My traveling w/ helmet thread was turning into a newbie off-road thread, so I'm transferring the topic here...
Background:
I'm taking a trip to Ecuador next month that includes 4 days/3 nights of ADVing around the center of the country (mostly mountainous regions). I think 2/3 of the trip is off of asphalt, although from pictures it appears that more are dirt roads and gravel and no the deep sand, rocky terrain, muddy bogs that Ewan and Charlie encountered in LWR/LWD. I have no dirt experience and was fully advised on the risks, etc of this by caring DMFers. So let's move on and talk gear.
Some questions:
- I have street/race boots (Dainese Torques), which provide good ankle/heal protection but are not waterproof. What is special about dirt boots? I would imagine they guard more from flying rocks, etc. Is gortex or some water protection necessary?
- Helmets: from what I gather, off-road helmets are meant to be worn with goggles. This allows for better airflow and also reduces condensation, which would fog up street helmet shields pretty quickly (I assume bc heavy breathing, different speeds and airflow, possibly damp conditions, etc). I'm looking at ADV helmets, because they over a cross over to road with integrated shields and more airflow vents.
- Which googles do you use? Are ski goggles the same thing, or do bike goggle have some special properties?
oh oh! Ive been to Ecuador! and i ride dirt. ;D
Ecuador is rocky. really make the beast with two backsing rocky. I attempted to summit Cotopaxi (and failed). From the ground up to where i was at (17,500 ft) was the same. big make the beast with two backsing rocks. When your near the amazon area, it becomes more like a rain forest as you would imagine.
With that said, if you stick to the trails, I'm sure the rock is removed and you will be riding on hard packed roads. Deep sand is a newbies worst enemy. If its wet, it helps, but sugar sand is ridden with the rear wheel and leg input. you can literally lock your steering and still move forward. If you are skilled enough you can ham down on the front brake and still move forward too. if you see that, turn the other way unless the bike is really small and you can basically flat foot and paddle it out of the sand.
Everything else if you are half a good street rider with decent guides, you'll figure most of it out on your own... now to gear.
Dirt bike boots have a much hefteir toe area and heel area. I have track boots and my dirt boots are probably 2x more rigid. They also offer much better shin protection than track boots do. this is because you can ride off road and get your foot smashed by a edge of a rock, or crash and have the peg dig into your shin. They also offer a larger calf area so you can wear extra shin protection (some boots dont provide this feature). Goretex is not required but certainly a luxury.
most offroad boots are water proof. There are two sides of this. one is that if you are not doing any water crossings, then go waterproof, if you are crossing bodies of water, they will act like a bathtub and your feet will be soaked all day. for me, offroad boots are MUST. do not skimp out on this. if you hurt your foot, your whole riding experience is over because youve lost an important way to steer your bike (though your legs).
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helmets i have ridden with street helmet offroad with the visor up and safety glasses. you can definitely do it, however when the temps pick up or when you are in tight technical conditions, wearing a street helmet will make you feel choked out since the chin guard is usually only 1-2" away from your mouth. adv helmets are a good mix, but there's a lot of little quirks about each one.
adv helmets tend to have a very tall lens and can distort the view. your better brands will not have as much of a problem with this. Some brands don't allow the lens to go all the way up, so with the visor up about 1/3 of our view will be blocked by the lens (its at an angle so you cant see much due to distortion, even though the lens is clear). Some helmets are EXTREMELY loud due to the larger shell size and echoing effect. Some of them are perfect in every way, but cost you an arm and a leg, but with ear plugs they will all work pretty well.
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goggles, ski goggles are very similar, but they tend to provide a taller Field of vision compared to offroad goggles. a ski goggle depending on brand may actually not even fit the helmet. Offroad goggle lens are pretty thin and only protect against minor roost. its not DOT approved. They are designed to be highly breathable though.
hope this helps and enjoy your trip! what part of Ecuador are you going to?
This illustrates a lot of what HeMan said.
