Hi all,
I'm trying to build the lightest '07 S2R 800 I can without BST wheels. I've done the following:
Rear end:
Ti axel nuts
Ti sprocket nuts
Quick change sprocket, 520 chain, 14t front sprocket
Alu flange
CNC Racing caliper carrier
Beringer alu caliper (440 grams - lighter than Brembo CNC caliper, but I'm sure there's a lighter caliper out there? Don't want to get into custom mounting, so it would have to fit the stock bolt pattern)
Braketech Iron rotor
Ti rotor bolts
Forged Marchesinis (Don't want BSTs or mag wheels - don't like the look of BSTs, and don't want the maintenance hassles of mag wheels)
Penski shock
Ti shock spring
Ti shock hardware
Ti swingarm pivot bolt
Chain guard delete
Plan to: replace stock height adjuster with aftermarket one
Front end:
TPO Alu axel
Ti axel nut
Ohlins R&T
Braketech rotor
Ti rotor bolts
Ti caliper bolts
Brembo four piston caliper (will upgrade to radial)
one caliper, one rotor delete
CNC Racing triple set
Beringer MCs with integrated reservoirs
CC Clipons
Ti steering nut
CF headlight wings
Body:
ETI Fuelcel tank
CF seat cowl
CNC Racing rearsets
Passenger peg delete
Passenger grab bar chop
Passenger peg mounting tab chop
Tail chop
Electric:
TPO kickstand switch eliminator
Integrated tail light
Earth X Lion battery
Plan to: Full Motogadget rewire, to include mini speedo
Motor:
Ti Arrow full system
Airbox delete, pod filters
Planning to: crank, flywheel, primary gear lightening, etc.
Am I missing anything obvious? I haven't weighted the bike yet, but I'm trying to get to around 360lb wet.
Diet and exercise
I admire your commitment to "light is right". [thumbsup]
I'll be following this tread closely. [popcorn]
The Nichols flywheels are reputedly the lightest. Some delete the airbox and run pods with velocity stacks, but this apparently requires extra tuning in most cases. Maybe a lightweight dry clutch conversion if it is a wet clutch model. Not straightforward from what I've read. Also a carbon headlight bucket and ring and carbon bars.
Be great to see the final weight.
Cheers.
Quote from: koko64 on June 28, 2014, 05:18:01 PM
I admire your commitment to "light is right". [thumbsup]
I'll be following this tread closely. [popcorn]
The Nichols flywheels are reputedly the lightest. Some delete the airbox and run pods with velocity stacks, but this apparently requires extra tuning in most cases.
Cheers.
Thanks!
I forgot to add that - yeah, I'm running pods. I've got an Arrow Ti full system as well. I also deleted the mirrors and front hugger.
I think I can cut around 10 lbs from the motor by lightening the gears and crank, and I hear there a few pounds lost if you rewire, especially if you use Motogadget stuff. Though I am in complete awe of Stradafab's craftsmanship and would love a Ti frame, I don't want to get into the headache of trying to title or insure a custom framed bike.
Maybe alloy adjustable cam pulleys (and you can get your cams dialled while you're at it), and carbon cam belt covers. Otherwise I got nothin', because you have covered just about everything. You might want to personal message Kopfjager, because he has also created a very light bike.
Cheers
What have you got for a pressure plate/clutch cover combo? Could shave off a couple of grams there.
And I don't know what, if anything, ever happened to it, but at one point Duc Stu was working on an aluminum rear subframe. Required chopping the frame just aft of the motor.
Stradafab titanium frame and exhaust.
Minor threadjack, how'd you get an ETI Fuelcel for the S2R? I had contacted them while ago when my last tank expanded and they said they are not making them for the S2R only for the older carb bikes.
Quote from: koko64 on June 29, 2014, 01:13:33 AM
Maybe alloy adjustable cam pulleys (and you can get your cams dialled while you're at it), and carbon cam belt covers. Otherwise I got nothin', because you have covered just about everything. You might want to personal message Kopfjager, because he has also created a very light bike.
Cheers
I've got some alloy pulleys installed [thumbsup] But no cf belt covers - I'll check those out.
Quote from: Buckethead on June 29, 2014, 07:19:34 AM
What have you got for a pressure plate/clutch cover combo? Could shave off a couple of grams there.
And I don't know what, if anything, ever happened to it, but at one point Duc Stu was working on an aluminum rear subframe. Required chopping the frame just aft of the motor.
The 800 has a wet clutch, so not much I can do there.
