Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Racing & Trackdays => Topic started by: Needle99 on June 25, 2015, 04:10:00 AM

Title: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Needle99 on June 25, 2015, 04:10:00 AM
Odd FP1 times....except for Melandri
Pos.   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Bike   Km/h   Time   Gap 1st/Prev.
1   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   302.4   1'34.357   
2   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   307.7   1'34.552   0.195 / 0.195
3   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   309.1   1'34.570   0.213 / 0.018
4   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   305.6   1'34.772   0.415 / 0.202
5   44   Pol ESPARGARO   SPA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   307.3   1'34.927   0.570 / 0.155
6   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   309.7   1'35.042   0.685 / 0.115
7   25   Maverick VIÃ'ALES   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   302.6   1'35.050   0.693 / 0.008
8   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   299.4   1'35.175   0.818 / 0.125
9   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   315.1   1'35.223   0.866 / 0.048
10   9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   304.1   1'35.271   0.914 / 0.048
11   43   Jack MILLER   AUS   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   298.4   1'35.348   0.991 / 0.077
12   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   305.1   1'35.393   1.036 / 0.045
13   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   311.5   1'35.400   1.043 / 0.007
14   6   Stefan BRADL   GER   Athinà Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   303.1   1'35.486   1.129 / 0.086
15   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   303.2   1'35.924   1.567 / 0.438
16   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   296.8   1'35.965   1.608 / 0.041
17   45   Scott REDDING   GBR   EG 0,0 Marc VDS   Honda   302.5   1'36.158   1.801 / 0.193
18   50   Eugene LAVERTY   IRL   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   298.9   1'36.223   1.866 / 0.065
19   8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   306.9   1'36.233   1.876 / 0.010
20   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   301.5   1'36.250   1.893 / 0.017
21   76   Loris BAZ   FRA   Athinà Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   298.6   1'36.423   2.066 / 0.173
22   63   Mike DI MEGLIO   FRA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   303.1   1'36.619   2.262 / 0.196
23   15   Alex DE ANGELIS   RSM   E-Motion IodaRacing Team   ART   293.0   1'37.486   3.129 / 0.867
24   33   Marco MELANDRI   ITA   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   296.0   1'37.933   3.576 / 0.447
Weather Conditions:

  |   Track Condition: Dry|   Air: 17º| Humidity: 72%|   Ground: 20º
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 25, 2015, 06:16:20 AM
FP2....

Pos.   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Bike   Km/h   Time   Gap 1st/Prev.
1   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   310.4   1'33.450   
2   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   309.8   1'33.589   0.139 / 0.139
3   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   305.6   1'33.652   0.202 / 0.063
4   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   315.3   1'33.699   0.249 / 0.047
5   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   307.7   1'33.734   0.284 / 0.035
6   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   307.5   1'33.741   0.291 / 0.007
7   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   313.3   1'33.844   0.394 / 0.103
8   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   297.5   1'33.857   0.407 / 0.013
9   9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   304.0   1'34.133   0.683 / 0.276
10   25   Maverick VIÃ'ALES   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   301.5   1'34.232   0.782 / 0.099
11   44   Pol ESPARGARO   SPA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   308.0   1'34.321   0.871 / 0.089
12   68   Yonny HERNANDEZ   COL   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   305.6   1'34.406   0.956 / 0.085
13   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   309.2   1'34.627   1.177 / 0.221
14   45   Scott REDDING   GBR   EG 0,0 Marc VDS   Honda   302.3   1'34.643   1.193 / 0.016
15   6   Stefan BRADL   GER   Athinà Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   303.7   1'34.664   1.214 / 0.021
16   76   Loris BAZ   FRA   Athinà Forward Racing   Yamaha Forward   299.7   1'34.897   1.447 / 0.233
17   50   Eugene LAVERTY   IRL   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   300.3   1'35.047   1.597 / 0.150
18   69   Nicky HAYDEN   USA   Aspar MotoGP Team   Honda   297.1   1'35.149   1.699 / 0.102
19   19   Alvaro BAUTISTA   SPA   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   300.9   1'35.489   2.039 / 0.340
20   8   Hector BARBERA   SPA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   309.4   1'35.538   2.088 / 0.049
21   43   Jack MILLER   AUS   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   300.0   1'35.646   2.196 / 0.108
22   63   Mike DI MEGLIO   FRA   Avintia Racing   Ducati   304.8   1'35.663   2.213 / 0.017
23   15   Alex DE ANGELIS   RSM   E-Motion IodaRacing Team   ART   291.1   1'36.869   3.419 / 1.206
24   33   Marco MELANDRI   ITA   Aprilia Racing Team Gresini   Aprilia   299.8   1'37.225   3.775 / 0.356
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: MadDuck on June 25, 2015, 09:33:53 AM
Some of us old futs are pulling hard for a Rossi win  [Dolph]  [thumbsup].

