Alright guys. Prepare for what I'm guessing will seem a real jackass question: I have slip-on carbon Termiognis waiting for me at the dealer to install on my M821. I know I love the look and I understand it improves the sound. But I want to believe that there's also some practical benefit in terms of performance and such. Am I destined to be disappointed, and did I just spend about $1,500 on a mere cosmetic tweak? Damn I feel stupid just asking this question.
You might get a couple horsepower...bit it's mainly about the looks and sound. The sound should be worth it though! ;)
What TripleJ said.
On modern bikes, you aren't likely to see much improvement with only one mod. And mods to make "real" power will be punished in the "streetability" department.
The sound is DEFINITELY worth it! I waited a couple years to buy pipes for my first Monster. The second Monster...pipes were one of the first mods. $1500 is a pretty penny to pay though. Just as good of sound with cheaper alternative steel pipes. But..you will most likely be satisfied the first time you open it up and engine break. The price will be an after thought by then. [thumbsup]
You might be dumping a considerable amount of weight as well. I don't know how the 821 exhaust is configured, but most slip ons save decent weight. [thumbsup]
Maybe only a couple or a few peak hp, but improved response and filling any EPA midrange holes in the torque curve are common benefits. Tune the ECU and you will probably get more.
So don't despair, it was worth it.
Ok, question, are you getting the HOMOLOGATED Termis or the "RACING KIT" Termis?
With the first one, you still get a CAT, loose weight and have CF and the ability to decide if you want the baffles or not . . .
With the second option you get: straight through piping, NO CAT, less weight and an UPMAP or 'REFLASH' good for up (depending where you are) net gain of 8%-10% power and torque(as explained to me by factory Service Manager) . . .
So, you do gain power and torque, and yes, you will feel the difference, specially in SPORT mode
I hope this answers your question . . .
Quote from: koko64 on February 28, 2015, 10:43:17 PM
Tune the ECU and you will probably get more.
Is that something to be done by the service center? I seem to recall hearing something about that when I bought the bike.
Quote from: The Last In Line on March 01, 2015, 06:15:54 AM
Ok, question, are you getting the HOMOLOGATED Termis or the "RACING KIT" Termis?
I know mine lacks a catalytic converter (CAT?). Does that narrow the options well enough? By the way, what is "homologated?" Either way, I can't wait to slip those pipes on and try em out. Loving my new 821. As a newcomer to riding, I really appreciate all the help.
Quote from: texasmonster on March 01, 2015, 07:27:38 AM
I know mine lacks a catalytic converter (CAT?). Does that narrow the options well enough? By the way, what is "homologated?" Either way, I can't wait to slip those pipes on and try em out. Loving my new 821. As a newcomer to riding, I really appreciate all the help.
http://bit.ly/1DpVprv (http://bit.ly/1DpVprv)
You could buy the expensive DP ECU or get the ECU reflashed or even the trim adjusted. I dont know if Power Commander or Rexxer have options yet. Someone will chime in who knows. Your options depend on the capability of the dealer or local tuners and tuning parameters of the current ECU. Termi kits can often come with a DP ECU too.
Last in Line will know the options (hes a dealer tech).
Pretty sure the race kit comes with a different ecu/map.
I'm reading all your minds: " This dipshit dropped $1500, and doesn't even know wtf he's getting?!?" Yes, this dipshit did that, exactly. This dipshit was in an "f-it" mood that day. And this dipshit thought Termis look like the tits. [shot]
ha ha...no worries. I always get exhaust as well, mainly for looks and sound. Lower weight is nice, as is any HP increase. But honestly, the bikes are just fine right out of the box for street use if you're talking practicality.
So...it's all about looks and sound in the end. ;D ;D
At that price I'm pretty sure you have the DP computer. Closed loop operation will be about the same performance wise. Open loop is where you will feel the improvement. Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the board.
Homologated means that it has the CAT and baffles(removable) to pass emissions and sound controls . . .
The "racing kit" has an "upmap key" that gets installed when the kit gets installed at dealership, since we(dealers) are the ones with the equipment to do it . . .
The homologated slip ons cost about $1,875 :o , so another 'probably' vote for your race kit.
If buying exhaust systems at high prices makes us dipshits .... ooops! We're all in trouble. If it's the 'not knowing what, why and with what result' that makes us dipshits... just about 90% of us are in the same boat.
So, don't worry ;D
I appreciate all the consolation. This dp computer sounds like it'll give me something interesting to research.
Because you wanted it, no other reason is necessary. ;)
Quote from: texasmonster on March 01, 2015, 12:21:11 PM
I appreciate all the consolation. This dp computer sounds like it'll give me something interesting to research.
you get the "4 PIN KEY" with your exhaust . .. with it, you can go back to tje OEM exhaust/mapping if you decide to sell
I'd like to learn more of this "up map key." Is there some literature on that? Speaking of: I'd to find a sort of "Monster Bible." An exhaustive guide to the Monster; the 821, in particular. Any recommendations?
this "upmap key" is part of the kit . . . as said it modifies all 3 riding modes giving up to 8%net power/torque gains . . if you decide to sell your bike w/out the Termi kit, you need this "key" to restore the OEM mapping since it has already been "married" to your ECU/BBS(Black box system) . . .
right now the only bible I have regarding the M821 are the repair manuals in the shop . . .