Quote from: hackers2r on June 29, 2014, 08:10:42 AM
Minor threadjack, how'd you get an ETI Fuelcel for the S2R? I had contacted them while ago when my last tank expanded and they said they are not making them for the S2R only for the older carb bikes.
I gave them a tank to pull a mold from, which means you should be able to get one soon!
While the motor's open, Ti valves and rods.
Pistal likely has some hi-comps that are lighter than stock.
Someone here (DubLuv?) Has been busy lightening most of the engine internals.
An older non-APTC clutch may be lighter.
Magnesium alternator cover.
Dub Luv really Swiss cheesed those parts. [thumbsup]
I'm liking this thread. I like to see what's possible when someone is committed to a concept.
You are missing pictures [thumbsdown]
TPO Ti rear brake actuator rod?
I had to get one when I went with rear sets making my stock one too short.
carry on with the good work [thumbsup]
Quote from: Speeddog on June 29, 2014, 12:40:24 PM
While the motor's open, Ti valves and rods.
Pistal likely has some hi-comps that are lighter than stock.
Someone here (DubLuv?) Has been busy lightening most of the engine internals.
An older non-APTC clutch may be lighter.
Magnesium alternator cover.
I didn't think anyone made pistons or rods for the 800 motor - I have seen them for the 900 though. I like the mag cover idea.
Yeah, I've been following that thread closely - lots of great ideas there!
Quote from: koko64 on June 29, 2014, 06:06:55 PM
Dub Luv really Swiss cheesed those parts.
I'm liking this thread. I like to see what's possible when someone is committed to a concept.
Thanks! I have learned that Ti is not necessarily the lightest option - aluminum is more often than not lighter when it comes to fasteners.
Quote from: Duck-EZ on June 29, 2014, 06:14:07 PM
You are missing pictures [thumbsdown]
I promise to post lots when it's finished ;)
Downsize the rims?
Tire choice?
Single front brake rotor?
Breather delete?
Getting pretty exotic, but were CF swingarms available for the S2R?
BK
90lb. girlfriend.
Would budget allow cf wheels?
Akechi said he doesn't like the look of 'em and doesn't want the worries with Mag wheels. He's gone for forged alloy. Probably the only compromise on the concept. I got a feeling cost isn't too big an issue considering what he's done so far and how far he was willing to go. Like you I'm happy to help him spend his money. ;D
The thing is gonna be light! [thumbsup]
Change out the Marchesinis for OZ piega forged alloy, there a bit lighter and research some tyre changes as someone posted. Some weight can be shaved of them. Definitely a Ti frame for the ultimate weight loss program!
Interesting read!
Cheers.
I'm sure a lot of weight can be saved if there's an alternative to that boat anchor swing arm.
Quote from: Speeddog on June 29, 2014, 12:40:24 PM
While the motor's open, Ti valves and rods.
Pistal likely has some hi-comps that are lighter than stock.
Don't forget the lightened and polishing rockers from kaemna.
Minor threadjack, but where do you live that it's legal (and safe) to not have mirrors?
Lightening (and re-balance) the crank anyone?
What's this rocker lightening?
Most weight at this point is in the engine and frame.
quit playing around and get serious
http://motowheels.com/i-8591367-doug-cook-superlight-titanium-frame.html (http://motowheels.com/i-8591367-doug-cook-superlight-titanium-frame.html)
Quote from: koko64 on June 30, 2014, 05:13:09 PM
Akechi said he doesn't like the look of 'em and doesn't want the worries with Mag wheels. He's gone for forged alloy. Probably the only compromise on the concept. I got a feeling cost isn't too big an issue considering what he's done so far and how far he was willing to go. Like you I'm happy to help him spend his money. ;D
The thing is gonna be light! [thumbsup]
CF can be painted.
What's the worries with mag wheels?
He's already bought forged aluminum wheels.
Quote from: Speeddog on July 01, 2014, 04:59:40 PM
He's already bought forged aluminum wheels.
Oh I know. Just pointing out the obvious.
Still don't know what the worry could be if he went with mags.
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on July 01, 2014, 02:18:12 PM
quit playing around and get serious
http://motowheels.com/i-8591367-doug-cook-superlight-titanium-frame.html (http://motowheels.com/i-8591367-doug-cook-superlight-titanium-frame.html)
That frame won't work with a single sided swinger.
Quote from: ducpainter on July 02, 2014, 05:43:00 PM
That frame won't work with a single sided swinger.
which is convienient, a DSS would be lighter.