Wasn't there talk of Melandri only being around for another race or two before he's out of MotoGP?
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 25, 2015, 10:22:41 AM
It was mentioned, but he seems to have had an attitude adjustment.

I don't know where he'll go if he loses this ride.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Triple J on June 25, 2015, 10:56:30 AM
I think Rossi wins this one...it has become critical that he beats JLo, and he is keenly aware of that. The rain will help if it comes.

If it rain, I think JLo crashes.

MM will do well if it rains too...the slower speeds masking the Honda's problems. Otherwise he'll finish off of the podium (if he finishes).
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: m9hundo on June 25, 2015, 02:43:06 PM
9 riders running in the 1'33's with less than half a sec across the line  [popcorn]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: MadDuck on June 25, 2015, 03:57:47 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 25, 2015, 10:22:41 AM
It was mentioned, but he seems to have had an attitude adjustment.

I don't know where he'll go if he loses this ride.

Was there a rumor that Melandri would go to Yamaha for WSBK in 2016?  Back to Aprilia WSBK?  Doubt that as they are doing pretty OK with Haslam and the new kid this year.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: OT on June 25, 2015, 08:36:13 PM
Could be wrong, but I think this one of Rossi's best/favorite tracks
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: lazylightnin717 on June 26, 2015, 05:56:04 AM
He finally put in a qualifying worth mentioning
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on June 26, 2015, 06:26:13 AM
Rossi... make the beast with two backs yeah!!

Pos.   Num.   Rider   Nation   Team   Bike   Km/h   Time   Gap 1st/Prev.
1   46   Valentino ROSSI   ITA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   313.0   1'32.627   
2   41   Aleix ESPARGARO   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   300.5   1'32.858   0.231 / 0.231
3   93   Marc MARQUEZ   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   314.5   1'32.886   0.259 / 0.028
4   26   Dani PEDROSA   SPA   Repsol Honda Team   Honda   314.2   1'32.987   0.360 / 0.101
5   44   Pol ESPARGARO   SPA   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   311.2   1'33.013   0.386 / 0.026
6   29   Andrea IANNONE   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   315.8   1'33.016   0.389 / 0.003
7   35   Cal CRUTCHLOW   GBR   CWM LCR Honda   Honda   311.8   1'33.028   0.401 / 0.012
8   99   Jorge LORENZO   SPA   Movistar Yamaha MotoGP   Yamaha   308.3   1'33.042   0.415 / 0.014
9   25   Maverick VIÃ'ALES   SPA   Team SUZUKI ECSTAR   Suzuki   304.4   1'33.076   0.449 / 0.034
10   4   Andrea DOVIZIOSO   ITA   Ducati Team   Ducati   317.9   1'33.112   0.485 / 0.036
11   9   Danilo PETRUCCI   ITA   Octo Pramac Racing   Ducati   308.9   1'33.126   0.499 / 0.014
12   38   Bradley SMITH   GBR   Monster Yamaha Tech 3   Yamaha   311.8   1'33.236   0.609 / 0.110
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: thought on June 26, 2015, 08:13:43 AM
Go Rossi :D
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: triangleforge on June 26, 2015, 08:31:14 AM
Assen has seen some epic battles over the years, and the stage is set for another.  [thumbsup]

I'm going to predict a dogfight between Rossi & Marquez going into the finish, with Marquez staying atop the bike this time but Vale on the top step. Pedrosa's looking strong and hungry again, and will round out the podium.

It's sad to see the Ducs mired back in the mid-pack again these past two races; I read a bit about their difficulties coming to terms with the rough surface at Catalunya, but I'm not sure what's up this weekend.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 26, 2015, 12:25:16 PM
I'm pulling for Maverick Viñales cause that's a bad ass name.  8)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: m9hundo on June 26, 2015, 12:50:25 PM
Marquez is showing great pace in the 1'33's but with 9 riders separated by less than half a second the stage is surely set for a dog fight.

