Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Racing & Trackdays => Topic started by: triangleforge on April 22, 2014, 11:18:41 AM

Title: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: triangleforge on April 22, 2014, 11:18:41 AM
Bad news for Ducati Corsa in advance of the Argentina round: Cal's out with worse-than-originally-thought injuries to his hand:

http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/203490/1/cal-crutchlow-ruled-out-of-argentina.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/203490/1/cal-crutchlow-ruled-out-of-argentina.html)

And some background info on the new track:

http://www.motomatters.com/news/2014/04/22/the_termas_de_rio_hondo_circuit_in_argen.html (http://www.motomatters.com/news/2014/04/22/the_termas_de_rio_hondo_circuit_in_argen.html)

(http://motogpmatters.smugmug.com/MotoGP/2014/03-Argentina/i-25G3qwz/0/X3/Termascorners2014-X3.jpg)
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Speeddog on April 22, 2014, 12:31:34 PM
I'm still trying to wrap my head around this, partial quote from Crutchlow:

“Unfortunately I'm still feeling too much pain in my right hand, "

I suspect that's like a normal person saying:

"My make the beast with two backsing hand is on fire! Hand me that cleaver so I can hack it off and it'll hurt less!"
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 22, 2014, 01:38:55 PM
He's a hard nut.

Interesting looking track.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: duccarlos on April 22, 2014, 03:41:16 PM
The track looked pretty rough on the Marc VDS video. It was last year, so let's hope that everything was fixed.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: duccarlos on April 23, 2014, 06:06:47 AM
Potential for more tire drama this weekend

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2014/Termas+de+Rio+Hondo+provides+new+challenge+for+Bridgestone (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2014/Termas+de+Rio+Hondo+provides+new+challenge+for+Bridgestone)
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: triangleforge on April 25, 2014, 07:35:49 AM
FP1:

1.    Jorge Lorenzo    ESP   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1)    1m   42.804s    [Lap 16/18]   322km/h (Top Speed)
2.    Aleix Espargaro    ESP   NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha)    1m   43.285s    +0.481s   [12/13]   319km/h
3.    Alvaro Bautista    ESP   Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RC213V)    1m   43.637s    +0.833s   [16/19]   325km/h
4.    Andrea Iannone    ITA   Pramac Racing (Desmosedici)    1m   43.706s    +0.902s   [13/16]   322km/h
5.    Bradley Smith    GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)    1m   43.806s    +1.002s   [17/18]   322km/h
6.    Pol Espargaro    ESP   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)*    1m   43.961s    +1.157s   [16/19]   322km/h
7.    Stefan Bradl    GER   LCR Honda MotoGP (RC213V)    1m   44.055s    +1.251s   [15/20]   324km/h
8.    Andrea Dovizioso    ITA   Ducati Team (Desmosedici)    1m   44.096s    +1.292s   [13/17]   322km/h
9.    Nicky Hayden    USA   Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R)    1m   44.333s    +1.529s   [17/18]   309km/h
10.    Valentino Rossi    ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1)    1m   44.502s    +1.698s   [14/18]   321km/h
11.    Scott Redding    GBR   Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RCV1000R)*    1m   44.763s    +1.959s   [13/18]   307km/h
12.    Michele Pirro    ITA   Ducati Team (Desmosedici)    1m   44.790s    +1.986s   [16/17]   316km/h
13.    Yonny Hernandez    COL   Pramac Racing (Desmosedici)    1m   44.889s    +2.085s   [11/16]   318km/h
14.    Marc Marquez    ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)    1m   45.103s    +2.299s   [3/16]   320km/h
15.    Hiroshi Aoyama    JPN   Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R)    1m   45.137s    +2.333s   [20/20]   311km/h
16.    Dani Pedrosa    ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)    1m   45.724s    +2.920s   [14/17]   323km/h
17.    Colin Edwards    USA   NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha)    1m   45.808s    +3.004s   [15/17]   313km/h
18.    Danilo Petrucci    ITA   IodaRacing Project (ART)    1m   46.008s    +3.204s   [10/16]   305km/h
19.    Michael Laverty    GBR   Paul Bird Motorsport (PBM-ART)    1m   46.167s    +3.363s   [12/14]   308km/h
20.    Mike Di Meglio    FRA   Avintia Racing (Avintia)*    1m   46.264s    +3.460s   [9/19]   307km/h
21.    Broc Parkes    AUS   Paul Bird Motorsport (PBM-ART)*    1m   46.896s    +4.092s   [14/16]   303km/h
22.    Hector Barbera    ESP   Avintia Racing (Avintia)    1m   47.027s    +4.223s   [14/17]   309km/h
23.    Karel Abraham    CZE   Cardion AB Motoracing (RCV1000R)    1m   47.037s    +4.233s   [11/16]   310km/h

