After FP 1:
1. Aleix Espargaro ESP Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR) 1m 40.806s
2. Andrea Iannone ITA Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP15) 1m 41.379s +0.573s
3. Andrea Dovizioso ITA Ducati Team (Desmosedici GP15) 1m 41.527s +0.721s
4. Yonny Hernandez COL Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP14.2) 1m 41.785s +0.979s
5. Scott Redding GBR Estrella Galicia 0,0 Marc VDS (RC213V) 1m 41.884s +1.078s
6. Nicky Hayden USA Aspar (RC213V-RS) 1m 41.932s +1.126s
7. Maverick Viñales ESP Team Suzuki Ecstar (GSX-RR)* 1m 42.174s +1.368s
8. Mike Di Meglio FRA Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP14 Open) 1m 42.246s +1.440s
9. Jack Miller AUS CWM LCR Honda (RC213V-RS)* 1m 42.391s +1.585s
10. Marc Marquez ESP Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 42.605s +1.799s
11. Alvaro Bautista ESP Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP) 1m 42.828s +2.022s
12. Hector Barbera ESP Avintia Racing (Desmosedici GP14 Open) 1m 43.297s +2.491s
13. Alex De Angelis RSM Octo IodaRacing (ART) 1m 43.330s +2.524s
14. Valentino Rossi ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 1m 43.373s +2.567s
15. Pol Espargaro ESP Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1) 1m 43.390s +2.584s
16. Cal Crutchlow GBR CWM LCR Honda (RC213V) 1m 43.891s +3.085s
17. Danilo Petrucci ITA Pramac Racing (Desmosedici GP14.1) 1m 44.300s +3.494s
18. Eugene Laverty IRL Aspar (RC213V-RS)* 1m 44.313s +3.507s
19. Marco Melandri ITA Factory Aprilia Gresini (RS-GP) 1m 44.572s +3.766s
20. Jorge Lorenzo ESP Movistar Yamaha MotoGP (YZR-M1) 1m 44.750s +3.944s
21. Karel Abraham CZE Cardion AB Motoracing (RC213V-RS) 1m 45.001s +4.195s
22. Bradley Smith GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 (YZR-M1) 1m 45.237s +4.431s
23. Hiroshi Aoyama JPN Repsol Honda Team (RC213V) 1m 45.688s +4.882s
24. Stefan Bradl GER Athina Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha) 1m 45.747s
25. Loris Baz FRA Athina Forward Racing (Forward Yamaha)* 1m 46.239s +5.433s
What the hell happened? Was it raining?
Quote from: duccarlos on April 17, 2015, 08:33:13 AM
What the hell happened? Was it raining?
Dirty track and folks were trying to clean it up and lay down good rubber from what I've read. But the results were shocking to me as well. Sure FP2 will yield another shakeup.
Marquez, Rossi & Lorenzo all said the dirty condition of the track was eating tires, and they opted to save a set of tires for later sessions rather than switch to new rubber and chase times in FP1:
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/217723/1/rossi-dirty-and-difficult-fp1.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/217723/1/rossi-dirty-and-difficult-fp1.html)
I'm sick of those MotoGP tracks which are constantly dirty. Just by a damn giant, extra sticky rubber tire roll, and treat the track before the event!
Pos. Num. Rider Nation Team Bike Km/h Time Gap 1st/Prev.
1 41 Aleix ESPARGARO SPA Team SUZUKI ECSTAR Suzuki 316.1 1'38.776
2 29 Andrea IANNONE ITA Ducati Team Ducati 329.8 1'39.311 0.535 / 0.535
3 93 Marc MARQUEZ SPA Repsol Honda Team Honda 331.9 1'39.336 0.560 / 0.025
4 35 Cal CRUTCHLOW GBR CWM LCR Honda Honda 324.2 1'39.403 0.627 / 0.067
5 4 Andrea DOVIZIOSO ITA Ducati Team Ducati 325.2 1'39.434 0.658 / 0.031
6 99 Jorge LORENZO SPA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP Yamaha 323.5 1'39.463 0.687 / 0.029
7 44 Pol ESPARGARO SPA Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 327.2 1'39.648 0.872 / 0.185
8 45 Scott REDDING GBR EG 0,0 Marc VDS Honda 322.0 1'39.892 1.116 / 0.244
9 46 Valentino ROSSI ITA Movistar Yamaha MotoGP Yamaha 323.7 1'39.947 1.171 / 0.055
10 68 Yonny HERNANDEZ COL Pramac Racing Ducati 325.5 1'40.088 1.312 / 0.141
11 25 Maverick VIÃ'ALES SPA Team SUZUKI ECSTAR Suzuki 318.6 1'40.126 1.350 / 0.038
12 38 Bradley SMITH GBR Monster Yamaha Tech 3 Yamaha 327.0 1'40.195 1.419 / 0.069
13 9 Danilo PETRUCCI ITA Pramac Racing Ducati 326.5 1'40.438 1.662 / 0.243
14 69 Nicky HAYDEN USA Aspar MotoGP Team Honda 317.3 1'40.522 1.746 / 0.084
15 17 Karel ABRAHAM CZE AB Motoracing Honda 317.0 1'40.586 1.810 / 0.064
16 8 Hector BARBERA SPA Avintia Racing Ducati 327.7 1'40.626 1.850 / 0.040
17 6 Stefan BRADL GER Athinà Forward Racing Yamaha Forward 323.4 1'40.672 1.896 / 0.046
18 50 Eugene LAVERTY IRL Aspar MotoGP Team Honda 317.8 1'40.846 2.070 / 0.174
19 43 Jack MILLER AUS CWM LCR Honda Honda 320.3 1'40.864 2.088 / 0.018
20 15 Alex DE ANGELIS RSM Octo IodaRacing Team ART 309.5 1'41.152 2.376 / 0.288
21 7 Hiroshi AOYAMA JPN Repsol Honda Team Honda 325.7 1'41.380 2.604 / 0.228
22 19 Alvaro BAUTISTA SPA Aprilia Racing Team Gresini Aprilia 317.5 1'41.490 2.714 / 0.110
23 63 Mike DI MEGLIO FRA Avintia Racing Ducati 322.9 1'41.531 2.755 / 0.041
24 33 Marco MELANDRI ITA Aprilia Racing Team Gresini Aprilia 317.2 1'41.576 2.800 / 0.045
25 76 Loris BAZ FRA Athinà Forward Racing Yamaha Forward 317.4 1'41.784 3.008 / 0.208
Shows just how well balanced the zook is..
giving away 15kmh on the straight to the honda and still being that quick.