VR all in [thumbsup]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ZLTFUL on June 26, 2015, 01:10:26 PM
ROSSI
ROSSI
ROSSI
OI
OI
OI

;D
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: HotIce on June 27, 2015, 07:06:39 AM
Again, for the second time this year, MM thought to be the Queen, and believed the racer ahead should just leave the race line to make space for him  [thumbsdown]
Luck wanted VR did not crash both times.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on June 27, 2015, 07:40:03 AM
Quote from: HotIce on June 27, 2015, 07:06:39 AM
Again, for the second time this year, MM thought to be the Queen, and believed the racer ahead should just leave the race line to make space for him  [thumbsdown]
Luck wanted VR did not crash both times.


MM took the inside line, it just so happened that Rossi is Rossi and just rode straight through. And JLo wanted nothing to do with that fight at all.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: DarkMonster620 on June 27, 2015, 07:48:07 AM
But, now HRC is cryin' foul play . . . Oh wait, it is all coming back . . . my memory is working, the Corkscrew pass on Stoner . . . he also went through the gravel . . .
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: m9hundo on June 27, 2015, 08:05:34 AM
Yeah how about the bump on JLo in 2013 that resulted in the infamous finger wave, and knocking teammate Pedrosa's brake sensor off in 2014.  They both raced a terrific race at an incredible pace just another desperate move by MM almost wiped out both of them.  When VR passed him to retake the lead did anybody catch the moment MM had? I swear I nearly had a heart attack when I saw VR run off the track initially.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: thought on June 27, 2015, 08:32:15 AM
Hell of a race. No matter the drama... The series should have every race end up with Rossi and mm going into the final corner together.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on June 27, 2015, 08:36:09 AM
They should make a whole series of 1 lap races with just MM and Rossi.

Notice that MM cut the corner as well, not as much as Rossi, but he sure as hell did not leave any other move. He's just playing the game. It's like soccer players and their miraculous recoveries.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: SpikeC on June 27, 2015, 12:53:54 PM
Great finish to a close race! Rossi won it fair and square!
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: HotIce on June 27, 2015, 01:01:39 PM
After Assen, it seems VR asked for a new special set of tires for the next GP  ;D


(http://www.cedarrapidstire.com//images/W/vee-rubber-vrm-394-dirt-track.jpg)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: OT on June 27, 2015, 02:03:26 PM
Quote from: SpikeC on June 27, 2015, 12:53:54 PM
Great finish to a close race! Rossi won it fair and square!
+1

"Classical" MM tactics on the last bit - so desperate to get past Rossi that he wasn't even thinking beyond the pass.... trying to stuff himself inside VR's RIGHT side (Rossi had covered the left) at the entry to a chicane that goes LEFT in the middle --- no hope of safely getting thru the chicane without cutting Rossi off or, worse, causing a collision that takes both of them down.

The kid's predatory instincts are over the top...he needs tranquilizers in his water bottle...
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 02:26:17 PM
What a battle, but I don't get how it's 'legal' to pass off of the racing surface.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 27, 2015, 02:30:44 PM
Quote from: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 02:26:17 PM
What a battle, but I don't get how it's 'legal' to pass off of the racing surface.
It isn't.

Rossi was leading when Marquez made his move.

Whether Marquez pushed him wide, or whether Rossi realized is only chance to stay in the lead was to make the off track excursion, we'll never really know.

The fact there was contact is enough to let race direction let it go.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 02:42:09 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 27, 2015, 02:30:44 PM

Whether Marquez pushed him wide, or whether Rossi realized is only chance to stay in the lead was to make the off track excursion, we'll never really know.


He did, and he did. I'm throwing the bullshit flag.  :D
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 27, 2015, 02:48:05 PM
Quote from: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 02:42:09 PM
He did, and he did. I'm throwing the bullshit flag.  :D
So you think Rossi went straight on purpose?

Watching the press conference was hysterical. Someone asked Marquez what he would do if he was in Rossi's position.

Marquez answered...'After my experience today I know just what to do.'