Early reports say rear tire wear is going to be an issue...

Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Jester on April 25, 2014, 12:11:14 PM
MM smoking em in fp2.  Watching that kid ride never gets old.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: HotIce on April 25, 2014, 03:47:39 PM
Too much Honda this year.

1   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   325.0   1'39.313   
2   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   325.5   1'40.396   1.083 / 1.083
3   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   NGM Forward Racing   Forward Yamaha   320.3   1'40.566   1.253 / 0.170
4   6   Stefan BRADL   GER   LCR Honda MotoGP   Honda   325.8   1'40.891   1.578 / 0.325
5   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   328.4   1'41.042   1.729 / 0.151
6   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   323.8   1'41.303   1.990 / 0.261
7   44   Pol ESPARGARO   SPA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   321.8   1'41.368   2.055 / 0.065
8   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   322.5   1'41.395   2.082 / 0.027
9   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   323.8   1'41.533   2.220 / 0.138
10   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Pramac Racing   Ducati   323.9   1'41.924   2.611 / 0.391
11   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   GO&FUN Honda Gresini   Honda   325.8   1'42.029   2.716 / 0.105
12   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Energy T.I. Pramac Racing   Ducati   320.2   1'42.128   2.815 / 0.099
13   17   Karel ABRAHAM   CZE   Cardion AB Motoracing   Honda   317.2   1'42.348   3.035 / 0.220
14   5   Colin EDWARDS   USA   NGM Forward Racing   Forward Yamaha   312.5   1'42.608   3.295 / 0.260
15   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Drive M7 Aspar   Honda   311.0   1'42.621   3.308 / 0.013
16   8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Racing   Avintia   308.1   1'42.739   3.426 / 0.118
17   23   Broc PARKES   AUS   Paul Bird Motorsport   PBM   301.6   1'42.827   3.514 / 0.088
18   51   Michele PIRRO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   318.3   1'42.898   3.585 / 0.071
19   9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   IodaRacing Project   ART   306.6   1'43.106   3.793 / 0.208
20   63   Mike DI MEGLIO   FRA   Avintia Racing   Avintia   309.2   1'43.125   3.812 / 0.019
21   70   Michael LAVERTY   GBR   Paul Bird Motorsport   PBM   306.5   1'43.151   3.838 / 0.026
22   45   Scott REDDING   GBR   GO&FUN Honda Gresini   Honda   307.3   1'43.165   3.852 / 0.014
23   7   Hiroshi AOYAMA   JPN   Drive M7 Aspar   Honda   311.0   1'43.347   4.034 / 0.182

Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: triangleforge on April 26, 2014, 08:05:16 AM
FP3:
1.    Marc Marquez    ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)    1m   39.171s    [Lap 16/19]   325km/h (Top Speed)
2.    Dani Pedrosa    ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)    1m   39.330s    +0.159s   [16/19]   324km/h
3.    Valentino Rossi    ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1)    1m   39.458s    +0.287s   [18/21]   322km/h
4.    Aleix Espargaro    ESP   NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha)    1m   39.573s    +0.402s   [17/18]   321km/h
5.    Andrea Dovizioso    ITA   Ducati Team (Desmosedici)    1m   39.757s    +0.586s   [15/17]   325km/h
6.    Stefan Bradl    GER   LCR Honda MotoGP (RC213V)    1m   39.771s    +0.600s   [19/21]   325km/h
7.    Jorge Lorenzo    ESP   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1)    1m   39.782s    +0.611s   [17/21]   320km/h
8.    Andrea Iannone    ITA   Pramac Racing (Desmosedici)    1m   40.050s    +0.879s   [17/18]   324km/h
9.    Alvaro Bautista    ESP   Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RC213V)    1m   40.223s    +1.052s   [14/17]   325km/h
10.    Pol Espargaro    ESP   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)*    1m   40.422s    +1.251s   [10/15]   321km/h
11.    Bradley Smith    GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)    1m   40.575s    +1.404s   [16/23]   323km/h
12.    Yonny Hernandez    COL   Pramac Racing (Desmosedici)    1m   40.802s    +1.631s   [15/17]   321km/h
13.    Colin Edwards    USA   NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha)    1m   40.950s    +1.779s   [16/18]   314km/h
14.    Nicky Hayden    USA   Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R)    1m   41.142s    +1.971s   [19/20]   309km/h
15.    Scott Redding    GBR   Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RCV1000R)*    1m   41.193s    +2.022s   [15/19]   307km/h
16.    Michele Pirro    ITA   Ducati Team (Desmosedici)    1m   41.457s    +2.286s   [13/15]   315km/h
17.    Karel Abraham    CZE   Cardion AB Motoracing (RCV1000R)    1m   41.552s    +2.381s   [14/14]   310km/h
18.    Mike Di Meglio    FRA   Avintia Racing (Avintia)*    1m   41.904s    +2.733s   [14/15]   308km/h
19.    Broc Parkes    AUS   Paul Bird Motorsport (PBM-ART)*    1m   41.935s    +2.764s   [12/15]   302km/h
20.    Hiroshi Aoyama    JPN   Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R)    1m   41.958s    +2.787s   [17/20]   311km/h
21.    Danilo Petrucci    ITA   IodaRacing Project (ART)    1m   42.419s    +3.248s   [14/17]   304km/h
22.    Hector Barbera    ESP   Avintia Racing (Avintia)    1m   42.482s    +3.311s   [12/13]   309km/h
23.    Michael Laverty    GBR   Paul Bird Motorsport (PBM-ART)    1m   42.932s    +3.761s   [12/16]   305km/h

Top 10 - Combined practice times:
1.    Marc Marquez    ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)
2.    Dani Pedrosa    ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)
3.    Valentino Rossi    ITA   Yamaha Factory Racing (YZR-M1)
4.    Aleix Espargaro    ESP   NGM Mobile Forward Racing (FTR-M1)
5.    Andrea Dovizioso    ITA   Ducati Team (Desmosedici)
6.    Stefan Bradl    GER   LCR Honda MotoGP (RC213V)
7.    Jorge Lorenzo    ESP   Yamaha Factory Racing (YZR-M1)
8.    Andrea Iannone    ITA   Pramac Racing (Desmosedici)
9.    Alvaro Bautista    ESP   Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RC213V)
10.    Pol Espargaro    ESP   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: triangleforge on April 26, 2014, 11:11:07 AM
Marquez swaps the hard rear he's been using so far for a medium, and smokes the field by 0.7 of a second  :o

I do wonder if Espargaro & the Ducatis are going to wish they had access to the hard tire instead of the medium over the full length of the race.


Q2:
1.    Marc Marquez    ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)    1m   37.683s    [Lap 5/6]   327km/h (Top Speed)
2.    Jorge Lorenzo    ESP   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1)    1m   38.425s    +0.742s   [6/7]   322km/h
3.    Dani Pedrosa    ESP   Repsol Honda Team (RC213V)    1m   38.651s    +0.968s   [7/8]   325km/h
4.    Aleix Espargaro    ESP   NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha)    1m   38.794s    +1.111s   [6/7]   320km/h
5.    Andrea Dovizioso    ITA   Ducati Team (Desmosedici)    1m   38.856s    +1.173s   [5/6]   324km/h
6.    Valentino Rossi    ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1)    1m   38.949s    +1.266s   [6/8]   321km/h
7.    Bradley Smith    GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)    1m   38.958s    +1.275s   [8/8]   322km/h
8.    Andrea Iannone    ITA   Pramac Racing (Desmosedici)    1m   39.237s    +1.554s   [5/7]   325km/h
9.    Stefan Bradl    GER   LCR Honda MotoGP (RC213V)    1m   39.297s    +1.614s   [2/2]   323km/h
10.    Alvaro Bautista    ESP   Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RC213V)    1m   39.429s    +1.746s   [7/8]   325km/h
11.    Pol Espargaro    ESP   Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1)*    1m   39.822s    +2.139s   [2/8]   321km/h
12.    Nicky Hayden    USA   Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R)    1m   40.541s    +2.858s   [7/7]   310km/h