Be a very dangerous bike if they find a little more power
I think Ducati is going to have some trouble tomorrow.
I'm predicting
1. MM
2. Rossi
3. Lorenzo
4. Dovi
5. Crutchlow
This will be a boring season if the other riders don't step up to Marquez, .5 in qualifying is just insane. We are going to be watching the race for second
My guess...
1. MM
Sometime later
2. Crutchlow
3. Lorenzo
4. VR
5. Dovi or Crazy Joe
Most likely Dovi due to less tyre wear
I predict 5-9 being very close with AE being there too.
It would be more interesting to predict how many mm will lap, he's a freak,.
I'll stick my neck out now and say mm is the GOAT, all you VR lovers will call it blasphemy I know 😉
The LAMB at present, but will become the GOAT in a few years time if he continues.
Moto3 :o
Kent dominated, but second place was a battle through out.
Holy Guacamoly!!! What a race!! Go Rossi!!
Wow. Racing incident.
The Ducs did much better than what I thought they would, but still convinced that they will need an Alien to really compete.
Unbelievable VR! What a race!
Ducatis are going to be there every race this year.
MM took too many risks, and should have settled for 2nd place, at the chunks VR was gaining on him at every lap.
That race was really somethin'
Agree 100% with you duccarlos.
What happened to Lorenzo? He must really be feeling like a turd these days.
Great move by Crusty for the podium. I was hoping he would get it.
The sun got in Lorenzo's eyes. He inhaled a mosquito. Some kid gave him a dirty look.
What a race. :o
Best season openers so far in years I'd say.
Incredible racing, always a nail biter.
And to think that this time last year Rossi was fighting to just keep the contract with Yamaha... incredible.
Also... Dovi is only 6 points from leading the championship too... never thought I would see that happen on a Duc.
Quote from: thought on April 19, 2015, 01:39:20 PM
Best season openers so far in years I'd say.
Incredible racing, always a nail biter.
And to think that this time last year Rossi was fighting to just keep the contract with Yamaha... incredible.
Also... Dovi is only 6 points from leading the championship too... never thought I would see that happen on a Duc.
Absolutely. This year will be a lot more uncertain than last year.
Not only for the win, but for the podium as well, with Ducati able to be there at every race. I would have loved to see VR on this Ducati!
JLo. WTF happened to the guy? He seem to have totally lost it.
Quote from: duccarlos on April 19, 2015, 12:49:51 PM
The Ducs did much better than what I thought they would, but still convinced that they will need an Alien to really compete.
Carlos...I love ya bro...but I want whatever it is that you are smoking.
3 races in with 3 2nd places from the turnip truck by Dovi. Iannone has had a 3rd, 5th and 4th.
Dovi has finished better than Lorenzo in all 3 races. Iannone has finished better than Lorenzo in 2 out of 3.
I understand that we are only talking about 3 races so far but to say that they aren't "really" competing...come on man. Seriously?
With his choice of tire Jorghey should have been hounding Iannone and Crutchlow. He's now relegated to the same level as the Turd. They have no will to battle. He needs to be leading into the first corner to check out. He seems to just give up after a few laps knowing that the rest of the field is still not fast enough to catch him for 5th.
Quote from: ZILBERT on April 19, 2015, 02:08:48 PM
Carlos...I love ya bro...but I want whatever it is that you are smoking.
3 races in with 3 2nd places from the turnip truck by Dovi. Iannone has had a 3rd, 5th and 4th.
Dovi has finished better than Lorenzo in all 3 races. Iannone has finished better than Lorenzo in 2 out of 3.
I understand that we are only talking about 3 races so far but to say that they aren't "really" competing...come on man. Seriously?
You can always count Dovi for a podium, but he will only win a championship, and I'm going to catch some heat for this one, the same way that Nicky won his championship. His consistency will keep him in the points and if he's lucky MM and Vale will take each other out a few times. Unfortunately for him the Rossi of 2006 is not the Rossi of 2015. Vale and MM will eventually pull ahead of the pack leaving the rest fighting for 3rd. And from what we've seen, Lorenzo does not have the fight in him.
Wonder if MM will take a few less risky tyre choices from here.
Burned twice now....
Racing at the back looked to be good again by the frequent swapping of places...
Perfectly played race my VR. Steady, methodic, and always pushing.
Jorge...?? Is that what we can expect from him the rest of the season? If so, give his seat to Alex Marquez.
Any follow-up comments from MM on the incident, his tire choice, etc.?
MM disappeared into his van and did not release any comment AFAIK.
It is clearly not VR fault. MM hit VR first, than put his front tire 1' aside from VR rear tire, in an inside point where VR was going to enter a turn.
MM could not possibly keep 4 laps in front of someone eating 0.5s per lap. Likely even Dovi might have come in front of him.
georgee will say he has arm pump as well !!!!
Cracker of a race ...MM just young and learning ...Dovi ..great job
Cal is an idiot ...what the hell were the comments about in the post race interview ( on BT sports ) about the pass , and him saying crap about last year on the Duc ...the guy always looks pissed
Just read a MM interview on the news, and he does not blame VR for the accident.
