The M10 "special screws". I'm back on the road working and can't measure...it's much appreciated. Replacing with a stainless M10 normal cap screw.
Thank you vurry much
The ones on the rocker ? Might be as easy to find them on a parts fiche as it is to get up in there.
Koko64 hooked me up, thanks. They're on the diagrams but the dimensions aren't stated. M10x60, I'm replacing them with stainless full thread.
Got em from McMaster Carr in one day, along with shiny new M10 stainless lock nuts. Turns out they are 28 partial thread and identical to OE 'cept maybe a MM longer. Perfect replacements.
Quote from: Buck Naked on June 11, 2014, 07:10:28 PM
Koko64 hooked me up, thanks. They're on the diagrams but the dimensions aren't stated. M10x60, I'm replacing them with stainless full thread.
I only measured the top one. I don't know the bottom dimensions.
They're the same.
Based on my biased Internet research this bolt has mostly clamping duties as opposed to requiring shear resistance. Any engineers care to share their thoughts on using an A 7 stainless bolt to replace the 8.8 ones currently used?
Glad they're the same.
Hi tensile I reckon.
Found this gem of a tirade from my Ducati totem, Chris Kelley;
"
There was a big "discussion" about this a couple years ago (can't remember which board exactly). IIRC, they were talking specifically about caliper bolts.
Yeah, I give up. People whose "industry" or "engineering degree" is more accurate than my 25 years on motorcycles have proven to be closed minded and completely disregard the results of real world use. I use stainless steel bolts anywhere on my motorcycle where I have to replace them (and the bolt is available in SS). Lots of racers I know do, too. Never ever heard of anyone on a motorcycle having a SS bolt break. Stainless is too spongy to break... I have had nuts (that were finger tight) fall off, leaving SS bolts in shear mode. Even these didn't break. One of the stainless bolts from the tailsection left an interesting impression on the rear wheel on my 916 after falling out ... it happened at a race weekend.
And anywhere means just that, ANYWHERE. If I have to replace lame deformable OEM hardware, I get in SS replacements. I have used them in these instances: caliper mounts, fork and triple clamping screws, tail section mounts, sidestand plate screws, rearset mounts, shock mount bolts, rotor mount screws*, engine cover screws. I use grease to lubricate the threads on all fasteners to prevent them from seizing. Unless there is a location that has proven to loosen during use, I don't use loctite.
If you lose sleep when your bike has SS bolts, that's great -- just keep the hysteria out of motorcycle forums. And I promise not to go to your industry and say it's ok to use SS bolts. OK?
Even though I may seem as closed minded as the propeller-heads, I actually read their arguments, reasoning, and attempts to employ logic and then incorporate that into my reality. The propeller-heads don't like stainless hardware because they also love using solvents like simple green. The chlorides in solvents attack SS fasteners, impairing their strength. As opined above, I agree that nearly everything on a motorcycle is so engineered that it is never an issue. And now I ban the use of simple green on vehicles in my shop. It will etch engine surfaces or paint anyway, so beyond the remote chance of causing an SS bolt to fail, it's good practice anyway.
BTW, I have on more than one occasion had a "metric grade 10.9 or higher" bolt fail on my own personal motorcycles and will never, ever replace a standard fastener with a bolt that isn't stainless or OEM. If it needs to be 10.9, the factory will put it there. These bolts are too rigid and therefore brittle when vibrated by a Ducati engine.
One of the screws was a M6x25 on my 916's clip-on. I saw the head of the cap screw laying on the lift and took a while to find it. The other one was a M6x16 (or 20) that was on a 900 valve cover. Since it was forward cylinder exhaust side, the oil pouring out was a great direction finder for the broken screw.
I have spent a few thousand $ from this web page.
:) Chris"
I would agree with Chris on that. I use stainless just about everywhere, except a few spots. I like Ti, but cant back it up with my wallet. Regarding the exceptions, it's also true that it is as much to do with me sleeping well. If you want to use stainless for the pivot bolts get quality you can trust. I have even seen fancy Ti bolts fail under stress due to poor quality. Working in the public service for 25 years has made me risk averse. [laugh]
I'm sure I saw Ti pivot bolts for sale from at least one of our sponsors.
Just sayin'. ;D
And then there's the opinion of LT (Desmo Times, http://www.desmotimes.com/ (http://www.desmotimes.com/)):
"I do NOT sell stainless alternatives. Axle pinch bolts are special bolts and shouldn't be replaced with inexpensive stainless bolts due to the torque/load on the bolt."
Quote from: koko64 on June 14, 2014, 04:55:26 PM
I'm sure I saw Ti pivot bolts for sale from at least one of our sponsors.
Just sayin'. ;D
Dude I'm already buying Ti chain adjuster bolts fer chrissakes. Yer killin me.
:P
Quote from: cayman s on June 14, 2014, 05:21:30 PM
And then there's the opinion of LT (Desmo Times, http://www.desmotimes.com/ (http://www.desmotimes.com/)):
"I do NOT sell stainless alternatives. Axle pinch bolts are special bolts and shouldn't be replaced with inexpensive stainless bolts due to the torque/load on the bolt."
Meh...L.T is an experienced wrench, sure, but his main job is military stuff. Far as I know he doesn't have an engineering background. Besides, if both opinions are equal I'm goin with the guy who endorses what I wanna do. :P
This bike is gonna be a borderline garage queen anyway...
I hear you cayman. That's "correct" also ;D
I am using non stainless "parts specific" bolts for the brake calipers, front discs, triple clamps, axel pinch bolts, etc. I am uneasy putting stainless there. Stainless goes most elsewhere. If a trusted sponsor is selling stainless bolts for brake parts and says the material is "rated" for the purpose, then I would try them. A decision is made in relation to what loads are on the part and the torque involved, where I bought the bolts and what peace of mind I'm after. Ever walked away from a job with an uneasy niggle in your guts? Is it irrational or is your experience trying to tell you something? When that happens I have to go back and change it. ;) Like Chris says , whatever lets you sleep at night. [laugh]
The level of risk management on my own bike might be a little more relaxed than for someone else, yet I'm very strict with my own bike. On a public forum I err on the very conservative side of safety first.
Quote from: Buck Naked on June 14, 2014, 06:43:09 PM
Dude I'm already buying Ti chain adjuster bolts fer chrissakes. Yer killin me.
:P
Meh...L.T is an experienced wrench, sure, but his main job is military stuff. Far as I know he doesn't have an engineering background. Besides, if both opinions are equal I'm goin with the guy who endorses what I wanna do. :P
This bike is gonna be a borderline garage queen anyway...
Ti is pretty [evil]
Yep, in the end we add up the info and make our decisions.
Quote from: koko64 on June 14, 2014, 07:00:04 PM
I hear you cayman. That's "correct" also ;D
I am using non stainless "parts specific" bolts for the brake calipers, front discs, triple clamps, axel pinch bolts, etc. I am uneasy putting stainless there.
Wow, you are conservative! especially regarding the pinch bolts on the triple, I don't think I've even ever seen anything but SS bolts on aftermarkets clamps.
The other areas (rotors/calipers) are where the bike literally screams for SS...looks sooooo much better.
I decided on a compromise...a Ti bolt for the upper pivot, stainless on the bottom. :)
[laugh]
Ti is so damn sneaky...it's like, $15 here, $25 there can't hurt...but there's a lot of bolts on motorcycles. [laugh]
Yeah, a mate went nuts on his bike and $800 later... :o
I'm happy to enable ;D