Q1:
13.    Scott Redding    GBR   Go&Fun Honda Gresini (RCV1000R)*    1m   40.238s   
14.    Colin Edwards    USA   NGM Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha)    1m   40.476s   
15.    Karel Abraham    CZE   Cardion AB Motoracing (RCV1000R)    1m   40.615s   
16.    Hiroshi Aoyama    JPN   Drive M7 Aspar (RCV1000R)    1m   40.616s   
17.    Yonny Hernandez    COL   Pramac Racing (Desmosedici)    1m   40.691s   
18.    Broc Parkes    AUS   Paul Bird Motorsport (PBM-ART)*    1m   40.981s   
19.    Michele Pirro    ITA   Ducati Team (Desmosedici)    1m   41.018s   
20.    Michael Laverty    GBR   Paul Bird Motorsport (PBM-ART)    1m   41.103s   
21.    Hector Barbera    ESP   Avintia Racing (Avintia)    1m   41.129s   
22.    Mike Di Meglio    FRA   Avintia Racing (Avintia)*    1m   41.267s   
23.    Danilo Petrucci    ITA   IodaRacing Project (ART)    1m   41.686s   
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: DarkMonster620 on April 27, 2014, 08:22:27 AM
Watching Moto2 live right now . . . just started :o
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: HotIce on April 27, 2014, 11:24:32 AM
Unless Yamaha finds some magic, this year Championship could be mathematically over at mid season  [roll]
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: DarkMonster620 on April 27, 2014, 11:48:27 AM
Quote from: HotIce on April 27, 2014, 11:24:32 AM
Unless Yamaha finds some magic, this year Championship could be mathematically over at mid season  [roll]


this . . . and JL is very very far in points . . .
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: ZLTFUL on April 27, 2014, 11:49:43 AM
Gotta say that I am starting to actually feel a little sorry for Stumpy McAlwaysABridesmaidNeverABride
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Jester on April 27, 2014, 02:17:55 PM
I had a feeling Marquez was toying with Lorenzo.  Its too bad Rossi got run off after the Bradl pass.  I think he would have been on the podium.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 27, 2014, 02:28:43 PM
At least Crazy Joe didn't do too bad.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: thought on April 27, 2014, 03:29:26 PM
Great opening laps, and too bad about that pass from Bradl on Rossi... not sure if he would have podiumed but it might have been close.

And damn... MM is just crazy right now.  I wonder if there is anything beside injury that is going to make this season a bit more interesting in terms of points.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: ab on April 27, 2014, 05:41:34 PM
No longer guessing podium position #1 anymore. 
Was hoping for Rossi to be on podium. I hope he keeps fighting.
Moto3 was just awesome!!  Fenati I thought would be penalized for the last corner last lap contact on miller.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 27, 2014, 05:44:32 PM
They won't touch him, he's Rossi's boy. ;)
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 27, 2014, 05:45:11 PM
Quote from: thought on April 27, 2014, 03:29:26 PM
Great opening laps, and too bad about that pass from Bradl on Rossi... not sure if he would have podiumed but it might have been close.

And damn... MM is just crazy right now.  I wonder if there is anything beside injury that is going to make this season a bit more interesting in terms of points.

+1 to all of the above.

I got real tired of seeing the Stoner parade but haven't yet grown weary of watching the kid spank the entire field.