Both sets are Sidi, my trusty Vertigo Air (I think) and my Sidi Crossfire.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7576/15593562164_89c05a9bda_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pKX5L5)
Thanks, Speeddog, that image makes it very clear. [thumbsup]
Follow up to He Man:
So is the convention to have a dirt and a street helmet and forego the crossover ADV style helmet as less-than-ideal for both scenarios? It just seems that an ADV helmet would be the best of both worlds. That said, most reviews of ADVs confirm your comments about noise and shields, including the one I'm looking closely at: AGV AX-8. I'm keeping my Shoei RF-1100 for the street, so I don't NEED one that works on the street, but would be nice to have that option.
i personally wear my ADV helmet everyday commuting. i dont have an issue with the visor, and honestly only notice it once i throw a street helmet back on which is only when i ride my ducati.
the AX-8 is my favorite dual sport helmet (theres also an AX-8 offroad only helmet). Ive tried it and its on par with the Arai dual sport helmets. they fit loads better IMHO too. but the fabric leaves a lot to be desired considering the price point. do you wear earplugs? if so noise isnt an issue.
I wear an offroad helmet for offroad, and a street helmet for street. When i dual sport i ride my dual sport helmet. When i commute it depends on which bike. I usuall ywear my DS helmet because i have my helmet speakers in them and i like to listen to music when i ride.
you need to shield for on road travel 100%. it is brutal to do cold weather or rain with just goggles. plus its illegal in the states to not have a DOT approved eye protection.
you will be very happy with a nice dual sport helmet. look at it this way, if there is any hint of offroading, a dual sport helmet is better than doing it with a street helmet.
Biggest problem with a standard street helmet or DS helmet with standard shield, is if it's dusty.
The shield gets a layer of dust outside and inside, and it's quite far from your eyes.
So clarity suffers a lot.
Good goggles only get dirty on the outside, and the lens is quite close to your eyes.
So way better in that situation.
And DS helmet has the bill, so if someone in front is throwing mud or dirt at you, you can tilt your head and take the hit on the bill.
There are helmets that allow you to close your shield with the googles on, most of the time dusty areas are due to being behind someone or cause you ride in windy areas with alot of silt and fine sand.
You wont be getting either of those in Ecuador IIRC, so is not an issue.
Any favorite boots out that that aren't $500 Crossfires? I'm going to Revzilla this weekend to try stuff on but want to have some targets boots to consider.
Revzilla's instore offroad gear sucks. its like 3 boots and whatever is in the warehouse but not on the show room floor, and you don't know cause the floor sales doesn't know without searching if it is. THis is based on my last visit in august last year.
I wear O'Neal Elements boots, ($125) initially I hated buying cheesy gear if I can help it. But they fit the best for my foot even when I compared them to A* 10s. They may not for your feet tho.
If we keep the fit thing out cause it varies. build wise They are compareable to A* Tech 3. Which is twice the price. the Tech 5 aren't much improved from Tech 3. TEch 8 or 10 or whatever the $500 model is a giant step in terms of build quality and feel. However none of the A* boots fit my foot shape. Offroad boots are generally more protective that adventure boots, but the adv boots are way way more comfy. I have worn my O'Neals for 12 hour days ,two days in a row though. Comfort wasn't an issue at all for me. They are clunky looking boots though.
Ive heard a lot of good things about the gaerne balance too for mid range.
Thanks. I'll check those boot options out online. Much closer to my budget. [thumbsup]
Oh, and I get the fit issue---on street, I really wanted to like SIDI Vertigos but the Dainese TRQs just fit me better, so I went with those. Always nice to be able to actually try something before you buy. ;D
Anyway, my trip is as much about sizing as about the exact make/model. Also good to see and compare a variety of options even if they don't have the specific product I want, so I know what features I like and don't. I can always order what they don't have in store when I get home. Nowhere around here has Klim gear, Dainese jackets, AGV helmets, and various rain oversuits, all in one place.
You're on a good path, carry on.
If you like the off-road stuff, in a while you can upgrade to what you really want.
I've done a lot of off-road, I know I like it, and I didn't want to get another set of boots any time soon.
So I paid significant dollars for what I got.
what size are you?
I have a pair of boots you can try...
(http://www.classicboots.com/moto/images/fb02-2.jpg)
;D ;D
no...really.
Size: 11
I've been researching online and watched about 100 Revzilla product videos. This always leads me up market because I'm a sucker, so now I'm eyeing the SIDI Adventure Rain ($400). Reasoning: better ankle protection than SIDI Discovery, Gaerne Balanced, and similar boots, but still something you can walk around in off the bike. I'm not sure I'll go full MX, and can't really justify the $500 for Crossfires or similar boots (Gaerne S12, A* ). But I won't know until I get to try on a few options to at least have a sense of different styles and options (MX, ADV, Trial).