Carlos, the man with the good oil! âœ...
As many others have said, the sound alone will be worth the money. BUT, it sounds like you'll get a nice little bump in power too.
I can't wait to hear your reaction to the sound upgrade 8)
I'm glad my M750 already had the Termis when I bought it. The sound is 100% worth it and very unmistakeable. I've further modified mine for a more unique sound. My parent's Beagles can detect my bike when I'm about 3 miles away. It's a pretty awesome sound.
JM
Once you get an exhaust for the Monsters thats when you know how a true Ducati should sound.
Why buy a Ducati if the most important thing to you is sound? I mean lots of other bikes with pipes sound great. You have a real performance motorcycle; learn how to use it. Spend your money on track days, riding skills schools, and tires, chains and sprockets that you will wear out when use learn how to ride that real motorcycle. Pipes are for posers.
Oh, and keep in mind that no matter WHAT you do to your bike, SOMEONE will be un-happy with that. Doing what YOU want to do with YOUR bike makes you a douche; instead you should do with your bike as someone else sees fit. [roll]
Sheesh..............
Mark (poser)
Quote from: emullick on March 02, 2015, 08:18:29 PM
You have a real performance motorcycle; learn how to use it. Spend your money on track days, riding skills schools, and tires, chains and sprockets that you will wear out when use learn how to ride that real motorcycle. Pipes are for posers.
I think I see how you feel emullick: Pipes and sound are not top priority; riding, and riding well, are. I completely agree with you. However, while I'm investing in track days, schools, and replacing worn parts, I will be doing it to the thunderous and beautiful soundtrack of my Monster's roar. It's not a shortcut to "the club" for me. I'm doing it cause it makes me happy like buying an ice cream for a 5 yr old. Just indulging the inner kid :) Ultimately, I don't wanna waste the "talents" of the bike though. Little by little, I'll seek and find her limits. Then she'll have a bite to match the bark.
I took the advice of a fellow rider and invested money in track days instead of buying the sweet ass spark high mount pipes I'd been drooling over for a few months. After 3 track days worth of dragging the stock low mount mufflers (and pegs) and ultimately having a low side because of it, I got them anyway...just for the ground clearance. But the sound, oh that glorious sound.
Quote from: Triple J on February 28, 2015, 09:54:36 PM
You might be dumping a considerable amount of weight as well. I don't know how the 821 exhaust is configured, but most slip ons save decent weight. [thumbsup]
Exactly 7lbs on my Monster 1100 EVO between the stock can and the CF Termi slipon.
An almost negligible difference actually. If you dropped that much weight in the wheels you would notice it. Dropping it from the exhaust, you won't notice it.
My stock 1100 EVO cans were 12.5 pounds
My new SC Project GP-M2 weighs in at 2.87.
That's a pretty big savings off just one piece. I would expect most to come in around that weight savings. That definitely helps with the handling of the bike.
Only my old S2R800, I switched from an arrow full sytem to boomtubes and immediately noticed more neutral handling during turns. The power wasnt there but the handling more than made up for it.
In my opinion, its not the weight but rather that the weight hangs off the bike like it does. If it was more centralized like the 1199's I dont think it would make that much of a difference.
12.5 pounds combined or for a single can??
Weight.
Typical aftermarket exhaust is half to 2/3 the weight of the factory turds.
Quote from: TDavis on March 05, 2015, 11:56:01 AM
12.5 pounds combined or for a single can??
On my evo they are one piece
STOCK Weight in Pounds (NOTE: Scale is only accurate to .5 and it rounds down so its probably between 12.5 and 13)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7291/15821761404_18a065ea1f.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q77ErJ)
GP-M2 Exhaust in Pounds 2.87 lbs measured (Used a more accurate scale so weight is as listed)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7328/16443341822_94c8e1e675.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/r43qDu)
Sound. Looks. Weight.
Stock = 3.1kg
(http://sconnor1.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Modifications/Monster-Mods/i-62T3nNz/0/M/SC%20Project%20%20002-M.jpg)
SC Project = 1.4kg
(http://sconnor1.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/Modifications/Monster-Mods/i-HzLR7dX/0/M/SC%20Project%20%20003-M.jpg)
That is 3.4kg saving (i.e. more than half the weight)
* that was my old bike, the new one has Termi's which I didn't put on so didn't weigh
Damn, EVO cans are heavy! I can't remember off the top of my head how much one of my M796 cans where but I know the Mivvs where 6-8 pounds lighter combined.
Thats definitely something I'd think you'd feel, especially since the exhaust is on one side.
Only have to check out bikeboy.org to see the performance improvemt from changing pipes. Some models more than others.
The DP exhaust kit (and ecu), gave 6 more hp for a HM1100 (J D Hord website).
Remember, HP/Nm figures are now given in % since it is a more stable figure . . . Plus also remember that these depend also on many external factors as temp, altitude, fuel quality, "state of tune" of bike . . .
Many manufa turers are chamging to % instead of "hard" HP/Nm numbers . . .
That seems a smart way to do it to cover the variables.
I was quoting from Hord's dyno test of stock show room Hypers with and without the kit. They were DS models. Not bad, 80 to 86hp, that was the full 2 into 1 system and DP ecu.