He also said the extra hard tire was not a good match for his bike, so they had to pick the hard one.
OMG!!! What a race, I speculate MM attempted a cheap "REPSOL" move by trying to knock a rear wheel speed sensor of VR's Yamaha. Somebody please post a pic of VR riding away while MM was sliding on his ass.
What a race! Very happy for VR46! [clap]
Cal just clenched at the last corner. Nice.
MM is coming back with a vengeance. :'(
Fire fire fire - pramac.
Can I ask, what is all this hate for Lorenzo? Is he the new Stoner for all you haters out there? You might not like him as a person but he is a great rider/racer and a multi world champ, talk of giving up his seat, pfft, really.😠😠ðŸ˜
I think it is more perplexity over hate. As in, where is he now?
Today he vanished like only Pedro could do.
Quote from: HotIce on April 19, 2015, 03:17:00 PM
Just read a MM interview on the news, and he does not blame VR for the accident.
He also said the extra hard tire was not a good match for his bike, so they had to pick the hard one.
Good to hear. I never pegged him for a sour loser, though he doesn't lose much so I don't have a lot of data to work off of.
Quote from: ute on April 19, 2015, 02:50:40 PM
Cal is an idiot ...what the hell were the comments about in the post race interview ( on BT sports ) about the pass , and him saying crap about last year on the Duc ...the guy always looks pissed
Not sure which interview was on BT sports, but on the motoGP video he said "i'd like to thank all the people that wrote me off", which I guess was a dig at ducati. Buddy, you finished third. Progress, no doubt, but it's a little early for the screw-all-you-who-doubted me speech. Ranting never looks good, but it looks less bad when you have a trophy in your arms.
Quote from: The Don on April 19, 2015, 04:07:30 PM
Can I ask, what is all this hate for Lorenzo? Is he the new Stoner for all you haters out there? You might not like him as a person but he is a great rider/racer and a multi world champ, talk of giving up his seat, pfft, really.😠😠ðŸ˜
My give-up-seat comment was meant more in jest. I don't hate him (I don't really hate
anyone), but I'm not a fan. My reasons: he seems to take himself so seriously, which I generally am not a fan of as a character trait. Additionally, his style is more about getting ahead and running off with the race and as such he doesn't seem to have the fight in him that MM and VR do. I love that VR's two victories this year came with him a row or two back of the pole. I also love seeing MM race back from last place or wherever in Qatar after that error at the start; and I loved seeing his crazy practice lap at Austin---hell, even the way he booked it full sprint to pick up his bike and rejoin the race after his get off today. The kid's competitiveness is overt. Jorge may have it, but you'd never know. But no doubt he is talented. Anyway, that's my cause for lack of love for him, can't speak for others.
Rossi look back and then quick flick right with mm still technically next to him was shitty imo.. he also had cut mm's line on the previous corner. To me not a proud win for vr. Maybe he was upset about the ianone touch in the beginning, but it just seemed he took mm out.
He had the speed he didnt need to cut mm off.
What are you talking about?
First, MM, which had VR in front, hit him straight up.
Second, VR was in front, preparing for the next turn, and could not see MM putting his front tire right next of his rear.
Watch again ...
http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/motogp-valentino-rossi-marc-marquez-clash-in-thrilling-argentina-grand-prix-041915 (http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/motogp-valentino-rossi-marc-marquez-clash-in-thrilling-argentina-grand-prix-041915)
I did ten times and rossi did turn his head right before moving right on mm, which wasnt even the race line
Zarco did the same thing on simeon last moto2 race. Blocking is gine but not when they aee next to you, thats taking someone out
Quote from: Raux on April 19, 2015, 04:58:06 PM
I did ten times and rossi did turn his head right before moving right on mm, which wasnt even the race line
When I saw the head turn, I assumed it was just to check on him to see what happened since they had contact in the corner. I didn't think it was anything nefarious about it. The fact that he knew MM was still close behind him doesn't mean that he knew MM's tire was next to his rear or hoped to take him out. That's a big deductive leap to make.
As for the comment on whether that is the race line, I can't tell from the video. Maybe someone else has insight on this.
Quote from: Raux on April 19, 2015, 04:58:06 PM
I did ten times and rossi did turn his head right before moving right on mm, which wasnt even the race line
You seem to be the only one thinking that, as even MM and Honda has been quiet about it:
http://www.gazzetta.it/Moto/moto-GP/19-04-2015/argentina-marquez-rossi-incidente-110515010022.shtml (http://www.gazzetta.it/Moto/moto-GP/19-04-2015/argentina-marquez-rossi-incidente-110515010022.shtml)
Quote from: Raux on April 19, 2015, 04:58:06 PM
I did ten times and rossi did turn his head right before moving right on mm, which wasnt even the race line
Don't know if you have MotoGp subscription, but good view from above of the crash @ 3:25 and it looks like it is right on the dark race line:
http://www.motogp.com/en/video_update/2015/04/19/rossi-makes-up-5-secs-in-13-laps-to-beat-marquez/174263 (http://www.motogp.com/en/video_update/2015/04/19/rossi-makes-up-5-secs-in-13-laps-to-beat-marquez/174263)
I see it Kopf's way, I'll tell you why.
I have always had the opinion that Rossi was so good, so skilled, that he could make a dirty move and make it look like an honest racing incident, thereby getting away with it. His popularity always gave him a leg up in that case unless it was an obvious yellow flag incident like in Australia. There I said it...
That being said, MM can't complain.. The little bugger could learn a thing or two about "fixing someone up" and making it look innocent. [laugh]
My coach said, "Against a dirty fighter you gotta' fix 'em up, one foul per round, and make it a different foul each time to not get points deducted". I believe Rossi has that skill in spades, like a bloody Italian soccer player. [laugh] "Oh my leg, he foul me in the penalty area". ;)
So Rossi was doing to MM what was needed which is ok (Biaggi deserved it too), but he has done it to clean riders (like Gibber and Stoner) which was wrong.
