based on the very well-proven, robust engine layout that's been in use forever.
Are there any folks here who can vouch for the S*R models? Anyone who wouldn't vouch for them?
I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but that's enough for now. Thanks again, guys, all feedback is welcome!
P.S. - title changed to something more relevant
Quote from: SpikeC on November 25, 2013, 04:57:20 PM
I think a good first step is deciding just what you want in a bike, and what you intend on doing with it.
+1
based on your above response though, my .02 ( even though aethestically it isn't what you want) is to find an 03 M1000 S and ride the ever loving hell out of it in all capacities.
Quote from: BTF/PTM on November 26, 2013, 03:49:13 AM
Also trying to compare apples to apples as much as possible, I've done some reading about the S2R1000 versus the S4R. It really seems like the S2R1000 is a more suitable street and day-ride bike than the S4R, it seems like the 4 needs to spend all its time wound up high to take advantage of the power.
The S4R & S4RS still make plenty of power across the band. However, they are 4-valve with more expensive maintenance. They're still both v-twins with a nice smooth torque curve. The S2R1000 or M1000 will make plenty of power and cost less to maintain overall.
Quote from: BTF/PTM on November 26, 2013, 03:49:13 AM
Another question for the experts is, in regard to any used Monster, assuming proper maintenance and having been well cared for, is a bike with 10-15k miles on it a safe bet mechanically?
I bought my M750 with 13,000 miles on it. It's been fine mechanically, motor has never needed to be opened up. I would say, if you can get one with service records, replace any rubber bits (tires, belts mostly) that are over 2 years old you'll be fine from a mechanical standpoint.
JM
Quote from: BTF/PTM on November 26, 2013, 03:49:13 AM
Another question for the experts is, in regard to any used Monster, assuming proper maintenance and having been well cared for, is a bike with 10-15k miles on it a safe bet mechanically? It sounds like it is, hearing what you guys have said about bikes that finally after 40k miles need a fresh engine. That's another reason that I've read a bit more about the S2R1000, the fact that its engine is (based on the reviews) based on the very well-proven, robust engine layout that's been in use forever.
new engine after 40k? I'm way over due, if that's the case.
(https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/1236942_10202030727634970_651716595_n.jpg)
Other than consumable parts, the engine has been fine. The last valve check it only needed 1 shim.
Electricals is another story. My pops always says Ducati has genius mechanical engineers and C+ electrical engineers (he's an electrical engineer).
I upgraded from an 06 S2R800 to an 07 S4RS. I loved my S2R for the city, but I think the additional power of the S2R 1000 and the adjustable suspension would have made it even better specifically on the highway to get to the twisties.
You don't need to get the S4R/RS to a high rpm to get rideability out of it. It's has an enormous amount of torque down low. Both bikes will have more useable power than you will ever need for the streets, twisties, and the occasional track day.
If you're deciding between the these two models in particular I would think about the maintenance differences between a 2 valve air cooled vs a 4 valve water cooled engine. There's more to maintain on the S4R/RS than the S2R and each major maintenance interval will take more time. The S4R/RS will be more expensive to maintain as a function of the additional parts.
I think you'd be happy with either. I would definitely vouch for either bike.
One thing to note: both bikes have plastic/nylon tanks which will expand over time with the use of ethanol based gasoline. I've Caswell coated both my bikes and haven't had any further expanding problems. It's a prudent question (along with other major servicing such as belts and valves, etc) to ask when you are looking at potential purchases whether the tank has been replaced, when, and if it was coated.
Quote from: Ak1nza on November 26, 2013, 09:14:46 AM
One thing to note: both bikes have plastic/nylon tanks which will expand over time with the use of ethanol based gasoline. I've Caswell coated both my bikes and haven't had any further expanding problems. It's a prudent question (along with other major servicing such as belts and valves, etc) to ask when you are looking at potential purchases whether the tank has been replaced, when, and if it was coated.
Big +1
S2R1000 all the way.
Just another chance to toss a 'thank you' into the mix again. Thanks a ton, guys, this is fantastic info.
One advantage of looking for a bike in Germany is that paperwork is very thorough, thanks to their equivalent of the DOT (the TUV, their vehicle safety department).
I just came from looking at a 2004 S4R with 17,000km on it (about 11k miles), black on black. Really sexy bike, as mentioned the fluids and belts and valves have been properly serviced (paperwork available). Oh, and all three keys are there as well. The VIN's confused me some, the VIN for the frame and the engine are very different patterns, and neither VIN matched the VIN decoder I found with a google search, but that's another post, I suppose.
Tomorrow I'm goin to look at an S2R1000, another S4R and a couple other Monsters.
Thanks again!! Feel free to keep it coming [thumbsup]
Quote from: Ak1nza on November 26, 2013, 09:14:46 AM
One thing to note: both bikes have plastic/nylon tanks which will expand over time with the use of ethanol based gasoline. I've Caswell coated both my bikes and haven't had any further expanding problems. It's a prudent question (along with other major servicing such as belts and valves, etc) to ask when you are looking at potential purchases whether the tank has been replaced, when, and if it was coated.
The S4R had a metal tank until the 2007 model.
It's also a mute point since it's being sold in Europe. IIRC ethanol is still not mandatory on that side of the world.
Quote from: duccarlos on November 26, 2013, 01:53:02 PM
It's also a mute point since it's being sold in Europe. IIRC ethanol is still not mandatory on that side of the world.
why you gotta go killing my one piece of valuable info.
(http://b.vimeocdn.com/ts/311/568/311568249_640.jpg)
Quote from: duccarlos on November 26, 2013, 01:53:02 PM
It's also a mute point since it's being sold in Europe. IIRC ethanol is still not mandatory on that side of the world.