Rossi laughed his ass off. ;)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 02:53:21 PM
No, not at all. He got ran off, but you still can't pass off the racing surface.  ;)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 27, 2015, 02:54:35 PM
Quote from: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 02:53:21 PM
No, not at all. He got ran off, but you still can't pass off the racing surface.  ;)
He didn't pass.

Marquez was never in front.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 02:56:37 PM
I guess turn around is fair play.  :D

http://youtu.be/5-FD76BwB08 (http://youtu.be/5-FD76BwB08)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 27, 2015, 02:59:13 PM
Yup...they love it. George wanted no part of it. He was happy to be 5 seconds back.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 03:08:14 PM
The champagne celebration was hilarious. Jorge showed a bit of his fun side.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 27, 2015, 03:09:48 PM
Quote from: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 03:08:14 PM
The champagne celebration was hilarious. Jorge showed a bit of his fun side.
I missed the podium.

I'll have to check it out
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 03:16:54 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 27, 2015, 03:09:48 PM
I missed the podium.

I'll have to check it out

He actually showed some personality. It was funny.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: The Architect on June 27, 2015, 03:26:39 PM
Quote from: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 03:16:54 PM
He actually showed some personality. It was funny.

I won't believe it till I see it.

Now that was a race!
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: lazylightnin717 on June 27, 2015, 06:06:07 PM
I'd still like to see more action up front.

It was nice to see MM looking like himself.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
Quote from: lazylightnin717 on June 27, 2015, 06:06:07 PM
I'd still like to see more action up front.

It was nice to see MM looking like himself.

Doesn't get much better than that for the win.  ;)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ZLTFUL on June 27, 2015, 06:42:02 PM
Quote from: ZILBERT on June 26, 2015, 01:10:26 PM
ROSSI
ROSSI
ROSSI
OI
OI
OI

;D

I'll just leave this right here...
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: OT on June 27, 2015, 10:25:28 PM
Quote from: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 02:42:09 PM
He did, and he did. I'm throwing the bullshit flag.  :D
?It takes less than 2-3 seconds to ride thru that chicane...Rossi had nowhere else to go with MM jammed up against the right side of his bike at the entry.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 10:29:33 PM
Quote from: OT on June 27, 2015, 10:25:28 PM
?It takes less than 2-3 seconds to ride thru that chicane...Rossi had nowhere else to go with MM jammed up against the right side of his bike at the entry.

[thumbsup]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: lazylightnin717 on June 28, 2015, 07:45:24 AM
Quote from: kopfjäger on June 27, 2015, 06:18:17 PM
Doesn't get much better than that for the win.  ;)

Agreed. I just meant more people in contention for the win.

Not the two of them turning laps until the last 3 when MM decides to make a move.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: HotIce on June 28, 2015, 07:54:14 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 27, 2015, 02:54:35 PM
He didn't pass.

Marquez was never in front.
Yep. The sky view clearly shows that, while the side view doesn't.
Basically, MM just went straight into that corner. Even w/out VR in front, I doubt he could have completed the turns using a decent line.
IMO, he just aimed at VR  ;D
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: m9hundo on June 28, 2015, 09:14:04 AM
^ totally agree with your analysis

And did Marquez really think he won that race? He was flying his flag for he parade lap as if he won.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: DarkMonster620 on June 28, 2015, 09:30:23 AM
Ok, here is proof that MM also cuts corners

(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11221783_868850853184909_987864951754274096_n.jpg?oh=f95779f57adf1775bfc555a7f0fe5098&oe=5617BED6)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: triangleforge on June 28, 2015, 12:38:52 PM
I'm in total agreement that Rossi won the race fair & square, and that Marquez' pass attempt carried a higher chance for disaster than success.

But...

There have been enough motorcycle races won/lost in that last chicane at Assen that Rossi had to know Marquez would be exactly there on his right side going into the first kink - and he even invited it by leaving the door ajar. Even for a racer whose mind works as fast as Vale's, the decision to gun it through the gravel seemed awfully simultaneous to (and maybe even a skosh before) the contact. Is it possible that there was a plan B in Rossi's head going into that final stretch, exactly as it played out? Jared Earle said it better than I can in the Moto Matters wrap up:

Did Rossi play the youngster like a fiddle to guarantee the win? Only Valentino knows, but he did seem survive the impact a little cleanly. Let's call it racecraft and look forward to the next race.
https://motomatters.com/results/2015/06/27/2015_assen_motogp_race_result_assen_deli.html (https://motomatters.com/results/2015/06/27/2015_assen_motogp_race_result_assen_deli.html)