It pissed me off in Moto 2 but now I can't help but have utmost respect  [bow_down]

Good goin' Crazy Joe! He's showing some real potential

I only like Pedro when he passes Lorenzo on the penultimate lap  [beer]
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: HotIce on April 27, 2014, 05:59:40 PM
The more I think about today race, the more it looks strange.
Clearly Lorenzo was The Cork, and Repsol's Honda had at least 0.5s/lap on him. Rossi was on Lorenzo's times.
Granted, Marquez kind of played with him today, but why wasn't Pedrosa closing on Marquez, why he was on the back of The Cork?
Pedrosa got The Cork in two laps, after Marquez took off, which suggests he could have gone much closer to Marquez.
Team orders?
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: lazylightnin717 on April 27, 2014, 06:12:17 PM
Pedrosa didn't start off well. He got caught up in traffic

I don't think any orders are needed for Marquez to win
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: derby on April 27, 2014, 08:16:05 PM
Quote from: ab on April 27, 2014, 05:41:34 PM

Moto3 was just awesome!!  Fenati I thought would be penalized for the last corner last lap contact on miller.

Quote from: koko64 on April 27, 2014, 05:44:32 PM
They won't touch him, he's Rossi's boy. ;)

i didn't think that move was what they were trying to make of it and the replays made it even look less so.

last lap, last corner, and he want for the hole and nobody crashed.

that said, fenati was given a point for "irresponsible riding causing danger to other competitors," so there's his warning.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 27, 2014, 08:20:58 PM
Yeah, just a warning will do, they're young. I never did anything wrong when I was young.. 8)
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: duccarlos on April 28, 2014, 07:17:16 AM
The first few laps looked almost like Moto2. I won't go as far as saying they were Moto3 like, because there wasn't that much rubbin. Bradl pushed Rossi off, but he was not on pace to keep up with the Hondas. I would not count out Lorenzo just yet. As we get into the European rounds, we should see the Yamahas get closer.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Triple J on April 29, 2014, 08:44:16 AM
Marquez is the man. Bad start, and still schooled everyone. Hopfully JLo and the rest can get him back once they return to Europe...looking right now like the only one that may be able to beat him is himself though.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: duccarlos on April 29, 2014, 01:37:41 PM
Quote from: Triple J on April 29, 2014, 08:44:16 AM
Marquez is the man. Bad start, and still schooled everyone. Hopfully JLo and the rest can get him back once they return to Europe...looking right now like the only one that may be able to beat him is himself though.

I don't necessarily agree. I just think he gets up to speed on unknown tracks quicker than the rest. The older guys should make it more interesting in the next few rounds.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: ducpainter on April 29, 2014, 02:07:06 PM
Quote from: duccarlos on April 29, 2014, 01:37:41 PM
I don't necessarily agree. I just think he gets up to speed on unknown tracks quicker than the rest. The older guys should make it more interesting in the next few rounds.
Dunno bro...He's the first rider in a while that has won from seventh place after the start.

All the 'players' have ridden at Quatar and Austin and he rode away from them.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Triple J on April 29, 2014, 02:59:02 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on April 29, 2014, 02:07:06 PM
Dunno bro...He's the first rider in a while that has won from seventh place after the start.


With relative ease  [bow_down]

If MM stays healthy, I don't think anyone stands a chance. He's more dominant right now than Stoner was in 2011.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Speeddog on April 29, 2014, 03:40:05 PM
2013 Jerez:

Pedrosa 1st
MM - 2.5 seconds behind
Lorenzo - 5 seconds behind Pedrosa

27 lap race

Pedro's going to have to be totally on his game to beat MM.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 29, 2014, 03:55:37 PM
Quote from: Triple J on April 29, 2014, 02:59:02 PM
With relative ease  [bow_down]

If MM stays healthy, I don't think anyone stands a chance. He's more dominant right now than Stoner was in 2011.

