On my 1600GT i have just added engine protection bars after find out a drop can mean thousands in repairs. Which got me thinking about my Monster. Do people add protection to protect the bike from a driveway drop? If so, what is recommended - frame sliders?
i use speedy moto frame and axle...
I have frame slider on my bike, and I personally highly recommend it.
A few months ago I had a slow speed drop. The drop broke the gear shifter toe peg, foot peg, scratch the handlebar tip, and scratch and bent the frame slider. If I didn't have a frame slider, the fuel tank cover would have been damaged too, and it would cost me approximatelly an additional $1000 to replace the cover.
Few things from my perspective, living in NYC my bike has been on its side more times than i have fingers. Also had 2 medium speed low side, and 1 high speed low side
1) Fork sliders are almost useless. The only time i ever had a scratch on my fork was when i had a high speed low side and slide for 100+ feet on the track and went into a gravel pit. Not saying they dont work, but in most situations they wont touch. I had clip ons at the time (no rise)
2) Sliders are only useful sometimes. I have had 3 different slider systems. I've gone down on all three of em. The old style Speedymotos were pretty much useless in a parking lot drop. THe handlebars took the brunt of it. The rizoma ones were great because you could set them about 3 inches lower than the mounting point and thus actually changed the angle the bike sat when they hit. However, in the event of a low slide they rotated and became again useless, they were smashed up and so were my clip ons.
my Cycle cat sliders on the otherhand, being something like 8" long just BARELY touches the ground. I got backed up on (over the kickstand side) and they were just resting against the ground, but not after my handle cars ate shit. Again my handlebar takes most of the hit.
What i think ducati should do, is to have a much larger steering stop and provide stronger thicker handlebars. The steering stop and the handlebar would take the brunt of it which means your switches dont get crushed and you dont have to have funky looking sliders.
Quote from: He Man on January 23, 2014, 02:05:34 PM
What i think ducati should do, is to have a much larger steering stop and provide stronger thicker handlebars. The steering stop and the handlebar would take the brunt of it which means your switches dont get crushed and you dont have to have funky looking sliders.
Not being an engineer I would imagine someone else may have a a better answer to this than myself. However, I would think that doing what you suggest would remove a "crumple zone" and perhaps transmit more energy into the steering hear and or frame. Perhaps leading to much more expensive damage.
I have my own school of thought on sliders and why I don't have any. My bike is insured to the teeth.
I am an engineer actually and if we wanted to get technical.....
The steering stop is a very short piece, and it takes a sudden dynamic load (the acceleration of the steering stop bolt). The large amount of force (or load) causes it to undergo plastic deformation (plastic deformation means it deforms and stays that way, much like folding over a plastic fork, it wont go back to its original shape) because the force over the small cross sectional area is rather high (or a high amount of stress. When dealing with deformation, its always a case of stress and not force). The solution is to decrease the load (dont drop the bike) or increase the area (make the piece physically larger), or just change the location of the steering stop, but thats another story.
If you increase the depth of the steering stop, you increasing the resistance to bending (called the moment of interia)
Since the amount of force that is applied to the steering stop doesnt change (its caused by the bike falling over, crashing etc, not the size of the steering stop) youve made a piece that can take a larger amount of force with out Plastic deformation.
In terms of net energy, there is an amount of force the steering stop will take, and the amount it will transmit through the weld onto the head tube. Since the piece is now welded to a larger part of steering tube, the force is also dissipated over a larger area as well (in terms of stress)
What are the modes of failure? Rupture of the steel casing around the steering tube. But the frame is most likely made with a ductile steel and rupture wont occur with out an obscene amount of force (think bike endoing over it self several times over). due to the stiffness of a larger steering stop, your handbars would likely bend before the steering tube breaks, or everything just vibrates like hell. THere is a degree of flex built into the frame already. because if it was infinitely stiff, any bump would transmit all the way to the end and id assume it would be a very scary ride. You need deformation as a means of energy dissipation.