Whether it was astounding riding when things went weird or clever racecraft that went exactly according to plan, my hat's off to Rossi for a well-deserved win that will be part of highlight reels for years to come.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: HotIce on June 28, 2015, 03:03:36 PM
It seems a little bit too elaborated as a plan  [roll]
Especially when you play with 100mph speeds.
MM had nowhere to go, with that angle, and that speed, besides hitting VR, who was on his race line (check aerial view at time of accident, and previous laps).
I wonder, does it really need to take someone getting seriously injured, before MM gets penalized for these maneuvers?
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 28, 2015, 04:02:25 PM
I think Rossi did play him like the worlds smallest violin. ;)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 28, 2015, 04:39:01 PM
Quote from: HotIce on June 28, 2015, 03:03:36 PM

I wonder, does it really need to take someone getting seriously injured, before MM gets penalized for these maneuvers?


Naga...naga...nagonna happen. Ask Nicky what happened when his then teammate took him out when he was fighting for the championship.  ;)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: triangleforge on June 28, 2015, 06:56:58 PM
Quote from: HotIce on June 28, 2015, 03:03:36 PM
It seems a little bit too elaborated as a plan  [roll]
Especially when you play with 100mph speeds.
MM had nowhere to go, with that angle, and that speed, besides hitting VR, who was on his race line (check aerial view at time of accident, and previous laps).
I wonder, does it really need to take someone getting seriously injured, before MM gets penalized for these maneuvers?


It's s scientifically proven fact that MotoGP racers' brains turn to mush and they are unable to think of anything other than bladder control at speeds in excess of 75.6 mph. Strategy? Tactics? It's simply not humanly possible at those speeds. Now it's my turn to  [roll]

Seriously. Valentino Rossi didn't just leave the door open on the right going into that corner, he hung a "Welcome y'all, and bring yer friends!" sign on it. If he was the least bit - the tiniest bit - surprised to find Marc Marquez bumping at his elbow right there and right then, Valentino Rossi is an idiot.



Valentino Rossi is not an idiot.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on June 29, 2015, 06:18:46 AM
Why are we debating this when the 2 riders have accepted the decision of race direction? Thy made it clear that Rossi was leading and that there was contact warranting the move also considering that MM cut the corner as well. Rossi did not gain a position either and race direction also said that Rossi was on the "traditional" racing line. No one here is a mind reader.

Did anyone see the Moto3 save of the year?

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2015/06/27/ajo-s-superstar-save/178889 (http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2015/06/27/ajo-s-superstar-save/178889)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 29, 2015, 06:25:00 AM
Quote from: duccarlos on June 29, 2015, 06:18:46 AM
Why are we debating this when the 2 riders have accepted the decision of race direction? Thy made it clear that Rossi was leading and that there was contact warranting the move also considering that MM cut the corner as well. Rossi did not gain a position either and race direction also said that Rossi was on the "traditional" racing line. No one here is a mind reader.

Did anyone see the Moto3 save of the year?

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2015/06/27/ajo-s-superstar-save/178889 (http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2015/06/27/ajo-s-superstar-save/178889)
'Cuz we're all a bunch of keyboard racers. ;D

I did see that...lucky to not collect the wall there huh? :o
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: koko64 on June 29, 2015, 06:30:54 AM
Yeah, great save. Kind of surfing save.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: thought on June 29, 2015, 07:19:25 AM
Quote from: duccarlos on June 29, 2015, 06:18:46 AM
Why are we debating this when the 2 riders have accepted the decision of race direction? Thy made it clear that Rossi was leading and that there was contact warranting the move also considering that MM cut the corner as well. Rossi did not gain a position either and race direction also said that Rossi was on the "traditional" racing line. No one here is a mind reader.

Did anyone see the Moto3 save of the year?

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2015/06/27/ajo-s-superstar-save/178889 (http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2015/06/27/ajo-s-superstar-save/178889)

Just came here to post that haha... that's a CEII level save there
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Triple J on June 29, 2015, 10:44:22 AM
What a race!!  [thumbsup] [thumbsup] [thumbsup]

DP is right...MM wasn't ever ahead. The helicopter view shows that Rossi was always about 1/2 a wheel ahead.