Stoner had Rossi at his peak to contend with, but we won't see that again. In light of that, unless George (or Yamaha) steps up to another level, I agree nothing but injury can stop him. Lorenzo looks to be at the very limit both physically and mentally. Right now I wish Stoner hadn't retired. The next few years could be like the Doohan years. Rossi won't break Ago's record, but MM could imo.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: duccarlos on April 29, 2014, 03:59:07 PM
I can see Pedrosa pulling an upset at Jerez. I doubt the Yamahas will be able to keep up with the Hondas.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Triple J on April 29, 2014, 04:03:55 PM
Quote from: koko64 on April 29, 2014, 03:55:37 PM
Stoner had Rossi at his peak to contend with, but we won't see that again. In light of that, unless George (or Yamaha) steps up to another level, I agree nothing but injury can stop him. Lorenzo looks to be at the very limit both physically and mentally. Right now I wish Stoner hadn't retired. The next few years could be like the Doohan years. Rossi won't break Ago's record, but MM could imo.

Rossi was on a Ducati in 2011 so zero threat...Stoner only had to deal with JLo and Pedrobot, and a little Dovi.

MM basically has the same challenge. I agree on JLo...MM is in his head. I too wish Stoner was still around. I think the 2 of them would have epic battles...although we'd have to listen to epic crying from Stoner due to MM's style.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 29, 2014, 04:37:56 PM
Pardon, I was thinking 2007. Ducati stopped Rossi breaking the record for sure imo. That and Simo's death broke his momentum.
Lets hope Pedro can do something at Jerez.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: HotIce on April 29, 2014, 06:55:41 PM
Quote from: koko64 on April 29, 2014, 03:55:37 PMRossi won't break Ago's record, but MM could imo.
If he races for the next 15 years, and he wins every single year, yes, it could break Ago's record  [roll]
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 29, 2014, 07:14:33 PM
Quote from: HotIce on April 29, 2014, 06:55:41 PM
If he races for the next 15 years, and he wins every single year, yes, it could break Ago's record  [roll]


He could in the Premier class regarding race wins.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: DarkMonster620 on April 29, 2014, 07:23:10 PM
MM worst enemy is himself and by trying to better himself he can get into trouble . . .
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: thought on April 29, 2014, 07:36:00 PM
Quote from: Darkmonster620 on April 29, 2014, 07:23:10 PM
MM worst enemy is himself and by trying to better himself he can get into trouble . . .

But at the same time, it seems that since he just doesnt know any better, he has figured out how he can push the bike a lot harder than everyone in the paddock thought you could.  He's riding the bike to the limit it can be ridden now vs what years of experience has taught him is the limit it can be raced at.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: DarkMonster620 on April 29, 2014, 07:51:33 PM
Quote from: thought on April 29, 2014, 07:36:00 PM
But at the same time, it seems that since he just doesnt know any better, he has figured out how he can push the bike a lot harder than everyone in the paddock thought you could.  He's riding the bike to the limit it can be ridden now vs what years of experience has taught him is the limit it can be raced at.
Yes, he might have figured out "HOW TO" . . . but, if he feels "over confident" he can push and push and he'll be OK, until that moment in time when . . .
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: derby on April 29, 2014, 08:44:25 PM
Quote from: HotIce on April 29, 2014, 06:55:41 PM
If he races for the next 15 years, and he wins every single year, yes, it could break Ago's record  [roll]


he's got 35 career wins (as of this posting) vs ago's 122. he could theoretically trump it in less than five seasons.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Speeddog on April 29, 2014, 08:52:56 PM
Has MM crashed this year in MotoGP?

IIRC, no.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: HotIce on April 30, 2014, 06:24:24 AM
Quote from: derby on April 29, 2014, 08:44:25 PM
he's got 35 career wins (as of this posting) vs ago's 122. he could theoretically trump it in less than five seasons.
For GOTA, people typically counts championships won, because those tell a MUCH better story, as they stretch over a long period of time, filtering stars from meteors.
You could possibly have the best bike for 4 years, maybe sneak through a time with not many rivals on your same bike, and collect a bunch of wins.
Doing that for 15+ years, possibly on different categories and bikes, is what better defines a GOTA.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: duccarlos on April 30, 2014, 06:26:53 AM
Quote from: derby on April 29, 2014, 08:44:25 PM
he's got 35 career wins (as of this posting) vs ago's 122. he could theoretically trump it in less than five seasons.

