Thinking about ditching the Outback, what's good these days?
Depends what you want it to do. Needs/budget/wants go!
Seats 4, room for sports stuff, work stuff, but small enough to be able to park in a typical parking garage. The Outback was great size wise, but the dealership and factory are make the beast with two backsing us around with an oil consumption problem.
I'm anti GMC , Chevy, and Dodge,...I hold bailout grudges.
My CR-V has been flawless.
Utterly uninspiring, but dead reliable.
You sound like small foreign SUV-highlander, CR-V-something like that should be fine.
I can bring the old subaru to dimby if you'd like. [evil]
These would be my choices in order of increasing performance and price but decreasing cargo space in the Subie size range.
Ford Edge
Honda Crosstour (2015 was the last year I think)
Porsche Cayenne
I'd avoid anything Audi
We're real happy with our Escape.
Quote from: ungeheuer on January 30, 2016, 04:01:12 AM
Why? (Just out of interest.......).
Very happy with my SQ5. Audi is fine.
I assume AWD too -- coming from Subie you probably think everything is AWD.
My wife has the Kia Sorento EX AWD (2011 model) and it has been flawless, bought it new in 2010.
We test drove everything in the same class that year and would buy it again, unhesitatingly.
There are some quirks which they've worked out since then. Things that I consider to be "korean market" things like there is power controls only on the driver's seat. Ours is a first-year desgin model and the suspension is truck-like. THey softened it up quite a bit and the current model is lower riding
We are looking to replace it with a smaller SUV -- that means Honda CRV, Ford Escape or Edge or Kia Sportage.
The Kias do not get the best-in-class MPG compared with identical class motors, but the motors are well designed. Pete Schreyer from Audi is their designer and they look like older model Audis to me.
If MPG is your thing, look at the Ford Escape, it gets the best in class but it has a 1.6 motor. Hondas are indestructible but they are the most expensive. We did not like the finish on the Toyodas.
'15 and up CR-V has the newer direct injection iirc.
Go test drive stuff Joel, and when you're done, just bring me the Subaru and I'll handle the burning duties.
Mazda CX5 . . . Ford Escape . . . Honda CR-V . . . MB GLA 250 . . . Nissan Rogue . . .
Golf R Wolfsburg Edition
VW Jetta Wagon . . .
Still happy with my (bought new) 2010 A4 Avant. Unfortunately the newer ones are almost All Roads and are a little taller.
Quote from: ducatiz on January 30, 2016, 12:58:06 PM
I assume AWD too -- coming from Subie you probably think everything is AWD.
My wife has the Kia Sorento EX AWD (2011 model) and it has been flawless, bought it new in 2010.
We test drove everything in the same class that year and would buy it again, unhesitatingly.
There are some quirks which they've worked out since then. Things that I consider to be "korean market" things like there is power controls only on the driver's seat. Ours is a first-year desgin model and the suspension is truck-like. THey softened it up quite a bit and the current model is lower riding
We are looking to replace it with a smaller SUV -- that means Honda CRV, Ford Escape or Edge or Kia Sportage.
The Kias do not get the best-in-class MPG compared with identical class motors, but the motors are well designed. Pete Schreyer from Audi is their designer and they look like older model Audis to me.
Spot on Mate!
We absolutely love our current model Kia Sorento.
I'd have a Sportage too if I needed to purchase another car.
Quote from: Grampa on January 29, 2016, 08:22:06 PM
Seats 4, room for sports stuff, work stuff, but small enough to be able to park in a typical parking garage. The Outback was great size wise, but the dealership and factory are make the beast with two backsing us around with an oil consumption problem.
I'm anti GMC , Chevy, and Dodge,...I hold bailout grudges.
Mate have you tried using Mobil Delvac with your Subie??? It's a diesel oil which can also be used for petrol engines.......I guess you already know that subies in general use a bit of oil anyway, my tuner highly recommends Melvac for all the subie engines he builds (he's a subie mechanic who also races subies) [beer] [beer]
Quote from: Grampa on January 29, 2016, 08:22:06 PM
Seats 4, room for sports stuff, work stuff, but small enough to be able to park in a typical parking garage. The Outback was great size wise, but the dealership and factory are make the beast with two backsing us around with an oil consumption problem.
I'm anti GMC , Chevy, and Dodge,...I hold bailout grudges.
How much oil?
Almost 2 quarts per 7500 miles.
Just double your oil change frequency and you'll only lose one quart.
Quote from: Grampa on January 31, 2016, 07:27:12 AM
Almost 2 quarts per 7500 miles.