This aint gymnicestics ;D
Quote from: Raux on April 19, 2015, 04:59:27 PM
Zarco did the same thing on simeon last moto2 race. Blocking is gine but not when they aee next to you, thats taking someone out
From the other shots that I saw, it looked to be Rossi getting onto the race line... I think even the announcers called that when it happened.
And I'd have to say that I really cant fault Rossi for those moves at all. He was ahead of MM, on the race line (from what I saw), and it was tight racing. MM was trying to make a pass in the turn previous where there was no room to pass and made contact first. For the second, MM should have backed off a bit but he was probably too deep into the red mist to think about that. I mean, the only other option would have been expecting Rossi to back off of the lead and change his racing line to make room for MM.
If anything I would say you should probably give MM a point or 2 for being a bit overly aggressive in that pass attempt. Replaying that clip a couple of times you can pretty much see that there was no way MM was going to fit into that corner and nothing Rossi could really do if he planned on making that next left hander.
And marquez' comment about the crsh tells me he think rossi got away with it. " I've always said that he's my idol and my reference, so you always learn things from him.
Don't think so, as when you do something like that, it takes nothing to go double down, instead only the follower. Especially upon tire contact.
That, and the fact that with 0.5s (and growing) margin per lap, and 3.5 laps to go, he knew he was going to pass MM.
Im sure rossi didnt intentionally hit him but did intend to push him off the race line. Ut marquez was too close for that move.
Quote from: Raux on April 19, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
And marquez' comment about the crsh tells me he think rossi got away with it. " I've always said that he's my idol and my reference, so you always learn things from him.
Could that have been "race handling", or "tire handling", or "someday it's better get 2nd place points, than no points"?
Eh it was right after the touch comment, so thats why I feel that way. He wasnt talking tire management nor points. He was talking touching.
Quote from: Raux on April 19, 2015, 05:33:48 PM
Im sure rossi didnt intentionally hit him but did intend to push him off the race line. Ut marquez was too close for that move.
If anything, it looked like MM pushed Rossi off the race line from the first contact and Rossi was just getting it back when the 2nd contact happened.
Either way. Raceover. I do think mm will take this as a challenge and come back with a vengeance. Rossi will end up 2nd and dovi 3rd in the championship.
Quote from: Raux on April 19, 2015, 05:38:04 PM
Either way. Raceover. I do think mm will take this as a challenge and come back with a vengeance. Rossi will end up 2nd and dovi 3rd in the championship.
I think that's actually the only chance Rossi/Dovi have when it comes to the championship. Hoping that MM makes some mistakes due to emotion because I think we all know that in a straight up dogfight MM will come out on top.
Quote from: Raux on April 19, 2015, 05:33:48 PM
Im sure rossi didnt intentionally hit him but did intend to push him off the race line. Ut marquez was too close for that move.
You seem to overlook the fact that VR was ahead, and on the race line.
You cannot expect a rider ahead to move off the race line, in order to leave free track for the follower, do you?
I'm almost positive, I don't give a make the beast with two backs. It's called racing. :P
FANTASTIC RACE.......All I can say was I kept watching the last two lap over and over again. Incredible racing by all and it was great to see the Ducs in the top 5 again. Who knew the championship would look like this coming into the season?
Quote from: 1.21GW on April 19, 2015, 04:15:52 PM
Good to hear. I never pegged him for a sour loser, though he doesn't lose much so I don't have a lot of data to work off of.
Not sure which interview was on BT sports, but on the motoGP video he said "i'd like to thank all the people that wrote me off", which I guess was a dig at ducati. Buddy, you finished third. Progress, no doubt, but it's a little early for the screw-all-you-who-doubted me speech. Ranting never looks good, but it looks less bad when you have a trophy in your arms.
My give-up-seat comment was meant more in jest. I don't hate him (I don't really hate anyone), but I'm not a fan. My reasons: he seems to take himself so seriously, which I generally am not a fan of as a character trait. Additionally, his style is more about getting ahead and running off with the race and as such he doesn't seem to have the fight in him that MM and VR do. I love that VR's two victories this year came with him a row or two back of the pole. I also love seeing MM race back from last place or wherever in Qatar after that error at the start; and I loved seeing his crazy practice lap at Austin---hell, even the way he booked it full sprint to pick up his bike and rejoin the race after his get off today. The kid's competitiveness is overt. Jorge may have it, but you'd never know. But no doubt he is talented. Anyway, that's my cause for lack of love for him, can't speak for others.
Sorry about the blast, I was having a bad day, I should of put the brain into gear before I opened my mouth
Don
Quote from: The Don on April 19, 2015, 06:04:31 PM
Sorry about the blast, I was having a bad day, I should of put the brain into gear before I opened my mouth
Don
No apology necessary. I took it as a perfectly legit question.
Quote from: duccarlos on April 19, 2015, 02:16:40 PM
You can always count Dovi for a podium, but he will only win a championship, and I'm going to catch some heat for this one, the same way that Nicky won his championship. His consistency will keep him in the points and if he's lucky MM and Vale will take each other out a few times. Unfortunately for him the Rossi of 2006 is not the Rossi of 2015. Vale and MM will eventually pull ahead of the pack leaving the rest fighting for 3rd. And from what we've seen, Lorenzo does not have the fight in him.
...and I need to know what's wrong with getting the most points of all the racers on the grid?
Isn't that how every championship is won?
Nicky may not have won many races, and he's certainly no MM, but you still have to call him a World Champion.