That said...I think Rossi knew what he was doing. He didn't mean to go through the gravel, but he knew MM was there on his inside, and he shut the door (hard) on purpose. He didn't necessarily cause the contact, but he didn't avoid it either. He could have left MM a bit of space, but that isn't his style.

I also don't see anything at all wrong with MM's move. You don't win MotoGP races by waiting for perfect passing opportunities. Him and Rossi are more alike than they are different IMO.

Good stuff!!  [bow_down]

Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on June 29, 2015, 11:09:58 AM
Quote from: Triple J on June 29, 2015, 10:44:22 AM
I also don't see anything at all wrong with MM's move. You don't win MotoGP races by waiting for perfect passing opportunities. Him and Rossi are more alike than they are different IMO.

This ^^

We got so used to the tiptoeing when trying to pass that we forgot what real racing looks like. MM tried a pass and Rossi reacted to it. Let them race and stop your pregnant dogin.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Triple J on June 29, 2015, 11:39:39 AM
Motomatters has a great article on it (same article on Asphalt & Rubber).

Interesting to see Rossi becoming less friendly with MM too. Not unsurprising though...he has a legitimate shot at the championship, and MM is a threat to spoil things...1st time those two conditions have aligned. You don't win as many championships as Rossi has by being a nice guy all the time!  :)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: m9hundo on June 29, 2015, 12:33:01 PM
It's VR and Biaggi all over again

Looks like MM will not be visiting VR's ranch any time soon.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: HotIce on June 29, 2015, 01:05:45 PM
Quote from: triangleforge on June 28, 2015, 06:56:58 PM
Valentino Rossi is not an idiot.
I know!
There are a few square miles around where he born, that only produce geniuses  ;D
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: thought on June 29, 2015, 01:07:45 PM
Quote from: Triple J on June 29, 2015, 11:39:39 AM
Motomatters has a great article on it (same article on Asphalt & Rubber).

Interesting to see Rossi becoming less friendly with MM too. Not unsurprising though...he has a legitimate shot at the championship, and MM is a threat to spoil things...1st time those two conditions have aligned. You don't win as many championships as Rossi has by being a nice guy all the time!  :)

Was just about to point everyone to that same article too.  Emmet makes another great point where this might be the best way to teach MM to stop bullying into people's lines... by simply using his aggression against him.  MM will def think a second or two more before trying that again on Rossi as he's now been burnt twice for being overly aggressive in trying to pass VR. To me, that's the real mind game that VR is pulling on MM... not that that's ever going to stop MM from trying to push his way into the corner anyway.

What I think might be the bigger issue later in the season is how aggressive MM's going to be when he has nothing to lose and VR/JLo have the championship to lose with one off.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: HotIce on June 29, 2015, 01:56:13 PM
Today even Iannone made remarks on MM acting like if he was in a bumper car track  [coffee]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on June 29, 2015, 02:41:53 PM
Quote from: HotIce on June 29, 2015, 01:56:13 PM
Today even Iannone made remarks on MM acting like if he was in a bumper car track  [coffee]

The Maniac shouldn't throw stones in his glass house. ;D
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: kopfjäger on June 29, 2015, 02:46:45 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 29, 2015, 02:41:53 PM
The Maniac shouldn't throw stones in his glass house. ;D

[laugh]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: The Architect on June 30, 2015, 06:37:14 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 29, 2015, 02:41:53 PM
The Maniac shouldn't throw stones in his glass house. ;D

That's going to have me laughing for a while! Priceless.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Duck-Stew on June 30, 2015, 06:54:46 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on June 29, 2015, 02:41:53 PM
The Maniac shouldn't throw stones in his glass house. ;D

[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [thumbsup]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Blackout on June 30, 2015, 08:57:52 AM
Marquez is still very young. He'll learn what he can and can't get away with.

(http://www.fz09.org/forum/attachments/6917d1428682417-amazing-video-rossi-marquez-bhu96q4ceaam9pv.jpg)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: 1.21GW on June 30, 2015, 09:10:15 AM
I just realized that there are still 10 races left.  If the 2014 chassis is indeed the solution to MM's problems and we now have MM ca. 2014 back, then this will be a wild second half of the season.  74 pts in 10 races is not insurmountable for the man that began last season by winning 11 of the first 12 races, although it would require Val and George to have a race or two with a low finish/DNF.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on June 30, 2015, 10:42:32 AM
Jorghey and Vale would need to take each other out for that to even be a possibility.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: thought on June 30, 2015, 11:09:00 AM
Or MM would need to take out VR in one race and JLo in another while staying on his bike both times.