35? Do they count lower classes or just the top class?
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 06:41:45 AM
I was comparing premier class wins. iirc that was the record Rossi was aiming for. If he hadn't lost momentum, he would have come close. Someone will have the stats.. [popcorn]
I think MM has a chance if he stays healthy, chooses his bike carefully and stays motivated.

You could compare total wins in all classes or titles, which would be almost impossible to beat in the modern era. Only three classes now. Some argue that Ago won some of his titles on OHC 3 & 4 cylinders against single cylinder compressors (albeit with nice chassis), so therefore an uneven playing field.

It can open a whole can of worms as far as arguments go.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Triple J on April 30, 2014, 08:46:23 AM
Quote from: Darkmonster620 on April 29, 2014, 07:51:33 PM
Yes, he might have figured out "HOW TO" . . . but, if he feels "over confident" he can push and push and he'll be OK, until that moment in time when . . .

Everyone keeps saying this about MM...but I'm not so sure anymore. Sure, any racer can crash and get hurt, and MM is no different. BUT, I no longer think this is more likely for him than anyone else...I'd even say it is less likely.

He pushes harder than anyone, but I think he has much better feel and bike control than anyone as well. He also appears to be extremely smart and a very quick learner. He crashed something like 15 times last season...but only once in a race. That isn't a coincidence.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Triple J on April 30, 2014, 09:05:48 AM
Quote from: HotIce on April 30, 2014, 06:24:24 AM
For GOTA, people typically counts championships won, because those tell a MUCH better story, as they stretch over a long period of time, filtering stars from meteors.
You could possibly have the best bike for 4 years, maybe sneak through a time with not many rivals on your same bike, and collect a bunch of wins.
Doing that for 15+ years, possibly on different categories and bikes, is what better defines a GOTA.


GOAT = Greatest Of All Time

Anyway, you can't directly compare championships because Ago won double championships in 5 seasons. That isn't even possible now, no matter how good a rider is. Take away 5 of those championships because they're double, and someone just needs to now win 10 to match. MM already has 3, in 3 different classes.

Rossi has 9, 7 in the premier class. Looks like he won't match Ago's number, or his overall win total. I'd still consider Rossi the GOAT though, due to the bikes he had to ride to win his championships. He's won championships on 125cc, 250cc, 500cc, 990cc, & 800 cc machines. If different categories and bikes is your criteria, then Rossi has it hands down.

...and MM will have a tough time beating Rossi's accomplishments, despite the fact that he might be better, as winning on that variety of machinery is no longer possible.

Just goes to show...it's hard to compare riders over different eras.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: 1.21GW on April 30, 2014, 10:29:25 AM
Quote from: Triple J on April 30, 2014, 09:05:48 AM
Anyway, you can't directly compare championships because Ago won double championships in 5 seasons. That isn't even possible now, no matter how good a rider is.
It wouldn't happen, but is there anything in the rules today that says a rider can't ride in both the MotoGP and Moto2 races (obviously, on appropriate bikes)?

Just curious.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: duccarlos on April 30, 2014, 10:30:51 AM
You also have to look at the talent that's coming up the lower classes. Aleix would be up there with MM if he was riding the other Repsol. Iannone is holding his own on the shit Duc. Vinales won on his 2nd race in Moto2.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: derby on April 30, 2014, 02:23:08 PM
Quote from: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 06:41:45 AM
I was comparing premier class wins. iirc that was the record Rossi was aiming for. If he hadn't lost momentum, he would have come close. Someone will have the stats.. [popcorn]


ago had 68 wins in the premier class.

rossi (as of this post) has 80 premier-class wins (13 in 500gp and 67 in motogp).

rossi's been chasing ago's all-time record for a while.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Spidey on April 30, 2014, 02:34:51 PM
I'm pretty sure Rossi had sex with WAAAAAY more people than Ago.  GOAT.   [thumbsup]
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 05:44:20 PM
I don't know about that. That's the other championship. [laugh]
Ago did pretty well from what they say (especially in the 60's-70's) ;D.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: 1.21GW on April 30, 2014, 06:47:31 PM
Quote from: Spidey on April 30, 2014, 02:34:51 PM
I'm pretty sure Rossi had sex with WAAAAAY more people than Ago.  GOAT.   [thumbsup]