Break out the tin foil hats!! [roll]
The MM/Rossi incident was nothing more than hard racing. Rossi had the pace, and MM didn't want to give it up easily and got a little too aggressive. Neither did anything on purpose other than try to win the race.
Pretty good race though. Season starting off well! [thumbsup]
Dovi keeps getting seconds and he could be in it at the end. There isn't anything wrong with consistency. The question...would a Ducati championship this season need an asterisk next to it?
What I also think about is how competitive Stoner would be if he came back. Last year I would have thought he'd be right up there with them... But looking at how the field has grown and gotten stronger since he left... I'm not sure where he would be placing anymore.
I'd still dearly love to see it though haha
Quote from: ducpainter on April 19, 2015, 06:28:06 PM
...and I need to know what's wrong with getting the most points of all the racers on the grid?
Isn't that how every championship is won?
Nicky may not have won many races, and he's certainly no MM, but you still have to call him a World Champion.
I'm not taking anything away from Nicky. He won the championship, but as Rossi, MotoGP in 2015 is not MotoGP in 2006. In 2006 there was a ton more competition. Consistently finishing in the points was definitely an advantage. Now you have to consistently win, point blank. If you can't win at least a quarter of the races, you won't be winning a championship unless the other 3 guys are out. Dovi needs to find the extra edge. Jorghey and the Turd have the ability to check out when they hit the lead. MM and Rossi have the ability to race in any conditions. Can you honestly say that Dovi has the talent to consistently win? The guy is a great 2nd rider, opportunistic and difficult to pass, but he would need to be in the lead. Ducati needs to invest in getting one of the big boys while Iannone develops.
+1 on that ^
what do you think of JLo going to Ducati?
Quote from: Triple J on April 19, 2015, 07:02:07 PM
The MM/Rossi incident was nothing more than hard racing. Rossi had the pace, and MM didn't want to give it up easily and got a little too aggressive. Neither did anything on purpose other than try to win the race.
That's the way that I saw it, and I'll go one step further and say that MM was at fault for his aggression and miscalculation. You can see him sit up early while Rossi was still finishing his exit. Having been knocked off line but still leading, Rossi's line choice seems predictable and expected. Rossi was going for maximum drive and MM should have known that you can't box somebody in, from the outside, while trailing, with your front tire... This is one of the few times that Marquez has ever gotten the dirty end of the stick and I imagine he'll be a better racer because of it. Can't wait for the next bout.
Agreed...it was MM's fault from what I saw (even if a race incident). I think it's great...the guy actually likes to race, just like Rossi. Stoner, JLo, and Pedro are/were more inclined to settle for second than fight hard for 1st.
Marquez has been pulling that same, very aggressive move on riders for years; This time, he didn't get away with it....it's that simple, to me.
Quote from: duccarlos on April 19, 2015, 08:17:07 PM
I'm not taking anything away from Nicky. He won the championship, but as Rossi, MotoGP in 2015 is not MotoGP in 2006. In 2006 there was a ton more competition. Consistently finishing in the points was definitely an advantage. Now you have to consistently win, point blank. If you can't win at least a quarter of the races, you won't be winning a championship unless the other 3 guys are out. Dovi needs to find the extra edge. Jorghey and the Turd have the ability to check out when they hit the lead. MM and Rossi have the ability to race in any conditions. Can you honestly say that Dovi has the talent to consistently win? The guy is a great 2nd rider, opportunistic and difficult to pass, but he would need to be in the lead. Ducati needs to invest in getting one of the big boys while Iannone develops.
We disagree about what it takes to be champion. Winning isn't necessarily it....even today. I do agree that if one rider consistently wins, like MM, that rider will win the championship.
I don't think Nicky has any more talent than Dovi, so, to answer your question, yes under the right circumstances Dovi could be champion too.
Quote from: Triple J on April 19, 2015, 07:02:07 PM
Break out the tin foil hats!! [roll]
The MM/Rossi incident was nothing more than hard racing. Rossi had the pace, and MM didn't want to give it up easily and got a little too aggressive. Neither did anything on purpose other than try to win the race.
Thank you
Quote from: Triple J on April 19, 2015, 07:02:07 PM
Dovi keeps getting seconds and he could be in it at the end. There isn't anything wrong with consistency. The question...would a Ducati championship this season need an asterisk next to it?
Everyone knew the rules before they started racing. The asterisk would only be necessary for keyboard jockeys and haters.
Quote from: m9hundo on April 19, 2015, 08:24:39 PM
<snip>
what do you think of JLo going to Ducati?
God...I hope not
You know, the possibility of him going to Ducati has increased now. JLo needs to be where he's No.1. It's more likely than ever before.
Quote from: koko64 on April 20, 2015, 04:08:03 AM
You know, the possibility of him going to Ducati has increased now. JLo needs to be where he's No.1. It's more likely than ever before.
I'll start riding a Honda...or an Ape...or an MV. ;)
If yourghey wants to be No.1 he best start riding like a No 1.
Personally, I don't think Ducati needs a prima donna to complete the development of the bike, or for the fully developed bike to win. I think we all tend to forget the GP15 is about a month or so out of the factory.
But they need an alien. Is Jlo losing his alienidity? [laugh]
Bring back Stoner. ;D
Quote from: koko64 on April 20, 2015, 04:24:37 AM
But they need an alien. Is Jlo losing his alienidity? [laugh]
Bring back Stoner. ;D
I don't think they do need an Alien...
...and right know Your'reghey has something going on in his head that is preventing him from winning.
He won't be any help.
So you agree to bringing back Stoner to the Ducati fold? ;D
Nah...
what part of prima donna does Casey not fit? :-*
But he's an alien. Hopefully fatherhood has matured him.
Quote from: koko64 on April 20, 2015, 04:47:29 AM
But he's an alien.
