Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Gear => Topic started by: erkishhorde on July 04, 2014, 07:49:51 AM

Title: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: erkishhorde on July 04, 2014, 07:49:51 AM
Just ran into this today. Seems to be a recent evaluation of data.
http://blm.io/blog/motorcycle-helmet-safety-price/ (http://blm.io/blog/motorcycle-helmet-safety-price/)
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Buckethead on July 04, 2014, 08:12:12 AM
Nice find.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: DarkMonster620 on July 04, 2014, 08:47:54 AM
Excellent . . .

Will print and have as reading material for customers here at shop
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: danaid on July 05, 2014, 02:27:25 PM
  I found simular data from SHARP some time ago and used it to select my newest helmet, Shark speed -R, which was on clearance at Revzilla for just under $300 and has a 4* sharp rating. By contrast, my previous helmet was a Arai Rx7 corsair with graffix cost $750 ( haggled the price to half with other services performed on my bike) and it had a 3* sharp rating with the sides of the helmet having a " poor", there lowest rating given by SHARP.
Good to see an organization step up and show if you are getting what you are paying for.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Triple J on July 09, 2014, 06:55:42 PM
Very interesting. Seemingly proof that cost doesn't buy safety necessarily. It can buy lightness, aerodynamics, and comfort.

Glad to see Bells were some of the safest. I've been wearing Bell Stars for a while and love them. Surprising about Arai not doing as well.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: oldndumb on July 10, 2014, 11:22:47 AM
Always good for new critical component evaluation/testing methods to evolve. Also beneficial to be a little skeptical and understand that one could probably look long enough and find a test/evaluation to prove just about anything.

I've had cheap and expensive helmets and have always found the expensive ones more to my liking. But, I do not go for the fancy ($$$) graphics and usually stick to the solids.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Speeddog on July 10, 2014, 11:48:44 AM
Is there any detailed info on how they're coming up with the ranking numbers?

Cause it seemed a little smoke/mirrors from that website.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: 1.21GW on July 10, 2014, 12:01:37 PM
Wow, surprise on the Schuberths.  :o
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: DarkMonster620 on July 10, 2014, 12:15:12 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on July 10, 2014, 11:48:44 AM
Is there any detailed info on how they're coming up with the ranking numbers?

Cause it seemed a little smoke/mirrors from that website.
Here is the link to SHARP (http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/home)

These are the brands and models (http://sharp.direct.gov.uk/index.php?q=testhelmetlist&sharp-make=121&sharp-model=N510V&sharp-type=2&sharp-rating=1&sharp-price-from=0&sharp-price-to=9999&discontinued=1&comparisons=283,259,252) of helmets I use/used(Nitro is Zox in the US)
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Howie on July 10, 2014, 01:32:51 PM
Without knowing what their test standards are, how they compare to other test standards, how they gather data, so on and so forth I have to agree with Speeddog.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Skybarney on July 10, 2014, 02:38:56 PM
Initially I was a bit bummed to see the Arai not do all that well.  Did not see that they tested the model I have but was still a bit bummed.

Then it occured to me, if the criteria is safety alone I suppose a 4 inch thick ice chest would do pretty well (if strapped on) also.  Would I want to ride an ice chest around?  Nope.

There is a lot more to testing helmets than just judging which takes a beating the best.  IMO if someone with a million dollar head, racing motorcycles at speeds that make my wee wee shrivel is willing to wear an Arai, than so am I.  

Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Triple J on July 10, 2014, 03:29:27 PM
It's not just a matter of which takes a beating best. Their testing also looked at the magnitude of forces that are transmitted to the brain (the really important thing IMO).

It's interesting that the Arai didn't do well, as they're well built helmets. Maybe they use a different shell material, which could transmit more g forces to the brain but survive a hit better, or alternatively it may transmit less g forces but sustain damage. They also test oblique impact, and the Arai shield side pods may hurt performance on that test.

It would be very interesting to see how they break down and weight their results to come to a single digit rating, as they do a lot of tests. For instance, is shell survivability more important in their formula than g forces transmitted to the brain? Are the oblique test results weighted heavy or light? I'm sure it is fairly complex.

I considered digging deeper than their video last night...but then got bored and had some dinner instead.  ;D As long as a helmet has a Snell 2010 or ECE rating I'm confident in it...beyond that it is about comfort and function (where price really does matter).
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Buckethead on July 10, 2014, 05:03:02 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on July 10, 2014, 11:48:44 AM
Cause it seemed a little smoke/mirrors from that website.

In what way?

32 impacts per helmet model.*

Front, left, right, back, and crown at 3 different speeds, versus 2 different impact anvils for a total of 30 impacts.

Aggregate score of accelerometer readings.

The only thing not really spelled out is how they would rank their oblique impact scores, but I could think of several ways to do that. 

Otherwise it's all a matter of statistical analysis.

Average impact energy for each impact zone gets 3 stars. Those that transmit more energy get fewer stars, and vice versa.

Add up all the stars for a helmet in all the impact zones and average it for that helmet's star rating.

All the ratings are simply relative to one another.