I know you don't want to hear it...but...
that's nothing. My old 900 will use a pint at a track day. IMO excessive oil consumption would be a quart in 1K.
If you like the car, and it runs well, run it and add oil. Cheaper than the alternatives.
"Audi, BMW, and Subaru stick firmly to the statement that oil consumption is a normal part of a car’s operation. Subaru considers a quart burned every 1,000 to 1,200 miles to be acceptable. Certain Audi and BMW cars’ standards state that a quart burned every 600 to 700 miles is reasonable."
Ive had 2 of these now. Love them.
It tows, seats fold down flat,or neary flat depending on which year you get, about 17mpg around town 20-21 on the highway, decent ground clearance (that comes in handy in deep snow) and of course AWD.
You can find a good used one for less that 12,000 if you look around.
(http://i1201.photobucket.com/albums/bb347/dapaoli/image_zpsiq8o5qvb.jpeg) (http://s1201.photobucket.com/user/dapaoli/media/image_zpsiq8o5qvb.jpeg.html)
The thing is an appliance. It just works and does it's job without lots of maintaining.
Quote from: Grampa on January 29, 2016, 08:22:06 PM
The Outback was great size wise, but the dealership and factory are make the beast with two backsing us around with an oil consumption problem.
Is it a 2013, by chance? If so, it should fall into the class action lawsuit regarding excessive oil consumption.
If you haven't come across it already, here's some info:
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/subaru-tsb-for-excessive-oil-consumption-1600566355 (http://oppositelock.kinja.com/subaru-tsb-for-excessive-oil-consumption-1600566355)
http://www.torquenews.com/1084/update-subaru-oil-consumption-class-action-lawsuit (http://www.torquenews.com/1084/update-subaru-oil-consumption-class-action-lawsuit)
Quote from: D3vi@nt on January 31, 2016, 11:47:01 AM
Is it a 2013, by chance? If so, it should fall into the class action lawsuit regarding excessive oil consumption.
If you haven't come across it already, here's some info:
http://oppositelock.kinja.com/subaru-tsb-for-excessive-oil-consumption-1600566355 (http://oppositelock.kinja.com/subaru-tsb-for-excessive-oil-consumption-1600566355)
http://www.torquenews.com/1084/update-subaru-oil-consumption-class-action-lawsuit (http://www.torquenews.com/1084/update-subaru-oil-consumption-class-action-lawsuit)
Yup, and I'm in the VIN range as well. I've gotten a couple of unsolicited letters from law firms asking if I want to participate. They have had a few total engine failures due to the problem, and because the engine appears to be burning oil faster as it increases in milage, I don't want to be subjected to having to replace a short block when the warranty dissapears. My faith in the dealership is nonexistent thanks to the way thier service manager and service advisor have presented themselves, and the fact that the manufacturer has treated this as a non problem, even though they have multiple service bulletins on it, and have addressed a VIN range in where the problem occours, makes me want to bail on the car and try something different.
And...because of all this, the resale value has dropped off considerably. The car he had hoped to get 300k miles out of( and that the wife loved) has become something we feel stuck.
Subaru says they are going to send out a technical rep to analyze whatever he needs to analyze to see where this proceeds, but I feel like this is just another step in getting strung along.
Audi's excessive oil consumption standard is a weird number that round out to 1 quart in a hair over 1000 miles if there is no smoke leaks and the car performs well. Audi tests by weight, not the dipstick. Modern turbo and supercharged engines will use more oil than normally aspirated engines because fully sealed PCV systems do not work well when there is positive manifold pressure under boost, particularly when ridden hard.
Back to the Subaru. Boxer engines, all things equal, tend to use oil more than in line and V engines. Anyway, a quart every 3K or so is acceptable for any car. If that is your only problem keep it.
I have the perfect car for you Joel.
You need a Prius...they don't burn oil.
You can thank me later. :-*
Quote from: Grampa on January 31, 2016, 02:04:12 PM
And...because of all this, the resale value has dropped off considerably. The car he had hoped to get 300k miles out of( and that the wife loved) has become something we feel stuck.
Subaru says they are going to send out a technical rep to analyze whatever he needs to analyze to see where this proceeds, but I feel like this is just another step in getting strung along.
Hey, at least it isn't a tdi.
Forgot Joel, do have your PCV checked.
Quote from: ducpainter on January 31, 2016, 02:53:27 PM
I have the perfect car for you Joel.
You need a Prius...they don't burn oil.