But really, it all comes down to fit and feel, which hopefully I'll get a sense of this weekend.
better ankle protection in case you what? flip the bike into tree at 100mph? lets face it, if you were that worried about ankle protection, youd wear a neck brace too, but youre not lol.
i get the "better for the $$" but theres a fine line.
my $125 O'Neals...yea ive had some make the beast with two backsED Up crashes in mine. I hit a tree at 40mph TWICE. I slammed my ankle on the pegs and they were fine.
is $400 worth your ankles to be safer. sure. but you could say that about literally anything!
Wow. You have a surprising amount of passion regarding ankle protection vs price. ;D
To be clear, I haven't settled on anything yet. Just researching so far, and after reading a lot of advrider threads on footwear, I want to make sure there is adequate ankle protection. All such boots seems to have sufficient shin and toe and heel protection as a standard, so I'm not concerned there. And the higher end MX boots seem to have really good Achilles protection and, according to some reports, the solidity and height of the boot has allowed them to get home after breaking a leg (the boot holds things together), albeit, rather painfully. Of course, I don't think I need THAT level of protection (eg: Crossfires). But short of that, once I get a look at 2 or 3 varieties in person, I'll know what works for me. Then it's all about fit. Could be SIDI, A*, or the very same Oneils you have.
Quote from: He Man on January 08, 2015, 09:13:24 AM
is $400 worth your ankles to be safer. sure. but you could say that about literally anything!
And it's not $400, it's $50 (the price different between the Discovery Rain and Adventure Rain models), or at most $200 if comparing to more entry-level boots.
I guess that means you're not interested in the Fullbores.
PM sent.
Got the SIDI Adventure Rain boots. There were as expected and fit perfectly. Tried some A* and felt comfy but the SIDI's felt a little more "structured". But I can still walk around with them off the bike.
I also got a Shoei Hornet on sale. I tried the AGV AX-8 DS and really wanted to like that more but it think the Shoei was better for me. One of the other reasons I wanted the AGV was because I already HAVE a Shoei for my street bike (an RF-1100), and so I wanted to own another brand just to mix it up. But the Shoei just fit a little bit better and allegedly has better noise isolation.
[thumbsup]
the SIDIs are primo boots! i love their fit and function, pricey though but its one of the brands i think are actually worth the $$$. my gf has a Shoei Hornet, i cant comment on i other than i like the face shield. but if it fits its good!
If you want to practice riding around on a dirt bike just let me know. Ive got a WR450F, its street legal so you can take it out and ride it around and see how you deal with the height and pratice stand up riding and foot peg position.
I have to throw the shock back on it and finish tightening up some bolts
PM sent.
Oh, and I got a KLIM jacket. I decided to go all-in on ADV stuff, which is how I (pre)spent my tax return. Last year I used it for Oz Piega wheels; this year, gear. So much gear. I'm gonna look like such a noob on Day 1 of this trip, what with all my shiny clothes. Maybe I'll do some belly slides in Central Park all suited up to break in everything and give it a worn look. [laugh]
Well it seems like I'm a little late to this.. But
Pants, so adv pants will be good. Off road pants won't come with built in armor, for good or bad. They do have room for knee braces, so that's a big differentiator. So with pure off road pants your looking at some sort of knee and probably hip armor supplement where adv will probably ship with.
Back on to boots, I don't think anyone has mentioned bike grip. If you look at the photos of the crossfires you'll see that the inner side has a large rubbery panel. Of course if you got pants over boot, that covered, but if exposed it does make a real difference in gripping the bike especially when standing
Also off-road boots will have a rather ridged shank - they do feel a good bit like ski boots
Interesting you mention the boot innards. One of the other boots I considered had a flatter bottom with little-to-no step between the heel and rest of the bottom. Presumably for easier movement up and down along the peg without the heel ledge catching. But I also see than some styles have a rugged bottom, like a hefty hiking book. My Adventure Rain has such a sole. I assume this is because you don't want your foot sliding off the peg as you bump over rugged terrain, while also needing some rugged grip on the dirt when your plant your foot on turns, etc. Anyway, that is what I assumed.
Oh, and I will look for KLIM pants that zip into my jacket in the distance future. Need time for my wallet to cool off first. ;D