Is he? Is Dani still an Alien...or George? Is
If all winning in GP was putting an Alien on a bike Aprilia could hire You'reghey and he'd win...right?
This whole discussion goes back to the Honda mentality that it's only the bike, and any rider can win...just in reverse.
It takes a package IMO, and the wrong rider on the right bike can't win any easier than the right rider on the wrong bike.
It's why they line up on Sunday...you never know what can happen once the red lights go out.
He is, or was. If the desire is still there, and it wasn't, but maybe he's sick of hunting on the farm and it's coming back. Honda knocking him back may just play into Ducati's hands (or Suzuki's). He might win on three makes yet.
I read somewhere stoner has just re-signed with HRC as a test rider, he won't be going anywhere
If he's no longer tied to Honda, he can go anywhere. ;)
Quote from: koko64 on April 20, 2015, 05:02:13 AM
He is, or was. If the desire is still there, and it wasn't, but maybe he's sick of hunting on the farm and it's coming back. Honda knocking him back may just play into Ducati's hands (or Suzuki's). He might win on three makes yet.
He should replace Melandri on the Ape.
The
whining noise would be epic. ;D
Casey has always been a talented rider and, like you say, if the desire is there he could be competitive on the right bike in GP today. Lorenzo is on the right bike...why was he 10s back in 5th, or a better question is why did he let everyone go past without much fight? Arm pump...helmet issue...spider in his leathers?
Casey's problem has always been a lack of desire for the 'show'.
Quote from: The Don on April 20, 2015, 05:08:50 AM
I read somewhere stoner has just re-signed with HRC as a test rider, he won't be going anywhere
Linky?
Keeping a winning head for many years, without melting or going into existential crisis, is what makes the difference between GOATs and couple-o-champions winners [coffee]
Quote from: ducpainter on April 20, 2015, 05:13:53 AM
Linky?
http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/01/14/hrc-renews-relationship-with-casey-stoner/165898 (http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2015/01/14/hrc-renews-relationship-with-casey-stoner/165898)
It seems that it's through 2015 and not past it. 2016 is still open and with the change to Michelins then I would say that that would be the best time for him to re enter the fold. That being said, the only spot on a factory Honda that I could see him taking up would be Pedrosa's spot but he's in contract till the end of 2016.
ahhh...knew about that one. Don's post made it sound like a 'new' deal.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 20, 2015, 04:57:17 AM
Is he? Is Dani still an Alien...or George? Is
If all winning in GP was putting an Alien on a bike Aprilia could hire You'reghey and he'd win...right?
This whole discussion goes back to the Honda mentality that it's only the bike, and any rider can win...just in reverse.
It takes a package IMO, and the wrong rider on the right bike can't win any easier than the right rider on the wrong bike.
It's why they line up on Sunday...you never know what can happen once the red lights go out.
+1 Jorghey is where he needs to be. The Yamaha fits his riding style perfectly. The Honda fits MM perfectly. If Suzuki doesn't completely ignore the program, like they did previously, they should be up there in a few years. The Ape needs the power of the unibrow.
JLO's issues have to be mental. In the case of this specific race, he's not used to coming back strong like Rossi. He's more known to be hyper aggressive on the first couple of laps. Knowing this, I would have suggested that he use the hard option tire instead of the extra hard. That would have allowed him to go off with MM, but that would have meant a battle with the kid, which must be avoided at all cost.
Two things need to happen for J-Lo to win:
1. Everything must be perfect.
2. He needs to jump out front in the first two laps.
Ducati needs a well rounded rider to jump in and help. Like Rossi ;D
Quote from: The Architect on April 20, 2015, 08:02:03 AM
Two things need to happen for J-Lo to win:
1. Everything must be perfect.
2. He needs to jump out front in the first two laps.
Ducati needs a well rounded rider to jump in and help. Like Rossi ;D
But without the Rossi debacle there would not be a new Duc. They unfortunately burned 2 bridges, Rossi and Stoner.
Quote from: duccarlos on April 20, 2015, 08:30:08 AM
But without the Rossi debacle there would not be a new Duc. They unfortunately burned 2 bridges, Rossi and Stoner.
Rossi has the right attitude and riding style for developing a bike. Casey and MM's win it or bin it attitude make it hard to develop a bike.
Quote from: The Architect on April 20, 2015, 08:02:03 AM
Two things need to happen for J-Lo to win:
1. Everything must be perfect.
2. He needs to jump out front in the first two laps.
I agree. JLo is in his own head right now. We'll see how he looks when they get back to Europe though.
Quote from: The Architect on April 20, 2015, 08:41:49 AM
Rossi has the right attitude and riding style for developing a bike. Casey and MM's win it or bin it attitude make it hard to develop a bike.
Disagree completely. Neither has a win it or bin it attitude IMO. Casey binned it a lot at the end due to the front end of the Duc being crap. MM has crashed in what, 3 races total? He's remarkably composed for his age. Either can develop a bike (HRC likely agrees, since they signed Casey as a test rider).
...and sorry everyone. Neither Rossi or Stoner will ever ride a Ducati GP bike again. Rossi will retire a Yamaha legend...and Stoner will never forgive Ducati for the way he was treated (mainly for the JLo salary offer debacle).
I'm also with DP...Yamaha can have JLo. That guy is the biggest whiner/excuse maker in the paddock.
Lorenzo has to be hurting right now. But he is a world champion and I'm sure that he will bring it back. The beginning of last season was terrible for him but he pulled it together by the end...if I remember correctly.
Jlo will be back when he learns how to have fun.
Quote from: Grampa on April 20, 2015, 11:52:24 AM
Jlo will be back when he learns how to have fun.
So... never?
Quote from: lazylightnin717 on April 20, 2015, 09:25:25 AM
Lorenzo has to be hurting right now. But he is a world champion and I'm sure that he will bring it back. The beginning of last season was terrible for him but he pulled it together by the end...if I remember correctly.
