http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2008/july/7-13/jul1108-harley-davidson-buys-mv-agusta/?R=EPI-101662 (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/mcn/2008/july/7-13/jul1108-harley-davidson-buys-mv-agusta/?R=EPI-101662) [popcorn]
WOW! I got nothing for that - except astonishment. Maybe we'll be seeing some really good apperal though. ;D
LA
[puke]
Better them than Duc if someone has to go....still such a shame....
???
:o
[puke]
[roll]
:'(
[coffee]
Woah.
Hopefully this will be a good thing in the survival of MV/Cagiva.
Quote from: CDawg on July 11, 2008, 06:46:42 AM
[puke]
Better them than Duc if someone has to go....still such a shame....
history lesson: http://www.cybermotorcycle.com/euro/brands/aermacchi_history.htm
Ok then. i guess i won't be buying an MV anytime soon then. ???
...Yeah, at least it wasn't Ducati! (whew)
Shame that those two noble brands have to live under such taint now. damn shame.
the real question is why?
why would HD want to buy a motorcycle company when moto sales are down overall and mv is inherently a very expensive product almost more so than even the HD products.
Quote from: sbrguy on July 11, 2008, 08:35:34 AM
the real question is why?
why would HD want to buy a motorcycle company when moto sales are down overall and mv is inherently a very expensive product almost more so than even the HD products.
They are hoping to fill the entire lifecycle of a motorcycle owner. MV and HD both represent higher disposable income groups. The thinking is when someone is mid- 30's, 40's they buy a MV and then as folks age they transition into HD's.
How good is the MV/Cagiva distribution network in Europe?
HD can't diversify outside of their "core product" group -- it truly has been stifling the company for years. (and its actually hurting them now due to a massive reduction in sales)
Buell is a great niche product for them and is profitable. But the brand hasn't spread internationally as they have hoped for.
Cagiva -- remember what their core product group is. Mito and Raptor. More money is needed for development.
MV Agusta -- the premier lustful Tamburini masterpiece is over 10+ years old in design. They are at the final tweak / special model stage which is amazing as sales are still pretty decent. Think now of what the extra money (which HD has) that can be used to design a new replacement superbike and a few other motorcycles.
The important thing is that Tamburini is staying on -- as well as his entire design team. I'm sure they have years of product design that hasn't gone anywhere due to no funds to actually develop / prototype and manufacture.
The HD merchandising group is going to have a field day with the possibilities in regard to clothing, etc. Why not -- they are good at it.
One thing about the HD ownership group (and board of directors) -- it actually has an incredible love for Italian motorcycles. I've learned and worked with some interesting people that past few years that really has surprised me given my MotoCreations DesmoDevil project.
Here's a link to H-Ds press release:
http://www.harley-davidson.com/wcm/Content/Pages/HD_News/Company/newsarticle.jsp?locale=en_US&articleLink=News/0292_press_release.hdnews&newsYear=2008&history=news
Quote from: MotoCreations on July 11, 2008, 09:06:46 AM
HD can't diversify outside of their "core product" group -- it truly has been stifling the company for years. (and its actually hurting them now due to a massive reduction in sales)
Buell is a great niche product for them and is profitable. But the brand hasn't spread internationally as they have hoped for.
Cagiva -- remember what their core product group is. Mito and Raptor. More money is needed for development.
MV Agusta -- the premier lustful Tamburini masterpiece is over 10+ years old in design. They are at the final tweak / special model stage which is amazing as sales are still pretty decent. Think now of what the extra money (which HD has) that can be used to design a new replacement superbike and a few other motorcycles.
The important thing is that Tamburini is staying on -- as well as his entire design team. I'm sure they have years of product design that hasn't gone anywhere due to no funds to actually develop / prototype and manufacture.
The HD merchandising group is going to have a field day with the possibilities in regard to clothing, etc. Why not -- they are good at it.
One thing about the HD ownership group (and board of directors) -- it actually has an incredible love for Italian motorcycles. I've learned and worked with some interesting people that past few years that really has surprised me given my MotoCreations DesmoDevil project.
All very good points. I see nothing but good coming out of this. Harley haters, I think you are way off the mark. If this hadn't happened MV would likely have once again gone under. With their respect for tradition, I hope that Harley will recognize that MV is roadracings most successful label and
will infuse the money necessary to bring them back to glory.
Quote from: sbrguy on July 11, 2008, 08:35:34 AM
the real question is why?
why would HD want to buy a motorcycle company when moto sales are down overall and mv is inherently a very expensive product almost even more so than even the HD products.
Fixed it for ya!
Although the MV stuff is more expensive than HD, at least you get a pretty good value with MV vs. the cheap parts bin crap that comes on the HD's.
As the baby boomers start to die in mass numbers there won't be as many drunk and fat people to buy Hardleys, and the rest of us tend to purchase performance. It's a good move for Hardley imo.