Headlight glass and cowl weight quite much so you can definitely loose few pounds going that direction... Also a Ti swingarm will be a nice addition to this project!!!
Like others have said, at this point the largest amount of weight you will be able to take off is in the rear suspension. The issue is going to be finding a lighter setup that will still use the wheel & shock you all ready have. A double sided swingarm will be lighter, but would not be compadable with your wheel. There are lighter single sided swingarm options for the super bikes but those would not be compadable with the engine cases with out modification or the rear suspension. The lightest option I can think of would be a SS swingarm with the shock mount on the rear valve cover of the engine. That would loose the shock linkage, and give a lighter swingarm.
Quote from: Skybarney on June 30, 2014, 11:34:26 AM
90lb. girlfriend.
If you know of one, send her my way! [thumbsup]
Quote from: Düb Lüv on June 30, 2014, 07:16:56 PM
I'm sure a lot of weight can be saved if there's an alternative to that boat anchor swing arm.
But it's so cool-looking ;) I'm willing to make some compromises for aesthetics.
Quote from: memper on June 30, 2014, 04:59:08 PM
Would budget allow cf wheels?
Not anymore, or at least for a while. But even if it did, I just don't like the looks of them. The Mambas are ok, but you can only have them in a 6" version, and while they will fit, you'd have to go with a bigger tire.
Quote from: Scoober1103 on June 30, 2014, 05:50:09 PM
Change out the Marchesinis for OZ piega forged alloy, there a bit lighter and research some tyre changes as someone posted. Some weight can be shaved of them. Definitely a Ti frame for the ultimate weight loss program!
I like the look of the ten spoke Marchesinis, so I'm going to stick with those. Tire weight is definitely something to look into; Pirelli made some really light tires, but they discontinued them :( I'm surprised that tire makers haven't been bit by the weight weenie bug - it's a real selling point when you consider how much a light tire could positively change the dynamics of a bike.
Quote from: memper on July 01, 2014, 04:50:13 PM
What's the worries with mag wheels?
Maintenance - if they get damaged (nicks, scrapes, etc. beyond the paint), mag wheels corrode pretty quickly.
Quote from: Düb Lüv on June 30, 2014, 07:21:51 PM
Don't forget the lightened and polishing rockers from kaemna.
Your thread is giving me a lot of great ideas. How much weight do you think can be lost from the engine using all the tricks in the book? 10lbs? 12lbs?
Quote from: xcaptainxbloodx on July 01, 2014, 02:18:12 PM
quit playing around and get serious
http://motowheels.com/i-8591367-doug-cook-superlight-titanium-frame.html (http://motowheels.com/i-8591367-doug-cook-superlight-titanium-frame.html)
If I went that route, I'd get one from Stradafab - his work is absolutely amazing. That being said, I don't want the hassle of trying to title and insure an aftermarket frame.
Quote from: Buckethead on June 29, 2014, 07:19:34 AM
And I don't know what, if anything, ever happened to it, but at one point Duc Stu was working on an aluminum rear subframe. Required chopping the frame just aft of the motor.
I wish that was still available - I'd definitely consider it.
Quote from: Metzis on July 04, 2014, 01:36:17 AM
Headlight glass and cowl weight quite much so you can definitely loose few pounds going that direction... Also a Ti swingarm will be a nice addition to this project!!!
The bike had the plastic lens stock, which weighs a lot less than the glass ones. I'd like a CF headlight bucket, but they don't make one to replace the plastic buckets, only the steel, and they aren't compatible (I tried). I did source a U bracket from a single brake bike, which is a little lighter than the two brake U brackets.
As far as bodywork is concerned, I've deleted the front cowl, chain guards and fenders, and have a CF seat cowl.
Let us know asap when you weigh the bike ;D.
Quote from: koko64 on July 06, 2014, 03:49:05 PM
Let us know asap when you weigh the bike ;D.
As soon as I get the kevlar tank from ETI mounted, I will. That being said, I am curious how much weight the ETI tank will save, as my bike already had a plastic tank (which I assume is much lighter than the steel tanks?). I know the ETI tanks are about 8lbs lighter than the steel stock tanks; as long as the ETI tank saves me > 4lbs, I'll consider it money well spent.
I'm kicking myself for not keeping a running list of stock vs. aftermarket weight differences - it would have been a great resource for the community.
As I replaced worn parts, I weighed them and the replacement parts and recorded the difference. According to my list I dropped 30-35 lbs (approx15kgs) without getting radical. Not bad.