Quote from: howie on July 10, 2014, 01:32:51 PM
Without knowing what their test standards are, how they compare to other test standards, how they gather data, so on and so forth I have to agree with Speeddog.

Check the video on the SHARP website. They directly compare to the ECE 22.05 standard for each of the drop tests. They then do one faster and one slower.

*post edited for clarity and accuracy
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Triple J on July 10, 2014, 06:43:44 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on July 10, 2014, 05:03:02 PM

32 impacts per helmet.

Actually, it sounds like for each helmet model they run 32 tests on 7 helmets of various sizes.

That in itself could be a bit of a problem, as helmets are designed for one impact.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Buckethead on July 10, 2014, 07:09:15 PM
Quote from: Triple J on July 10, 2014, 06:43:44 PM
That in itself could be a bit of a problem, as helmets are designed for one impact.

Which is one of the issues with the Snell test brought up by the MotorCyclist magazine article several years ago. That and the different sized head forms having the same mass.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Triple J on July 10, 2014, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from: Buckethead on July 10, 2014, 07:09:15 PM
Which is one of the issues with the Snell test brought up by the MotorCyclist magazine article several years ago. That and the different sized head forms having the same mass.


Corrected, or at least improved significantly, with Snell 2010...similar to ECE apparently.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: thought on July 14, 2014, 08:19:05 AM
Those Schuberth models are all older models that are no longer available so that data probably isnt relevant anymore.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: astevens54 on June 06, 2015, 03:27:57 PM
http://www.helmetcheck.org/safetytips.aspx (http://www.helmetcheck.org/safetytips.aspx) Here's another site to check helmets out.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Dochunt on June 06, 2015, 06:16:09 PM
It is such a complicated decision,  It is easier to find the perfect bike then the perfect Helmet.
I have a Shoumy Apex.  I didn't see that brand tested
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: astevens54 on June 06, 2015, 06:56:37 PM
Quote from: Dochunt on June 06, 2015, 06:16:09 PM
It is such a complicated decision,  It is easier to find the perfect bike then the perfect Helmet.
I have a Shoumy Apex.  I didn't see that brand tested
You are so right, couple things I prefer are inflatable cheek pads and an internal sun visor.
Title: Re:
Post by: Raux on June 06, 2015, 07:50:55 PM
For me I prefer to look for ece ratings
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Dochunt on June 07, 2015, 11:20:46 AM
It was the ECE rating and the fit that got me to buy the Shoumy.
For some reason I have more faith in the Europeans on this matter then the US.
More people ride more miles in Europe.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Dochunt on June 07, 2015, 07:11:38 PM
Quote from: astevens54 on June 06, 2015, 06:56:37 PM
You are so right, couple things I prefer are inflatable cheek pads and an internal sun visor.
Cheek pads are an issue, I had to spend another $50 for small pads
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: DucHead on September 25, 2015, 04:09:04 AM
Quote from: Dochunt on June 06, 2015, 06:16:09 PM
It is such a complicated decision,  It is easier to find the perfect bike then the perfect Helmet.
I have a Shoumy Apex.  I didn't see that brand tested

I just got a Suomy Apex and I LOVE it.  VERY lightt (<3lbs) and very aerodynamic, but I was surprisded to find that its pretty quiet as well.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Dochunt on September 26, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
Quote from: DucHead on September 25, 2015, 04:09:04 AM
I just got a Suomy Apex and I LOVE it.  VERY lightt (<3lbs) and very aerodynamic, but I was surprisded to find that its pretty quiet as well.
The only hassle is changing the visor.
I am am looking for a good helmet with internal flip down visor.
Any ideas?
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: DarkMonster620 on September 26, 2015, 12:11:19 PM
http://www.zoxhelmets.com/ (http://www.zoxhelmets.com/)
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: NAKID on September 28, 2015, 11:54:01 AM
Quote from: Dochunt on September 26, 2015, 11:48:30 AM
The only hassle is changing the visor.
I am am looking for a good helmet with internal flip down visor.
Any ideas?

I just bought a Scorpion EXO-1100. It has good reviews, relatively light (~3lbs) has an internal visor, and is relatively inexpensive.

I ordered a medium, as that's what I normally wear and it felt a bit on the small side to me. It's quite snug. I'm sure it will break in.

The inflatable cheek pads are a gimmick but would be nice if they actually held air. I'f inflated them several times and never had them last longer than about 5 mins before they deflated.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Dochunt on September 29, 2015, 04:45:06 PM
Thanks, will check then out.
May ride out to Revzilla this weekend.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: NAKID on September 29, 2015, 04:56:07 PM
Quote from: Dochunt on September 29, 2015, 04:45:06 PM
Thanks, will check then out.
May ride out to Revzilla this weekend.

That's where I got mine (shipped though).

They price matched another competitor at $190.
Title: Re: Helmets: $ vs protection by SHARP
Post by: Dirty Duc on October 03, 2015, 09:15:27 PM
I am a huge fan of the Icon Alliance.  ~$150, the shield doesn't fog, and this time it came with a dark smoke visor also.  And it fits, and is rated ECE. I buy a new helmet about every year, because the "washable" liners and such just don't recover after 300+ days of riding (just rubbing it in for those in the states with snow seasons). :D