Without knowing anything about their personal lives, I would disagree simply based on the fact that Ago raced in the 60s and 70s.  Free love era wins over modern media era.  8)
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: DarkMonster620 on April 30, 2014, 07:10:09 PM
â†' plus Uscio is always around . . . ;D
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 07:14:51 PM
Quote from: Darkmonster620 on April 30, 2014, 07:10:09 PM
â†' plus Uscio is always around . . . ;D

[laugh]
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Spidey on April 30, 2014, 07:15:38 PM
Quote from: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 05:44:20 PM
Ago did pretty well from what they say (especially in the 60's-70's) ;D.

Ago may have the overall numbers (which I do not concede), but Rossi has way more premiere class "wins."
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: HotIce on April 30, 2014, 08:15:41 PM
Quote from: Spidey on April 30, 2014, 02:34:51 PM
I'm pretty sure Rossi had sex with WAAAAAY more people than Ago.  GOAT.   [thumbsup]
You know, it is likely the contrary  ;D
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 09:31:54 PM
I 'spose we'll know in a few years time if MM is on the right trajectory to challenge those guys.

IMO premier class wins count the most, but that's me and probably the wrong attitude. I'm working on the assumption that the big hp bikes are harder to ride.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: 1.21GW on April 30, 2014, 09:50:06 PM
Quote from: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 09:31:54 PM
I'm working on the assumption that the big hp bikes are harder to ride.

If harder to ride is a criterion, 500 two-stroke wins should count double anything else.  Never personally been on anything like one, but tradition has it they were untamed beasts.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: Triple J on April 30, 2014, 09:53:50 PM
Quote from: 1.21GW on April 30, 2014, 09:50:06 PM
If harder to ride is a criterion, 500 two-stroke wins should count double anything else.  Never personally been on anything like one, but tradition has it they were untamed beasts.

I agree...and Rossi is the only one of the 3 being discussed to ride one. I think MM could though.
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: derby on May 01, 2014, 03:27:23 AM
Quote from: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 09:31:54 PM
I 'spose we'll know in a few years time if MM is on the right trajectory to challenge those guys.

he's more or less tracking rossi right now, but with an "extra" season in 125s and an "extra" championship in moto2.

he's got what it takes. the real question is who will come up from moto3 and moto2 to challenge him?

Quote from: koko64 on April 30, 2014, 09:31:54 PM
IMO premier class wins count the most, but that's me and probably the wrong attitude. I'm working on the assumption that the big hp bikes are harder to ride.

http://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics/Statistics (http://www.motogp.com/en/Results+Statistics/Statistics)

Results for:
1st place finishes in MotoGP/500cc at All tracks in All years, for riders from All countries

80   Valentino Rossi   ITALY
68   Giacomo Agostini   ITALY
54   Mick Doohan   AUSTRALIA
38   Casey Stoner   AUSTRALIA
37   Mike Hailwood   GREAT BRITAIN
31   Jorge Lorenzo   SPAIN
31   Eddie Lawson   UNITED STATES
25   Kevin Schwantz   UNITED STATES
25   Dani Pedrosa   SPAIN
24   Wayne Rainey   UNITED STATES
22   Geoff Duke   GREAT BRITAIN
22   John Surtees   GREAT BRITAIN
22   Kenny Roberts   UNITED STATES
20   Freddie Spencer   UNITED STATES
19   Barry Sheene   GREAT BRITAIN
18   Wayne Gardner   AUSTRALIA
15   Alex Criville   SPAIN
13   Randy Mamola   UNITED STATES
13   Max Biaggi   ITALY
11   Phil Read   GREAT BRITAIN
9   Loris Capirossi   ITALY
9   Sete Gibernau   SPAIN
9   Marc Marquez   SPAIN
Title: Re: MotoGP Argentina 2014 - Spoilers, and lots of them!
Post by: koko64 on May 01, 2014, 03:35:48 AM
Thanks Derby
Puts it all into perspective.
If MM can go for 10 years...
Really drives home how Stoner should have kept going.