My bike is an old model and not relevant to your quest, but some items made a large difference. Battery 5kg, pipes 3kg, clutch 2kg, flywheel 1 kg, Penske shock over 1kg, Ohlins springs 500gms, carbon seat cowl 850gms, carbon guard 500gms! I didnt realise how heavy some plastics were.
Some items just yielded slowly accumulated weight savings. lightweight sprockets, trimmed airbox/battery box, alloy/Ti bolts, carbon bolts, tail tidy, "snowflake" rather than "pizza" discs, trimmed handle bars, trimmed coil
bracket , etc
Plastic tanks with the flange and all internals mounted actually are heavier than a steel tank with the pump and filter installed.
How about that. I didn't know that DP. I always thought the plastic tanks were lighter.
Quote from: Akechi on July 06, 2014, 03:42:59 PM
I wish that was still available - I'd definitely consider it.
I know where the only prototype for this ALU sub-frame is, for the record. Not sure if the owner is willing to part with it, though.
Hey Akechi, don't still have the headlight bracket for a twin disc bike do you?
Quote from: koko64 on July 08, 2014, 06:41:59 AM
How about that. I didn't know that DP. I always thought the plastic tanks were lighter.
I didn't either - it's good to know. It's like how I assumed Ti hardware would be lighter than aluminum, but more often than not, it isn't.
Quote from: DucatiBastard on July 08, 2014, 03:00:56 PM
I know where the only prototype for this ALU sub-frame is, for the record. Not sure if the owner is willing to part with it, though.
Is it installed? Do you know how much weight is saves?
Quote from: Nibor on July 08, 2014, 03:48:24 PM
Hey Akechi, don't still have the headlight bracket for a twin disc bike do you?
Unfortunately no - I sold it :(
Someone may have mentioned them, but Ti engine to frame studs from TPO.
Quote from: koko64 on July 09, 2014, 04:25:39 AM
Someone may have mentioned them, but Ti engine to frame studs from TPO.
On order, as are front sprocket screws [thumbsup] At this point, nearly fastener not related to the motor that can be Ti and should be Ti is Ti. Where aluminum is lighter, it's aluminum. The only thing not upgraded are the front pinch bolts, as I can't find anyone who makes Ti pinch bolts for Ohlin R&Ts.
I think I've cut all the weight I can without going into the motor, changing the frame, or running CF wheels. This winter I'll do the motor and rewire.
Please weigh the bike and end the suspense. [laugh]
Quote from: koko64 on July 09, 2014, 06:41:19 PM
Please weigh the bike and end the suspense. [laugh]
I need to install:
1. EFI tank
2. TPO motor mounts, sprocket screws
3. Motowheels clipons
4. Aftermarket ride height adjuster (don't know which one yet)
When that's done, that will be about all I can do for now, so I'll weigh it. What do you think is the best way to do that? I could go the two-scale route, but I wonder if there's another way?
People have used the two scale method with good results, if they had good scales to start with iirc. If there is a race tuning shop in your area, you could ask to use their scales. [popcorn] ;D
No need for two scales. As long as it's short (<3") it'll be plenty accurate enough.
Quote from: Buckethead on July 09, 2014, 09:10:17 PM
No need for two scales. As long as it's short (<3") it'll be plenty accurate enough.
I weighed mine last night using this method and got 365 lbs wet.
Not bad [thumbsup]
My M900 is about 375 without fuel. Not bad.
She feels pretty light to me.
Quote from: Akechi on July 08, 2014, 04:03:46 PM
Is it installed? Do you know how much weight is saves?
No, it isn't installed. If i remember correctly, it saved 6-8 pounds (in the rear) from a stock frame, which is apparently extra good because these bikes are tail-heavy.
I was trying to find the thread with no luck, seems like all of the Flight-Cycles "Sponsor" threads are gone.
Anybody know what happened to those?
Quote from: hackers2r on July 11, 2014, 10:48:37 AM
I weighed mine last night using this method and got 365 lbs wet.
I reckon my old Brembo wheels are 10 lbs heavier ;D. I can feel the unsprung weight bullying the low sprung weight if you know what I mean.
Quote from: DucatiBastard on July 13, 2014, 08:06:04 AM
No, it isn't installed. If i remember correctly, it saved 6-8 pounds (in the rear) from a stock frame, which is apparently extra good because these bikes are tail-heavy.
I was trying to find the thread with no luck, seems like all of the Flight-Cycles "Sponsor" threads are gone.
Anybody know what happened to those?
Don't quote me, but he may have had a career change from something I read somewhere here.