You can thank me later. :-*
But if hate wearing sandals.
Quote from: Grampa on January 31, 2016, 04:49:12 PM
But if hate wearing sandals.
Then put some oil in the make the beast with two backsing thing... ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on January 31, 2016, 05:05:05 PM
Then put some oil in the make the beast with two backsing thing... ;D
But.....but......
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-waVmzBNOFQk/UdvHUUoIBdI/AAAAAAAAFPs/2sseZoLELGE/s1600/Moment-When-You-Tell-Your-Girlfriend-To-Put-Oil-in-Your-Car.gif)
Quote from: Satellite smithy on January 31, 2016, 07:03:47 PM
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-waVmzBNOFQk/UdvHUUoIBdI/AAAAAAAAFPs/2sseZoLELGE/s1600/Moment-When-You-Tell-Your-Girlfriend-To-Put-Oil-in-Your-Car.gif)
[laugh]
She obviously never found the 710.
Where is the vinegar?
My TDI burns a lot of oil, about a gallon every 40 miles
Note that the Escape is not AWD if that's a deal breaker. if it isn't, then this would be my vote.
Quote from: ducatiz on February 01, 2016, 06:36:44 AM
My TDI burns a lot of oil, about a gallon every 40 miles
I love the TDI wagon, but the wife hates vw cuz the whole fudging numbers thing.
Quote from: duccarlos on February 01, 2016, 06:53:06 AM
Note that the Escape is not AWD if that's a deal breaker. if it isn't, then this would be my vote.
???
My Escape is AWD.
If I was currently in that market, I'd go with an Escape with AWD (the AWD part only because of my location).
I've driven a couple and am impressed with them, nice rigs.
Seems like the State of Oregon bought a fleet of them. Not sure if they have a tow hitch or not. They are nice looking things.
The hitch is an option for $435, but you can easily mount one yourself for a lot cheaper. That 2L ecoboost can haul a trailer pretty easily.
I see. According to this, it will tow up to 3,500 lbs.
http://www.ford.com/suvs/escape/specifications/towing/ (http://www.ford.com/suvs/escape/specifications/towing/)
I probably never tow more than 2,000 in my car.
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on January 30, 2016, 06:26:02 PM
VW Jetta Wagon . . .
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12592213_10205048919694839_2084000076238187216_n.jpg?oh=52be12f702ec148a4675f8c01b4b5496&oe=57239010) I agree!
Quote from: Mendo Dave on February 01, 2016, 09:09:03 AM
I see. According to this, it will tow up to 3,500 lbs.
http://www.ford.com/suvs/escape/specifications/towing/ (http://www.ford.com/suvs/escape/specifications/towing/)
I probably never tow more than 2,000 in my car.
Yep, it's very impressive for a 4 cylinder. Ford has definitely impressed me with their models of the last 5 years.
The 1.6 is pretty peppy for it's size. No turbo lag at all and great fuel economy.
Now the Golf Wagen
(http://a38898d4011a160a051fb191.gearheads.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Larger-and-Lighter-All-New-2015-Volkswagen-Golf-SportWagen-2.jpg)
Quote from: Scooter Montgomery on February 01, 2016, 09:53:27 AM
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/t1.0-9/12592213_10205048919694839_2084000076238187216_n.jpg?oh=52be12f702ec148a4675f8c01b4b5496&oe=57239010) I agree!
Quote from: ducpainter on February 01, 2016, 10:20:41 AM
The 1.6 is pretty peppy for it's size. No turbo lag at all and great fuel economy.
I read that it has a little difficulty pulling long up hills. The hp is around 170 or so? That seems a little underpowered, but not terribly underpowered.
Quote from: Mendo Dave on February 01, 2016, 10:28:01 AM
I read that it has a little difficulty pulling long up hills. The hp is around 170 or so? That seems a little underpowered, but not terribly underpowered.
Pulling what?
Certainly not itself.
I guess thats Nor Cal speak for driving up a long hill.
Quote from: Mendo Dave on February 01, 2016, 10:52:20 AM
I guess thats Nor Cal speak for driving up a long hill.
I realize what you said.
I'm telling you you're misinformed.
OK so these are the specs from Ford.
I would need to drive one.
http://www.ford.com/suvs/escape/specifications/engine/ (http://www.ford.com/suvs/escape/specifications/engine/)
Quote from: Mendo Dave on February 01, 2016, 10:28:01 AM
I read that it has a little difficulty pulling long up hills. The hp is around 170 or so? That seems a little underpowered, but not terribly underpowered.