He may pick up his game but the field is much stronger so returning to second-half-last-season's form is now only good to secure 4th or 5th place. Val is improved and MM remains the alien of all aliens, plus the ducs have the power to regularly compete at the front. Hell, even the zook led for a half a lap.
Tell, me, does VR's success at yamaha have anything to do with this? My thinking is that JL was #1 and VR #2 when VR returned last year, which means any shared resources or design plans would favor JL (that is, the #1 rider). But VR starting performing better and proved to be #1 rider, in which case maybe yamaha's resources/designs switched to be VR-based? Especially in the off season. Hence VR improving over last year and JL sliding a bit.
Just a thought.
When the Yamaha was Rossi's baby, Jorghey was riding the crap out of it. I think Vale's settings suit JLO just fine, more so than the direction HRC has gone to suit MM over the Turd. I think it's more the fact that it takes longer for Jorghey to come to terms with changes. Last year he spent most of the fist half of the season just trying to figure out the new Stones. This year they get a seamless gearbox. God knows what will happen next year as they're trying to the Michelins.
I think JLo's problems mainly stem from the revised front tire. That was the start anyway...now he's in his own head a bit. Still, he may rebound in the European rounds.
His other problem is that he doesn't really like to race. He'd prefer to jump out front and put down flawless laps. Rossi and MM both love to race, and IMO this gives them a nice advantage.
Quote from: Triple J on April 20, 2015, 01:22:04 PM
His other problem is that he doesn't really like to race. He'd prefer to jump out front and put down flawless laps. Rossi and MM both love to race, and IMO this gives them a nice advantage.
+1
This is why he would storm to the front in the first few laps. He could then spend the rest of the time focused on perfecting his laps. If it was a race against the clock, he would be a force to be reckon with. I could see him doing well on a TT style race, going from A to B as quickly as possible but rarely seeing anyone else on the course.
Quote from: duccarlos on April 20, 2015, 08:30:08 AM
But without the Rossi debacle there would not be a new Duc. They unfortunately burned 2 bridges, Rossi and Stoner.
I think that's true to a point, but I doubt Ducati started losing with Stoner...lost Rossi...got a call from PM about them bailing, and then called Gigi to see if he was interested in bailing them out.
Things move really slowly in the corporate world.
I think when Stoner started losing/crashing, Melandri went nowhere, and Rossi couldn't do as well as Stoner...the wheels started in motion to find a replacement for Preziosi.
Add to the equation the Audi connection.
It wasn't all Rossi.
Lorenzo:
Quote"At the moment, I don't know how to ride when I have spinning, I can't ride like Valentino does. He rode an incredible race." His goal for the future is simple. "I have to learn to be fast again. If we can be fast again, we can fight for podiums and from there, start thinking about the victory again."
The first part is interesting. He recognizes that he doesn't have the ability to handle spinning tires, or at least not to VR's skill level.
Quote taken from here: https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/04/20/2015_argentina_motogp_post_race_round_up.html
Quote from: 1.21GW on April 20, 2015, 05:00:11 PM
Lorenzo:
The first part is interesting. He recognizes that he doesn't have the ability to handle spinning tires, or at least not to VR's skill level.
Quote taken from here: https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/04/20/2015_argentina_motogp_post_race_round_up.html
Quote from: The Architect on April 20, 2015, 08:02:03 AM
Two things need to happen for J-Lo to win:
1. Everything must be perfect.
2. He needs to jump out front in the first two laps.
<snipped the pipe dream...>
Pre4tty sure Frank hit the nail on the head...
If you can't ride "spinning tires", the only alternative is the couch ;D
Quote from: The Don on April 19, 2015, 12:13:08 AM
It would be more interesting to predict how many mm will lap, he's a freak,.
I'll stick my neck out now and say mm is the GOAT, all you VR lovers will call it blasphemy I know 😉
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/1915041/spock-s-eyebrow-raise-o.gif)
two reasons I think the bump was on purpose, maybe not to put MM in the dirt, but at least to put him off line and send him backwards:
1) the look back. I've played a lot of competitive sports. I know that look. I've given it, and received it, many times. the result after the fact is always the same: someone is on their ass.
2) Rossi was unphased after the bump. Most riders, even at that level would wobble. he was steady. He was ready for it, knowing it was coming.
Marquez is a bull in a china shop and expects to get his way when trading paint, to borrow a phrase. It didn't work that time.
Quote from: Privateer on April 20, 2015, 07:35:03 PM
1) the look back. I've played a lot of competitive sports. I know that look. I've given it, and received it, many times. the result after the fact is always the same: someone is on their ass.
What look? Do you have access x-ray footage or something that can penetrate a black visor? [roll] All I see is a brief head turn, which is probably normal given that they just made contact coming out of the corner. We can all speculate (ain't it fun? ;D), but we'll never get insider their heads or even their visors.
Quote from: Privateer on April 20, 2015, 07:35:03 PM
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view6/1915041/spock-s-eyebrow-raise-o.gif)
two reasons I think the bump was on purpose, maybe not to put MM in the dirt, but at least to put him off line and send him backwards:
1) the look back. I've played a lot of competitive sports. I know that look. I've given it, and received it, many times. the result after the fact is always the same: someone is on their ass.
2) Rossi was unphased after the bump. Most riders, even at that level would wobble. he was steady. He was ready for it, knowing it was coming.
Marquez is a bull in a china shop and expects to get his way when trading paint, to borrow a phrase. It didn't work that time.
Thats how I saw it.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7703/16599129633_e1864973b0_c.jpg)
[laugh] [clap]
"The look"! Is it similar to Blue Steel? [laugh]
I don't know about the wobble either. I personally saw a similar style crash in one of our races, and the lead guy wasn't phased either...and it most definitely wasn't intentional.