I see that as more likely than VR and JLo taking each other out.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: koko64 on June 30, 2015, 03:47:30 PM
They call it the Capirossi Plan. ;D
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Triple J on June 30, 2015, 03:48:15 PM
It's possible, but MM would need help.

That said...go back and look at the seasons for JLo and Rossi...it's rare for them (or any racer) to complete a season without a DNF/DNS.

Still a lot of season to go...and could get really interesting.  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on June 30, 2015, 07:04:55 PM
It just feels like they both need 2 DNFs for him to manage a comeback.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: The Don on June 30, 2015, 10:14:15 PM
Quote from: koko64 on June 30, 2015, 03:47:30 PM
They call it the Capirossi Plan. ;D
Touche
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Triple J on June 30, 2015, 10:35:03 PM
Quote from: duccarlos on June 30, 2015, 07:04:55 PM
It just feels like they both need 2 DNFs for him to manage a comeback.

Most likely...that or a couple really bad finishes, which isn't likely. Who knows, JLo is always just a breath away from a massive high side.  ;D
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: lazylightnin717 on July 01, 2015, 02:43:35 AM
Quote from: koko64 on June 30, 2015, 03:47:30 PM
They call it the Capirossi Plan. ;D

[laugh]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on July 01, 2015, 08:54:03 AM
I love that now the press are turning it into the new Rossi vs whateveryoungbuck rivalry. The funny part is that they will continue asking until the MM and Vale start thinking that it must be true.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: 1.21GW on July 01, 2015, 09:08:58 AM
Here's what I don't get: even if MM had made it through on the right of the final chicane and there was either no contact or contact was not enough to push VR off the track, how was he going to handle the second half of the chicane?  He could not have thought he'd be a full bike length ahead, and so assuming they were nearly neck-and-neck with MM out 1/2 length or less, wouldn't Rossi still be in the better position for the left?

I get that it's the last corner and if you are a true racer-alien, you gotta at least try.  But what was the strategy after he theoretically nudged in on the first part of the chicane?
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: ducpainter on July 01, 2015, 09:46:13 AM
Quote from: 1.21GW on July 01, 2015, 09:08:58 AM
<snip>  But what was the strategy after he theoretically nudged in on the first part of the chicane?
Rossi goes in the gravel and either doesn't finish or finishes second. ;)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: HotIce on July 01, 2015, 02:14:11 PM
Quote from: 1.21GW on July 01, 2015, 09:08:58 AM
But what was the strategy after he theoretically nudged in on the first part of the chicane?
My point exactly. That move had nothing for it, besides sending VR off. Dumper car track kind of move.
Even if this was magic videogame, and VR was transparent, MM would have gone VERY long on that turn, and VR would have nailed him with the better race line he was onto.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: duccarlos on July 01, 2015, 02:34:22 PM
You're in second place going into the last turn, what do you do? You race.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: 1.21GW on July 01, 2015, 03:47:24 PM
Quote from: duccarlos on July 01, 2015, 02:34:22 PM
You're in second place going into the last turn, what do you do? You race.

True.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Triple J on July 01, 2015, 04:01:01 PM
Quote from: HotIce on July 01, 2015, 02:14:11 PM
My point exactly. That move had nothing for it, besides sending VR off. Dumper car track kind of move.
Even if this was magic videogame, and VR was transparent, MM would have gone VERY long on that turn, and VR would have nailed him with the better race line he was onto.


Disagree...completely.

First...if you don't try, then you don't win. There was absolutely zero wrong with the move, and I'd bet a paycheck that Rossi would have tried the EXACT same move if in MM's position.

Second, even though Rossi would have been better set-up for the second half of the chicane, if he would have avoided the collision and let MM in unmolested (and I'm pretty sure MM could have made that turn), he would have been off-line a bit and gotten a terrible drive onto the straight. This could have given MM the chance to out drag race him to the line.

MM is no dummy. He's seen that move before, and had been practicing that line. The problem with the move was that Rossi knew it was coming, and had a plan...because he's Rossi.