I forsee
One piece race suits....with tassles. ;)
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t180/bobspapa/williel.jpg?t=1215797494)
My guess is this is more about marketing and branding than it is about moor'sickles. They want a brand that evokes passion and heritage but that they can sell to younger and/or more performance-oriented people. A brand people can wear on their sleeve (and boy will they ever sell a lot of sleeved items to put the brand on).
I think MV's F4 is one of the last truly exotic supersports. Even the 1098 does not have the level of detail and quality in every piece down the last fastener that MV has on the F4 (ducking the flamethrowers for that one). I just hope like hell that HD doesn't change that.
I feel sorry for the Walmart employees that are now going to have to learn how to pronounce Agusta & Cagiva
Quote from: Evil_Ductator on July 11, 2008, 10:39:25 AM
Even the 1098 does not have the level of detail and quality in every piece down the last fastener that MV has on the F4 (ducking the flamethrowers for that one). I just hope like hell that HD doesn't change that.
They'll just dip all those fasteners in chrome and release the 'Skull' edition MV.
Quote from: Rotten Randy on July 11, 2008, 10:46:59 AM
They'll just dip all those fasteners in chrome and release the 'Skull' edition MV.
[laugh] [clap]
HD has had periods of trying to break into racing. That's where the V-Rod engine came from. Maybe an MV-A partnership will bolster that effort. More likely, though, it will just mean a bigger dealer force for those Italian brands in America and their US brands in Europe.
I sat on a Hardley recently and it felt like a quality product, about as good as anything else. Better HD buys MV than the Chinese or AMF. Nothing wrong with a Harley in my view other than I don't particularly like them.
I don't have a problem with a nice cash influx for MV, provided:
HD doesn't decide that MVs are not expensive enough for a high-end lifestyle product and jack up the MSRPs.
HD has nothing to do with the MV designs and product development, they've been doing just fine as it is.
HD starts selling MVs in CANADA! We are still waiting up here.
So does this mean I get to tease Alan and Felicia on their Cagiva Gran Canyons about their Hogs? ;D
What would be particularly interesting is if HD shops start supporting (or at least order parts for) the older Cagiva bikes. Would be truly ironic if he had easier local access to a dealer network out here in the sticks with the GC than we do with Ducati!
Quote from: ODrides on July 11, 2008, 12:30:19 PM
HD has had periods of trying to break into racing. That's where the V-Rod engine came from. Maybe an MV-A partnership will bolster that effort. More likely, though, it will just mean a bigger dealer force for those Italian brands in America and their US brands in Europe.
HD actually had a long stretch of race winning. The XR750 won many a flat-track championship.
I actually really like the new XR1200 (replica of the 750) but it's only for sale in Europe for the time being.
Quote from: sbrguy on July 11, 2008, 08:35:34 AM
the real question is why?
why would HD want to buy a motorcycle company when moto sales are down overall and mv is inherently a very expensive product almost more so than even the HD products.
Insulation.
Most MV owners are not effected by downturns in the US economy. Many H-D buyers are middle class (not all but a good portion) who are effected by the current state of the US economy and not able to buy new H-Ds.
Castiglioni strikes me as a very Intelligent man, who would only appear to have MV's best interest's at heart, I can bet he will make sure there are all sort's of clauses in any purchase contract to ensure that MV/Cagiva is allowed to go it's own way.
Also he and and his son are quite large Stake holders within the company (37.25%) The good thing I see with MV is they do have designs in the pipeline for future products and new engines (A single and a triple).
HD also had a chance with Buell to go after the Japanese brands and give the buying public a choice to get a Japanese performance bike, but made by an American company, But as a number of designers and engineers keep saying is how does Eric buell and his designers just keep missing the mark so much, time after time?!?
They had a chance with the 1125r, but it's as ugly as a hat full of arseholes, they have tried to hide so many design flaws by painting everything black (It just doesn't work) And a number of Magazine writers have complained about overheating/shuddering front brakes and a number have gearbox problems on the same rides, but mainly the looks, I remember one scribe if he owned one claiming he would only bring it out at night, beat it senseless, then lock it back in the basement and if asked deny any knowledge of such an ugly abomination. Tough way of describing Eric Buell's pride and joy at the time.
I think this is a good Idea for HD, MV riders are very one eyed about there bikes (not unlike HD riders) in that the brand and the bikes can do no wrong, and they will spend a fortune to purchase there beloved product.
It will also help MV with more buying power and shared components between the 3 brands (Sorry 4 if you allow for Buell) They may not share much, but every little bit helps.
I think it could be a very good thing for both MV and HD...... we shall have to just sit back and watch what happens.
HD has to put MV back into racing! You cannot sell performance machinery without performing(winning). Ducati and Suzuki gain recognition this way. It will be interesting to see which direction this will go.
