I think it was fate, as I was browsing around the 'web looking for a certain something...found it, along with the rest of it.... The beginning of a 1996 900SS part out by a dude that's local to me, Mark from WoundedDuc.net. Gave me an offer I couldn't refuse, $600 for a mostly complete, SUPER clean engine with 14k original miles. And since a certain company of asshats pulled my heads and jugs off anyway, leaving me with a fukn basket case of unorganized hardware ( [bang] ) I sez why the F not I'll start over and do a better job of it this time, with a better product. Spent all day driving to central OH to pick it up and bring it back.
I'm also going to document the crap out of the swap this time with lots and lots of pics, something I did a sucky job of my last build thread, and enlist my good friend and former Porsche/Audi tech to play a bigger role. There's a few mistakes I'm embarrassed to admit to that I don't wish to repeat.
I will do JE standard bore high comps, and a lightened flywheel as well this time. I would appreciate anyone who has this combo to chime in and tell me a little about how they like it.
Leaning toward the Fast Frank flywheel for $100, both for the cost savings as well as a less dramatic experience. If anyone would like to tell me why I should go with a Nichols or another "ultra light" brand instead I am all ears. The FFFW is 2.6 lbs, about a 50% reduction. The Nichols weighs well under 1 lb which is considerably more dramatic. I'm probably gonna run a standard clutch and either put my Ducabike slipper in the classifieds or shelf it for my future Streetfighter. Orrr...stick with it, as a slipper combined with a light flywheel sounds really intriguing. My riding style is...kind of @ssholish. (err.. hooliganish? [cheeky]) I like goosing the throttle... doing wheelies... and going fast from light to light. That's why I think I'll enjoy the light flywheel.
I really don't wanna jack this up folks...the very best resources for installing the pistons (squish, proper clearances, etc) and retarding timing via the flywheel are highly appreciated. I think I have this covered with Brad Black and Chris Kelly's various write ups but these 2 are WAY smarter than me, so some "for dummies" references would be great. Otherwise I intend this to be more of a documentary than anything else hence the "Accessories and mods" section.
I'll update tomorrow with some pics of my new-to-me engine. 'tanks ya'all.
Yipee! I will be watching this one.
I dont know the weight difference between the Nichols and Yoyodyne flywheels. My M900 bike has an oem flywheel machined down to 900gm. A previous bike of mine (SL900) had a DP flywheel which looked identical to the Yoydyne (someone will confirm that or not).
The DP flywheel was alloy and significantly lighter. Both have FCRs and hi comp pistons, but with well tuned and balanced carbs, and tuned ignition maps (Igmitech), they run quite smoothly.
The Nichols flywheel looks possibly lighter again. I think there is a used one for sale by Motowheels.
Maybe a fat flywheel helps hide rough tuning, so I would opt for a tuned ignitech unit and careful, patient carb tuning.
So go for it I reckon.
High comps and a light flywheel will increase engine braking which some like and some hate, so dont sell the slipper clutch without trying it.
A glutton for punishment you are... ;D
http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=T11502 (http://www.yoyodyneti.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=T11502)
http://nicholssportbikes.com/products/NFLYCARB90_98.html (http://nicholssportbikes.com/products/NFLYCARB90_98.html)
http://nicholssportbikes.com/products/NFLYCARB98.html (http://nicholssportbikes.com/products/NFLYCARB98.html)
I just ordered that Nichols from MW, it was marked down to $120. I can't resist a bargain, thanks for the tip Koko!
Good luck with it all! [thumbsup]
I have a 2000 900ssie that I am tearing down to put the engine into my 95 900sp.
Just thought of something.. would it be possible to retard my timing for the high comps simply by moving the metal pickup on this Nichols flywheel, and if so, how?
Dont mess with it, dont mess with ignition pick ups either.! [laugh]
Just get a preprogramed Ignitech and plug it in. There are people here who can suggest a safe set of numbers to use for a nice, progressive advance curve.
lol, thanks for the vote of confidence!! haha.
I'm still a bit confused tho, I can't change the ignition timing on my bike with the Ignitech bc I don't have TPS or MAP...you and Brad are altering the advance curve with it, and that achieves the same desired effect? I get how retarding the timing will reduce or eliminate knock/ping but I still don't quite understand what you're suggesting I have the Ignitech do....explain it like I'm an idiot, because I pretty much am. I'm still trying to absorb Brad's article on it.
I was just trying to give you the best, easiest option. ;D
I would just program a unit now without messing with pick ups, etc. Brad explored the aspects of the oem ignition system to understand how it works and the tuning parameters. He was doing the science, documenting the process and sharing the knowledge. We all benefit from the outcome.
The Ignitech unit can be programed via laptop with the right software to alter the ignition curve. If your unit came with a disc you can do it, if not, the vendor may have the software. You dont need a TPS. A TPS offers extra ignition tuning dimensions, but dont worry about it. My carbs dont have a TPS and most FCRs on Ducatis dont.