Rossi just stayed on his line and gave MM the choice...back off or run into me. It was the classic "I gave him room to be second". ;D
Quote from: Triple J on April 20, 2015, 08:56:12 AM
Disagree completely. Neither has a win it or bin it attitude IMO. Casey binned it a lot at the end due to the front end of the Duc being crap. MM has crashed in what, 3 races total?
http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/valentino-rossi-calls-marquez-an-all-or-nothing-rider-after-argentina-collision (http://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/valentino-rossi-calls-marquez-an-all-or-nothing-rider-after-argentina-collision)
It seems that I'm not the only one that feels that way about MM. "All or nothing."
And simply, MM has been very lucky. Of all the paint exchanging he's been involved in, he's only been down in 3 races. How many riders have not finished a race because of some sort of involvement with MM?
Don't get me wrong he is a great rider, I'm a big fan and Motogp would be very boring without him.
I can't find where I heard, or read it, but even Marquez has admitted he needs to learn to accept second place sometimes.
Quote from: ducpainter on April 21, 2015, 05:18:54 AM
I can't find where I heard, or read it, but even Marquez has admitted he needs to learn to accept second place sometimes.
(http://i.imgur.com/9ycWtQu.gif)
Second place is the first loser. I wonder how people described Rossi at 21 years old?
Quote from: 1.21GW on April 20, 2015, 05:00:11 PM
Lorenzo:
The first part is interesting. He recognizes that he doesn't have the ability to handle spinning tires, or at least not to VR's skill level.
Quote taken from here: https://motomatters.com/analysis/2015/04/20/2015_argentina_motogp_post_race_round_up.html
Same issues he had last year. The tires were not as grippy. From what I understand, Bridgestone decreased the grip to have more even wear. Prior to the change he felt very comfortable going batshit fast on the first lap while the other riders would need at least one lap of confidence before turning it on. Now he knows that he needs to properly warm up the tires and by then he's in traffic.
Quote from: duccarlos on April 21, 2015, 07:08:32 AM
Second place is the first loser. I wonder how people described Rossi at 21 years old?
It could be that MM after this race takes off like he did last year, and leaves the 2nd 80 points behind. But it could also be he might regret to have lost the 20 points here.
Quote from: The Architect on April 21, 2015, 05:08:20 AM
It seems that I'm not the only one that feels that way about MM. "All or nothing."
And simply, MM has been very lucky. Of all the paint exchanging he's been involved in, he's only been down in 3 races. How many riders have not finished a race because of some sort of involvement with MM?
Don't get me wrong he is a great rider, I'm a big fan and Motogp would be very boring without him.
There are quite a few examples of him settling for something other than 1st though...a couple times last year, and a couple times the year before. Including the last race in Valencia that won him the championship...he showed very smart riding in that race in particular, despite JLo trying his best to punt him off.
That doesn't mean he didn't make a mistake this race, as he clearly did. I'm just saying that classifying him as a win it or bin rider is incorrect.
As far as other riders being impacted, I don't think many...especially in MotoGP. Pedrosa last season was a fluke accident. Bautista this year was Bautista's fault...if you haven't watched it from MM's on-board please do (you need the GP subscription).
No argument that he's very aggressive though...sometimes overly so. Just like Rossi.
A pic from the crash.net twitter feed:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CC-qZASUMAEvAUf.jpg:large)
The moment Marquez clipped Rossi's rear wheel on the exit of Turn 5. #MotoGP @argmotogp
https://twitter.com/crash_motogp/status/589877424084492288/photo/1
After seeing that pic I don't think there is anyway that crash could have been avoided... MM's bike looks like it's about to slam into VR's rear.
Quote from: thought on April 21, 2015, 02:29:22 PM
After seeing that pic I don't think there is anyway that crash could have been avoided... MM's bike looks like it's about to slam into VR's rear.
Like he did 1s before that pic ...
This is the "Look"....and yes he gave it
2001 L'Alpe-d'Huez - Lance Armstrong gives Jan Ullrich "The Look" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdMdJAdzpYQ#)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/m9hundo/FOTAA9D_zpsjtc23jl5.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/m9hundo/media/FOTAA9D_zpsjtc23jl5.jpg.html)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/m9hundo/FOT89D4_zpsjolvlvzu.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/m9hundo/media/FOT89D4_zpsjolvlvzu.jpg.html)
one more for the road
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll287/m9hundo/FOT983D_zpsw8nfpd7t.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/m9hundo/media/FOT983D_zpsw8nfpd7t.jpg.html)
make the beast with two backsin' comedians are everywhere... [laugh] [laugh]
[laugh]
Haha I have to say that I'm impressed at how fast mm can sprint in race boots too. No way I could run that fast in mine.
Quote from: 1.21GW on April 20, 2015, 08:04:16 PM
What look? Do you have access x-ray footage or something that can penetrate a black visor? [roll] All I see is a brief head turn, which is probably normal given that they just made contact coming out of the corner. We can all speculate (ain't it fun? ;D), but we'll never get insider their heads or even their visors.
I know there was a look the same way the cager this morning knew I gave him a shitty look when he jumped in/out the carpool lane to pass slower traffic.
How do I know, he knew? Because he jumped into the carpool again to try and road-rage me.
Thanks for the laughs. [laugh] [clap]
When I watched the incident over and over a few times, I pissed myself laughing.
MM "take that old fart, there's a new GOAT in town".
VR "you wanna play that way sonny, take that ya little shit".
I think you guys are reading into this a little too much........
Honestly. That's exactly how I reckon it was.
Having raced (albeit only at club level, and having been at both ends of that kind of exchange, probably at half the speed), to me as I watched it I could almost see the subtitles of each rider's thought bubbles. And I thought it was very funny. Made me laugh out loud.
Looked pretty obvious to me.