First of all the tanks in Europe and other parts of the world are PEX, and not the dreaded PA-6 nylon.
PEX does not exhibit the property of absorbing water.
Ethanol actually has little to do with it.
I am partial to the 'small' Ducatis, the M620/S2R800 . . . since they can be ridden hard and are forgiving you can be the last in line in a group of liter bikes and in the twisty parts you'll lead or be close to leading the group . . .
the M695, is OK, but, it was the first one to have O2 sensors and that made it 'a bit odd' to ride as smooth as the M620/S2R800 . . . but, the same applies to it as the above, small "slow" bike that can be ridden hard
My S2R1000 was great. [thumbsup]
Quote from: BTF/PTM on November 26, 2013, 03:49:13 AM
For starters, due to my own personal preference, I've been looking at S*R models for the adjustable suspension and the single-sided-swingarm models.
Also trying to compare apples to apples as much as possible, I've done some reading about the S2R1000 versus the S4R. It really seems like the S2R1000 is a more suitable street and day-ride bike than the S4R, it seems like the 4 needs to spend all its time wound up high to take advantage of the power. I've also read that the 2 has a more usable torque band as a result of not being so high strung. The bike I end up with will be used mostly for road and spirited twisty roads, with occasional track days, so something with a usable power band is important.
It's a tricky point to understand without riding them, and it is not all about "power". The S4s make similar power at similar revs to S2s of the same size, but on the S4s the power keeps on increasing after 7500rpm all the way to 9000 or 9500, whereas on the S2s it tails off pretty quickly. So one question is whether you will run it past 7500 often enough to justify the extra expense of an S4.
There is a secondary aspect to this, however, which is more connected with feel than power. The S2s won't have much more power down low (i.e. on a dyno) but IMO they feel more responsive down there, because the intake system is a bit smaller diameter. I won't go into the fluid mechanics, but you will
feel this as more grunt. The upside with the S4 is a sense of having more headroom: you feel like you are using less of the engine's potential when just cruising along, and especially when cruising along at 85mph or more.
Add that up and the S2s tend to feel better in the city and at least as good on tight twisty roads, while those who like the S4s enjoy the way they feel on the open road and when the curves open up a bit.
So, "spirited twisty roads"? Depends a bit on just how twisty. Occasional track days? Again, will it be slow, twisty tracks or fast, open tracks - and how fast will you be?
Quote from: BTF/PTM on November 26, 2013, 03:49:13 AM
Another question for the experts is, in regard to any used Monster, assuming proper maintenance and having been well cared for, is a bike with 10-15k miles on it a safe bet mechanically? It sounds like it is, hearing what you guys have said about bikes that finally after 40k miles need a fresh engine. That's another reason that I've read a bit more about the S2R1000, the fact that its engine is (based on the reviews) based on the very well-proven, robust engine layout that's been in use forever.
Are there any folks here who can vouch for the S*R models? Anyone who wouldn't vouch for them?
IMO, 10-15K miles will be nicely run-in. I'm at 53,000km on my S4Rs (34K miles) and I know a senior member of this site has much more on his. I think the essential mechanicals on S2s and S4s are very durable. The S4s cost more for valve jobs, but the main issue with mine has been with the radiator: the original and its replacement have sprung leaks in the same place from poor design mixed with vibration. From talking to repairers and seeing the odd thread, this is a widespread issue with Duc radiators as the mileage adds up. If you can find a good repairer, they are repairable cost-effectively, but it's irritating and Ducati wants an arm and a leg for new spares. Obviously the S2s don't have them. The other annoyance has been Ohlins fork seals. Think I'm on my fourth set in six years.
So ... what sort of performance do you want, and how much will you feel comfortable paying for it in terms of dollars and care? Possibly your key quesitons.
My S2R800 has a mere 40k miles... I don't plan on rebuilding it anytime soon.
Valve checks are easy (easier than the Zook) and will be easier with the latest batch of mods.
It leaks less oil than my Suzuki, and the tank has only swollen a little (soon to be remedied).
I have ridden it full throttle through mountain passes and been surprised at the comments I've gotten from riders of bigger Ducs.
Hi guys,
Thanks yet again, first of all!
I've looked at several more models now, from the new 695 to an older 700 (somewhere in that displacement range), to the R models. Except for the weight differences, and probably this was to be expected since they're all monsters, they feel pretty similar. Obviously, they got progressively heavier (straddling and shifting the bike around) as the number got higher.
One of the shops also had a former amateur Ducati racer as an owner, so he had all kinds of cool information, from bike behavior to maintenance to mods. He gave a thumbs-up to the S2R models as well, compared to the S4 models, pointing out various things about the progression of the S4R as it's changed.
That same shop has an '08 S2R1000 in black with the white offset stripe, 14k miles and passes all the standard inspection & paperwork tests. The price is even comparable to the US cost of the same bike, and the one thing stopping me from goin for it is the fact that I can't test ride it. Frikkin winter...
Quote from: BTF/PTM on November 26, 2013, 03:49:13 AM
Are there any folks here who can vouch for the S*R models? Anyone who wouldn't vouch for them?
I'm sure I'll have more questions later, but that's enough for now. Thanks again, guys, all feedback is welcome!
Just sold my 2006 S2R-1000 which had 23K on the clock and never gave me any problems with the exception of the kickstand sensor going out and the expanding fuel tank which was replaced under warranty twice.
I still think it was the best looking of all the Monsters, but in the end I kept my 2012 for the ABS which I am reluctant to live without.