I would suggest getting the unit programed for a hi comp motor by someone on the forum with the correct software. They can set the rev limiter, etc.
Besides retarding the max advance, the ignition curve can be made more gradual. Because the oem curve maxes out early at low revs, the curve ramps up real quick which is too much for a high comp motor.
Someone might have charts.
Anyway, a good ignition map (and fuel) will protect your motor and improve performance.
You can custom map the ignition to suit the motor mods as they evolve. Someone up there will be able to do that for your unit for low$$ or beer while your motor is built.
[popcorn]
Flywheel's OTW.
(http://motowheels.com/images/F88081064.jpg)
Pistons...Would have liked to give a sponsor the biz but they're insanely cheap (JE for 900, $250/std or big bore!!) on eBay. Sorry but that's $70, and I need to buy useless crap like this with the savings...a DP alloy "spoiler"? to match my DP alloy fender ;D
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Brand-New-Ducati-Performance-Monster-alloy-nose-chin-under-engine-969335AAA-/00/s/MTAxN1gxMjM2/z/2I0AAMXQWzNSjaL9/$_57.JPG)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/602032806_tp.jpg)
(http://www.ducati-upnorth.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8863&d=1358589314)
The creeper van just got bondo'd and is getting hit with gloss black, prob gonna do my Monster while I'm at it. The matte/flat is gettin old.
How about a bare metal tank?
Quote from: memper on November 27, 2013, 04:15:26 AM
How about a bare metal tank?
That would look fackin awesome with my brushed alloy fender and new brushed alloy chin fairing. Hit it with some matte clear and that's it? whatcha say about that DP?
Prob is I used rattlecan self etching primer on the tank when I sprayed it, and lordy is that stuff HARD to remove. It laughed at aircraft stripper when I tried using it.
Quote from: ducpainter on November 27, 2013, 04:18:56 AM
It's been done before.
And so has paint. But that don't stop anybody ;)
DP loves paint like Hank Hill loves propane...ya best watch yer tongue lol
Quote from: Buck Naked on November 27, 2013, 05:04:29 AM
That would look fackin awesome with my brushed alloy fender and new brushed alloy chin fairing. Hit it with some matte clear and that's it? whatcha say about that DP?
Prob is I used rattlecan self etching primer on the tank when I sprayed it, and lordy is that stuff HARD to remove. It laughed at aircraft stripper when I tried using it.
The one I'm familiar with was powdercoated clear.
It's a cool look. My issue is how does it hold up?
pm Grrrrly (sp) and ask her
Oh, I forgot about Grrrly's bike. One of my fave Monsters on this board and a big inspiration for my own mods.
I'll always have black motorcycles tho, I couldn't imagine otherwise. Maybe red and black.
Is your tank alloy ? Hard to cover up if so. Congrats on the engine, HC'S & light flywheel will be perfect !
Quote from: ducpainter on November 27, 2013, 06:22:33 PM
The one I'm familiar with was powdercoated clear.
It's a cool look. My issue is how does it hold up?
pm Grrrrly (sp) and ask her
As a former steel sculptor, we would oil our pieces that would be left out doors. They lost their luster but they never rusted.
Back on a bobber I had built I considered using gun bluing but went with Super Spec instead.
Quote from: memper on November 29, 2013, 07:25:05 PM
As a former steel sculptor, we would oil our pieces that would be left out doors. They lost their luster but they never rusted.
Back on a bobber I had built I considered using gun bluing but went with Super Spec instead.
Are you suggesting oiling a bare tank to prevent rust?
I'm just suggesting that there are many ways metal can be treated with varying aesthetic effects.
My professor would rub his steel work with different patinas (+ a blowtorch) and they would turn beautiful shades of browns, greens and blues. He'd then clear coat them to stand up to weathering.
Quote from: memper on November 30, 2013, 05:02:11 PM
I'm just suggesting that there are many ways metal can be treated with varying aesthetic effects.
My professor would rub his steel work with different patinas (+ a blowtorch) and they would turn beautiful shades of browns, greens and blues. He'd then clear coat them to stand up to weathering.
I guess the 'varying aesthetic effects' is what gets me. My challenge has always been to prevent surface oxidation and promote paint adhesion.
It's all about what the individual wants in any case.
Quote from: ducpainter on November 30, 2013, 05:10:55 PM
I guess the 'varying aesthetic effects' is what gets me. My challenge has always been to prevent surface oxidation and promote paint adhesion.
It's all about what the individual wants in any case.
Some folks rust metal on purpose.
;D
Quote from: Speeddog on November 30, 2013, 05:18:47 PM
Some folks rust metal on purpose.
;D
For sure but well kept guns don't rust. But then again who wants to lube their tank every month, lol.
Anyways, where's our friggin updates. I'm jealous.
Quote from: Speeddog on November 30, 2013, 05:18:47 PM
Some folks rust metal on purpose.
;D
It's just 'wrong' I tell ya. ;)
Quote from: memper on November 30, 2013, 08:42:33 PM
For sure but well kept guns don't rust. But then again who wants to lube their tank every month, lol.