Here's another
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBf-PZkmi4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlBf-PZkmi4#)


Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: koko64 on July 01, 2015, 05:31:56 PM
Rossi did a similar move on Gibber years ago, he put Gibber in the dirt and won the race. He dominated the championship from there. Forget what year it was, someone will remember.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: triangleforge on July 01, 2015, 06:17:01 PM
Drive out of that last corner seems to be the key, and it's entirely possible to win from the right side (skip forward to around 4:30 to see the last of the race) - in this one, Bayliss passes on the right side in the third & final right kink of the chicane, rather than the first - possibly because he was too far back going into the combination to even attempt a pass:

SBK 2007 - Assen Race 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55UzyNyVFH8#)

I would agree with Triple J - if Marquez could have gotten a wheel ahead through the first right and held it through the left (a whopping big IF), he would have been in good shape for the final drive out of the chicane.

It's interesting in the video posted a bit earlier that Colin Edwards tried the same move on Hayden as Marquez did on Rossi; Hayden ended up gassing through the gravel like Rossi, but Edwards crashed. Glad it didn't end that way this time around.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Triple J on July 01, 2015, 06:21:54 PM
Quote from: koko64 on July 01, 2015, 05:31:56 PM
Rossi did a similar move on Gibber years ago, he put Gibber in the dirt and won the race. He dominated the championship from there. Forget what year it was, someone will remember.

Here ya go...corner is a little different, but Rossi pretty much pulling the same move as MM. Rossi is reckless!!  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N42HYwuyOg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N42HYwuyOg8#)

(how are you guys getting videos to embed?)
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: triangleforge on July 01, 2015, 06:27:27 PM
If I delete the "s" from the "https," it seems to embed in the post. Give it a shot.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: 1.21GW on July 01, 2015, 06:32:25 PM
Quote from: triangleforge on July 01, 2015, 06:17:01 PM
Drive out of that last corner seems to be the key, and it's entirely possible to win from the right side (skip forward to around 4:30 to see the last of the race) - in this one, Bayliss passes on the right side in the third & final right kink of the chicane, rather than the first - possibly because he was too far back going into the combination to even attempt a pass:

SBK 2007 - Assen Race 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55UzyNyVFH8#)

I would agree with Triple J - if Marquez could have gotten a wheel ahead through the first right and held it through the left (a whopping big IF), he would have been in good shape for the final drive out of the chicane.

It's interesting in the video posted a bit earlier that Colin Edwards tried the same move on Hayden as Marquez did on Rossi; Hayden ended up gassing through the gravel like Rossi, but Edwards crashed. Glad it didn't end that way this time around.

Wow.  Just wow.   :o  What a finish!!


I see your/JJJ's point---if the outside rider on the first/right turn of the chicane gets moved too far off the race line, he has to turn more on the second/left turn rather than run it straight through.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: Triple J on July 01, 2015, 06:40:03 PM
Quote from: triangleforge on July 01, 2015, 06:27:27 PM
If I delete the "s" from the "https," it seems to embed in the post. Give it a shot.

Sweet!  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: OT on July 03, 2015, 07:19:16 AM
Quote from: Triple J on July 01, 2015, 06:21:54 PM
Here ya go...corner is a little different, but Rossi pretty much pulling the same move as MM. Rossi is reckless!!  ;)

Reckless, indeed.  ;D

In the video, Sete had no idea Rossi was even there - otherwise, he could have stayed on the track if he'd anticipated that inside move, which he didn't, and that is why Rossi always owned him.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: koko64 on July 03, 2015, 07:06:48 PM
Yep he had his measure.^
Rossi knew MM would try there and had a counter move. Hes a good "boxer".  Rossi has a counter move for his own moves so he can anticipate MM similar playbook.
Title: Re: MotoGP Assen *******spoilers*****
Post by: MadDuck on July 04, 2015, 10:44:46 PM
Quote from: Triple J on July 01, 2015, 06:21:54 PM
Here ya go...corner is a little different, but Rossi pretty much pulling the same move as MM. Rossi is reckless!!  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N42HYwuyOg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N42HYwuyOg8#)

(how are you guys getting videos to embed?)

Not reckless,per se, but very calculating & devious.  That was great racing, as good as anything we've ever seen. A shame if it was after that incident that Rossi got into Gibernau's head.