So you could definitely be right that it will transmit more energy to the steering tube, but i dont see it being anything significant. I could be terribly wrong on my assumed strength of the steering tube though)
hopefully this helps you understand my reasoning behind it.
I dont have numbers for you, but from the people ive spoken to about how the ducati frames are made, WSBK riders ahve apparently flipped bikes end over end and theres not as much damage to the steering tube as you would assume. There are parts of the bike that are much weaker, like the forks, handle bars, wheels etc. You need to SERIOUSLY crash teh make the beast with two backs out of it, and at that point, who cares, your bikes is trashed anyway. Im on the side of everyday bumps and grinds.
Its also not uncommon to remove the entirely on a track bike. the clip ons only stick a wee bit past teh frame work when fully turned anyway. I think they instead put the steering stop on the frame side as a bumper.
for the record, both of mine are bent and useless. :P
Ducati 1199s Panigale & CBR600RR Lowside On The Snake | Johnny5sWorld (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxudvk22w_4#)
@5mins, lets ask this guy, though i think he has bigger problems. :P lol
Sliders are not designed to save your bike in a low speed drop or a knock over, though they may and often do help. They are designed to allow your bike to slide in a crash, minimizing damage. Hence the name sliders. Delrin slides better than irregularly shaped metal parts.
I like the idea of sliders -they make sense to limit damage.
I wouldn't expect them, no matter the design, to eliminate the chance of damage.
Every crash, much like schizophrenic women, is an individual ;D
...and thus should be expected to do seemingly random and unpredictable acts of violence.
The best preperation for either schitzo wimmenz or crashes is avoidance of the problem alltogether...
In both cases quality rubber can be the difference between a fun time and disaster!
Oh the wisdom I've achieved over the years... [cheeky]
Quote from: howie on January 23, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
They are designed to allow your bike to slide in a crash, minimizing damage.
But often they catch on something, or dig in, and cause the bike to flip...increasing damage. Personally I only run them under bodywork, and if there isn't any bodywork then I don't run them.
I've never had sliders on a street bike, although I did have crash bars on my SMT.
I have heard that sometimes sliders can be a hazard in a low side as they *can catch on something sending the bike flipping. Probably not too common but I have heard it happening.
Sliders slide on asphalt. They dig into dirt. So yes, I have seen bikes tumble when they should not. Insurance is better than slider imo.
I am using these on my bikehttp://t-rex-racing.com/catalog.php?item=131 (http://t-rex-racing.com/catalog.php?item=131)
I had a slow speed drop and they did pretty well. My only complaint was that my handlebars (clip-ons) still took quite a hit. The bar bent and smacked my tank. Luckily all it did was chip the clear coat, but it was still pretty frustrating.
On the road, i dont think you slide into dirt to often. If you do ,its usually into a ditch, or up a slope and you arent going that fast (if you are going double or triple the speed limit, its probably going to be something that a slider wouldnt really matter for anyway).
As howie said, they are meant for sliding...on asphalt. For drops, they wont do much good at all.
Heres a pic of my handle bars after a 100+ foot slide about 40' on pavement, and the rest on dirt gravel grass
(http://kuixihe.com/gallery3/var/resizes/My%20Motorcycle/My-First-Rebuild/10.JPG?m=1346555729)
as you can see in this other pic, the front wheel caught air, so the slider picked up the load...just not so well on dirt. It slides pretty cleanly on pavement though
(http://kuixihe.com/gallery3/var/resizes/My%20Motorcycle/My-First-Rebuild/9.jpg?m=1346555721)
heres the full crash to proove skybarneys point. (skip to 7:27)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksg6DOVGNMA#t=7m27s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ksg6DOVGNMA#t=7m27s)
Video is private.
how about now?
Works now. Crashing-motorcycle is the worst noise in the world.
it sounds just like hte movies!!! SCREEEETCHHHH