170 hp is underpowered??
My wife's 2011 Kia Sorento EX AWD has the 2.4 I4 engine with 175 HP and it is plenty for that size of vehicle for normal use.
We even have a tow bar on it for my bike trailer.
We drove the v6 version and it simply wasn't a huge difference except for the MPG
My 1971 VW bus had 60 hp. With a tow bar.
Quote from: ducatiz on February 01, 2016, 12:45:50 PM
170 hp is underpowered??
My wife's 2011 Kia Sorento EX AWD has the 2.4 I4 engine with 175 HP and it is plenty for that size of vehicle for normal use.
We even have a tow bar on it for my bike trailer.
We drove the v6 version and it simply wasn't a huge difference except for the MPG
My 1971 VW bus had 60 hp. With a tow bar.
My Ute is 220hp, and I would describe the power as adequate. Sometimes I shift down into 4th going up a grade, and usually shift down a gear or two when making a pass. I feel that it makes enough power to get the job done but it's no muscle car.
The wagon has the same engine & transmission, it goes a little faster, and gets a little better milage, mostly because of the lower profile pushing through the air. The fact that it's just a 2WD probably makes some difference as well, but It feels pretty similar in performance to the ML.
I also have this old SL380 convertible I bought last summer to cruise around in. That engine was rated at 150hp. It's a smooth running V8, and a total boat anchor. It must do 0-60 in 11 or 12 seconds or something. So driving it fast is not an expectation for me. But the performance is definitely inadequate, especially considering the fuel consumption of 16mpg on the freeway. But those were different times and it's not my daily driver.
So to me the in-between rating of 170-180 give or take, seems somewhere in the middle. My mind set is that 250hp is plenty in a car, and I don't own any that make that much.
Maybe the Ford is lighter than my cars, although it looks fairly large. It doesn't look like a compact, nor does it look like a behemoth, but looks squarely midsize. Maybe I'm wrong. I would have to drive one to see if it had enough power or not.
At this point in my life, adequate will do just fine in terms of power.
Quote from: ducatiz on February 01, 2016, 12:45:50 PM
170 hp is underpowered??
It's about right for a bike [evil]
Quote from: ducatiz on February 01, 2016, 12:45:50 PM
170 hp is underpowered??
My wife's 2011 Kia Sorento EX AWD has the 2.4 I4 engine with 175 HP and it is plenty for that size of vehicle for normal use.
We even have a tow bar on it for my bike trailer.
We drove the v6 version and it simply wasn't a huge difference except for the MPG
My 1971 VW bus had 60 hp. With a tow bar.
I don't think so either 'Tiz.
It's no race car, not slow by any means either, but it does everything we need for a family style small SUV.
Gets great mileage, plenty of interior space, and goes well in the snow.
Quote from: ducpainter on February 01, 2016, 01:36:13 PM
I don't think so either 'Tiz.
It's no race car, not slow by any means either, but it does everything we need for a family style small SUV.
Gets great mileage, plenty of interior space, and goes well in the snow.
yeah
i don't get the fetish with having a family car or CUV with gobs of HP. what's the point?
y'all do know you can own two cars right?
My VW has ~140 hp but my CLK has about 250hp.
You need this:
http://www.toyota.com/rav4hybrid (http://www.toyota.com/rav4hybrid)
Also, I know some peeps at Subie, if that can help at all.
But, based on your consumption and mileage figures, it doesn't seem like a big deal.
Quote from: Randimus Maximus on February 01, 2016, 09:25:58 PM
But, based on your consumption and mileage figures, it doesn't seem like a big deal.
In your professional automotive opinion, do you think he should just add some oil to it?
Quote from: Satellite smithy on February 01, 2016, 10:06:48 PM
In your professional automotive opinion, do you think he should just add some oil to it?
By adding oil, do you mean pouring it all over the engine compartment like the young lady did in an earlier video?
Joel, maybe you need a horse?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ1bBeNK22s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ1bBeNK22s)
There are enough shit producers in our home.
Quote from: Grampa on February 02, 2016, 03:59:07 PM
There are enough shit producers in our home.
[laugh] [clap] [laugh] [clap]
FYI, http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/mazda-cx-5-crossover-total-recall/ (http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/mazda-cx-5-crossover-total-recall/)
Quote from: DarkMonster620 on February 02, 2016, 04:33:49 PM
FYI, http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/mazda-cx-5-crossover-total-recall/ (http://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/mazda-cx-5-crossover-total-recall/)
I suggest not being involved in a rear end collision.