Anyways, where's our friggin updates. I'm jealous.
It's gonna be a slooooowww thread, as broke as I am. Damn Christmas. Anyone wanna buy parts from my old 900 mill? I'll sell the crank and V heads fo' cheap.
Quote from: memper on November 30, 2013, 08:42:33 PM
For sure but well kept guns don't rust. But then again who wants to lube their tank every month, lol.
Anyways, where's our friggin updates. I'm jealous.
Or my inner thighs and crotch :P
Dont forget the heavy duty engine studs.
Quote from: koko64 on December 01, 2013, 11:14:28 PM
Dont forget the heavy duty engine studs.
Man, I was really hoping to avoid that. From what I've read that problem was in the earlier 900's, these are not the stainless steel one, you think that's really necessary?
I would check the part numbers for your model motor with the forum to be sure. Guys here will know. If they are the same as the hi tensile 996 studs you should be ok (part no. retro fit #####12B ). If they are the slightly improved studs for mid 90s monsters they may not be enough. Check this out carefully and err on the side of caution. After what you've been through, if a stud breaks you'll set your bike on fire!
Quote from: koko64 on December 02, 2013, 10:16:30 AM
I would check the part numbers for your model motor with the forum to be sure. Guys here will know. If they are the same as the hi tensile 996 studs you should be ok (part no. retro fit #####12B ). If they are the slightly improved studs for mid 90s monsters they may not be enough. Check this out carefully and err on the side of caution. After what you've been through, if a stud breaks you'll set your bike on fire!
I don't know if I've ever heard or read of a stud breaking past the '93 SS's. I think that was the same time frame oil galley plugs were an issue. If I end up going the 944 route I will upgrade the studs for certain though. Might decide to regardless but god damn sh*t is starting to add up.
Quote from: Buck Naked on December 02, 2013, 10:48:51 AM
I don't know if I've ever heard or read of a stud breaking past the '93 SS's. I think that was the same time frame oil galley plugs were an issue. If I end up going the 944 route I will upgrade the studs for certain though. Might decide to regardless but god damn sh*t is starting to add up.
welcome to the party
My 95 Monster broke one, flush at the case.
The ones Chris sells come recommended, and I guess $100 is cheap insurance...
Quote from: koko64 on December 02, 2013, 11:59:51 AM
My 95 Monster broke one, flush at the case.
Ouch
Were you able to dig it out?
It took a week [bang].
Quote from: koko64 on December 02, 2013, 12:11:13 PM
It took a week [bang].
better than not at all.
you got the stub out without ruining the threads or are you using an insert?
Mine are the black ones, which apparently was Ducati's second revision. Anyone know the failure rate for these?
what would happen to me, is I'd snap them INSIDE the case trying to remove them. [roll]
[laugh]
Your Porsche buddy can do it while you drink beer [thumbsup]. Mine came out no problem using the double nut method.
Threads were buggered. Broke cobalt drill bits and Easiouts!. Studs were very hard, but brittle if you know what I mean. Out came the die grinder [evil]. It was that or splitting the cases and spark erosion.
Wouldnt hold torque with a helicoil, so Brad came to the rescue with a Timesert. Dark days.
My buddy is being a flake so I'm gonna be on my own here. I don't have a properly heated space so this is gonna suck ballz.
I'm gonna go with the big bore...M944SS has such a nice ring to it ;D. I found a company in CA who has a contract with Millenium; I am trading in my old jugs for a pair of bored and nikasiled jugs matched to 94mm pistons for only $750 shipped. While I'm waiting on that to be done I guess I'll tear this thing down to the bare frame...
I've been broke and cold all winter. Aviz from the forum has my engine torn apart to do the galley plug, and refresh anything else in there that needs it like bearings and such.
Finally got some cash flow coming in and picked this up. I just couldn't resist a brand new frame that is designed to fit the engine I already have. But now I don't know what color scheme to go with...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/730438205_o.jpg?nc=72)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/730438211_o.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/730438185_o.jpg)
[clap] Bloody hell mate, that's not cash flow that is a whole bank job!! [laugh]
Very nice.
Didn't get any of the IMA stuff, fell in love with the Cycle Cat billet instead. But I got lots more parts for this build.
NOS speedometer...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/709771169_o.jpg?nc=870)
NOS SBK brake master...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/741240207_o.jpg?nc=407)
NOS oil cooler...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/645860392_o.jpg?nc=563)
NOS left switch gear...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/594638674_o.jpg?nc=684)
NOS swingarm to match my NOS frame...
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/6/3/3/5/7/6/webimg/741470825_o.jpg?nc=49)
NOS Cycle Cat upper triple...
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/50kAAOxyOlhS8V48/$_57.JPG)
And new Cycle Cat clip ons directly from Chris who may be the coolest dude I've ever bought parts from. I'm on the road trying to earn back the $ I spent on all this crap...it'll be waiting for me...can't wait to open all the boxes :D
[thumbsup]