I rather see it in the hands of HD/USA than being snapped up by some power hungry widget maker from you know where...
Now a joint venture within the design studios could be useful, maybe they will let Buell use some of Tamburini's discarded sketches
on the 1125R
Buy a MV now before beige-ism sets in with the taint of HD. Please oh please Tamburini come home to Ducati.
this is funny. HD is buying back a company that they sold off 30 years or so ago and everybody is acting like it's the end of the world.
It all sounds good to me . If Ducati can try and compete with HD by going retro to cash in on its heritage. why should HD not try to modernize by buying a company that has technical knowhow and probably THE best designer in the business.
I am not an 4 cylinder fan (like my twins) but if MV gets the ability to develop new models and go racing with the backing that HD has watch out. They may even end up with a dealer network that can get parts without waiting for ever. [thumbsup]
I wait for Buell parts. [roll]
Quote from: Monstermash on July 11, 2008, 09:49:52 AM
Fixed it for ya!
Although the MV stuff is more expensive than HD, at least you get a pretty good value with MV vs. the cheap parts bin crap that comes on the HD's.
Must be horrible to buy a bike that's such poor quality that one would have to mod it to almost beyond recognition to appreciate it.....
Does this mean your F4 will be able pass a valve out exhaust and still run?
Quote from: someguy on July 11, 2008, 06:01:08 PM
Must be horrible to buy a bike that's such poor quality that one would have to mod it to almost beyond recognition to appreciate it.....
Careful...careful... [laugh]
That remark resembles an awful lot of Monsters on this forum! ;D ;D [evil]
Quote from: sbrguy on July 11, 2008, 08:35:34 AM
the real question is why?
why would HD want to buy a motorcycle company when moto sales are down overall and mv is inherently a very expensive product almost more so than even the HD products.
So they can get in the European market.I guess.
Personally, I view it as a positive move for MV and Cagiva. The current distribution chain in Spain is absolutely shite - Motos Bordoy, hopefully there will now be real parts availability and warranty support.
Quote from: duc996 on July 13, 2008, 01:49:44 AM
So they can get in the European market.I guess.
there was no shortage of harleys when we went to italy a few years ago.
Quote from: akmnstr on July 11, 2008, 09:38:40 AM
All very good points. I see nothing but good coming out of this. Harley haters, I think you are way off the mark.
+1
Don't let your preconceived stereotypes get int the way. IMO, this is going to be a "win-win" situation just like H-D's deal with Aermacchi. At a time whe HD couldn't compete with the Japanese in the firecracker-hot small MC market, the Aermacchi deal gave them instant product with hardly any investment.
Now that "lifestylers" are deserting Harley in droves, due to the economy, the deal gives them an expanded market and more than a little cachet with "motorcyclists".
It will be interesting to see the effects on dealers. AFAIK, most MV dealers are exotic, superbike oriented. Could be interesting. OTOH, the Las Vegas dealer started life with Big Dog and Boss Hoss and expanded into Ducati, MV, Benelli, Moto Guzzi, and Triumph as those franchises became available. They should fit right in. :-)
And to be quite honest, something along the lines of a Dr. T redesigned V-Rod might interest me in the brand for the first time.
Quote from: akmnstr on July 11, 2008, 09:38:40 AM
All very good points. I see nothing but good coming out of this. Harley haters, I think you are way off the mark.
+1
Don't let your preconceived stereotypes get int the way. IMO, this is going to be a "win-win" situation just like H-D's deal with Aermacchi. At a time whe HD couldn't compete with the Japanese in the firecracker-hot small MC market, the Aermacchi deal gave them instant product with hardly any investment.
Now that "lifestylers" are deserting Harley in droves, due to the economy, the deal gives them an expanded market and more than a little cachet with "motorcyclists".
It will be interesting to see the effects on dealers. AFAIK, most MV dealers are exotic, superbike oriented. Could be interesting. OTOH, the Las Vegas dealer started life with Big Dog and Boss Hoss and expanded into Ducati, MV, Benelli, Moto Guzzi, and Triumph as those franchises became available. They should fit right in. :-)
And to be quite honest, something along the lines of a Dr. T redesigned V-Rod might interest me in the brand for the first time.
Quote from: Evil_Ductator on July 11, 2008, 01:31:49 PM
HD actually had a long stretch of race winning. The XR750 won many a flat-track championship.
I actually really like the new XR1200 (replica of the 750) but it's only for sale in Europe for the time being.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=WIHhnnEQdsU (http://youtube.com/watch?v=WIHhnnEQdsU)
Rather them than the Chinese [thumbsup]
bdfinally - THANK YOU for that video.... now i want one MORE. see how easy he lifted the wheel to the sky? damn... that is one cool bike. if they bring that to the states (more like WHEN they bring it here) I will likely be buying one. Well i did hear the fuel tank is absurdly small so that really sucks but other than that the bike is a cream puff.