http://www.motorcyclenews.com/sport/motogp/2016/may/marquez-wants-to-see-motogp-winglets-banned/
It seems this is the new controversial tech. I do agree with MM on one point, these bikes will soon become 2 wheeled F1 vehicles.
I am personally not a fan of them but I am kind of "meh" on their continued use as long as they don't get too big. Just based on the way the appear I think the Honda (in the link you posted) is the most aesthetically pleasing and the Yamaha the least. I think the Ducati wings are really cool looking and about the most "integrated" (as in, they BELONG and weren't just thrown on) looking, but they are too big (for my tastes).
Mark
Dall'Igna's response to the winglet debate:
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/229988/1/ducati-rejects-winglets-are-dangerous-argument.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/229988/1/ducati-rejects-winglets-are-dangerous-argument.html)
He makes a useful point: a bike with its front wheel on the track is safer than one with it up in the air.
While I personally don't particularly like the look of 'em, I applaud the way Dall'Igna has got the racing department thinking way outside the box about everything with the bike. I do think the biggest safety issue is not so much hitting other riders (Iannone's snapped off with just minor contact on Marquez at Argentina), but the turbulence they create for riders behind in the draft - which also makes for racing with fewer passing opportunities. [thumbsdown] to that.
I also think it's unlikely to go too far in the direction of F1 front wings - compared to the relatively stable package of a Formula 1 car, you'd have to model the aerodynamics of the bike through 90+ degrees of lean angle from side to side, and throw in each individual riders' size and style of hanging off the bike in corners. I don't think even Honda is willing to put up the kind of money that would take.
This is next
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/F3649CDC-60D8-4B42-BDFE-F76FB20B0444.jpg) (http://s201.photobucket.com/user/chiflado/media/F3649CDC-60D8-4B42-BDFE-F76FB20B0444.jpg.html)
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
I bet the snot-slick track at Jerez had a bunch of riders wishing for something like those winglets to create a little more downforce on the rear wheel.
Or maybe more like:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c2/47/a9/c247a96695a63cf53f7d54edfbcad53b.jpg)
Jim Hall Chapparal. [thumbsup] [thumbsup]
Quote from: triangleforge on May 02, 2016, 01:50:55 PM
I bet the snot-slick track at Jerez had a bunch of riders wishing for something like those winglets to create a little more downforce on the rear wheel.
Or maybe more like:
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c2/47/a9/c247a96695a63cf53f7d54edfbcad53b.jpg)
That seems like a very good design if you want to do car front wheelies [coffee]
Quote from: triangleforge on May 02, 2016, 10:42:00 AM
"......you'd have to model the aerodynamics of the bike through 90+ degrees of lean angle from side to side...."
Also, if the winglets are effective enough to hold down/stabilize the front end at high speeds, what happens when a bike does a big wheelie? Fly over the bike in front of it? Do a back flip? Would think winglets would magnify the wheelie effect, once its started. [coffee]
At some point, yes, the wings would magnify the wheelie.
I feel pretty confident saying that the winglets are likely used because of the spec ECU. Only Ducati used winglets last year and only on specific tracks. HRC and Yamaha's electronics were probably so sophisticated that they could control the power delivery to keep the front planted. Yamaha generally does not need them since the power delivery is the smoothest of all the bikes.
If you've got more power than the other bikes, then it's beneficial to give away a bit of it to generate downforce.
MotoGP bikes are wheelie limited until ~4th gear, so there's definite benefit.
Re-watch PI from last year, and watch Iannone drive past Rossi like he was tied to a tree about a third of the way down the front straight.
There's a little hump, Rossi's bike wheelies, Iannone's stays planted and sails past.
Is that a bulge in your fairing, or are you just glad to see me?
Final rules on winglets/bulges/fairing protuberances:
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/233581/1/motogp-wing-ban-wording.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/233581/1/motogp-wing-ban-wording.html)
Interesting note from the end of the Crash article: the rule doesn't ban aerodynamic devices that are enclosed within the bodywork...
Quote from: triangleforge on September 13, 2016, 12:13:54 PM
Is that a bulge in your fairing, or are you just glad to see me?
Final rules on winglets/bulges/fairing protuberances:
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/233581/1/motogp-wing-ban-wording.html (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/233581/1/motogp-wing-ban-wording.html)
Interesting note from the end of the Crash article: the rule doesn't ban aerodynamic devices that are enclosed within the bodywork...
It also doesn't specify that race direction, the sole judge of what's permissible, will allow them either.
Pandora's Box, once opened, cannot be closed.
.....and I always loved her for that.
You guys crack me up. ;D
Mark my words.
Folks who thought winglets were ugly are in for a make the beast with two backsing rude shock.
This 'no winglet' deal will put the U in Ugly.
Quote from: Speeddog on September 13, 2016, 07:37:39 PM
Mark my words.
Folks who thought winglets were ugly are in for a make the beast with two backsing rude shock.
This 'no winglet' deal will put the U in Ugly.
I always thought it was the F in Fugly. ;D
http://www.gpone.com/en/2016091132414/motogp/ducati-looks-to-reinvent-the-wheel.html (http://www.gpone.com/en/2016091132414/motogp/ducati-looks-to-reinvent-the-wheel.html)
Gonna be interesting in strong crosswinds [coffee]
"Interesting note from the end of the Crash article: the rule doesn't ban aerodynamic devices that are enclosed within the bodywork..." Is it just me, or this rule as clear as mud?
See speeddogs post above.
You gotta hand it to them. They're focus group is very persistent.
More on winglets re Dani, and aero in general.
Fair warning, it contains the usual amount of Honda's modesty about their kit. [roll]
And a fair bit of propagandist chest thumping.
http://www.sportrider.com/motogp-nakamoto-reveals-hidden-downside-winglets?dom=rss-default&src=syn (http://www.sportrider.com/motogp-nakamoto-reveals-hidden-downside-winglets?dom=rss-default&src=syn)
Hmmm...
these guys must read each others pieces...
Because the technical part certainly is important, but in bike racing, what still makes the difference is the rider’s brain.
...or it's true. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on September 20, 2016, 07:56:28 PM
Hmmm...
these guys must read each others pieces...
Because the technical part certainly is important, but in bike racing, what still makes the difference is the rider’s brain.
...or it's true. ;D
Unless you're Crashy Andrew or MM. They use less brain and more brawn.
Quote from: duccarlos on September 22, 2016, 09:33:05 AM
Unless you're Crashy Andrew or MM. They use less brain and more brawn.
I don't think that's what they were getting at. You're describing riding style.
I'm not a fast guy, but even at my level there are days that it just feels right, and other days I have no feeling with the bike at all. Before I took a break from riding to build my house it was feeling great, and I could ride with most anyone at the track. Since I got back on bike issues, and my rustiness, haven't allowed me to go as fast...or fast at all. I 'think' there's something wrong.
If these guys 'think' that somethings wrong they can't push. It's a crew chiefs job to convince them that they did something to the bike, or actually make a change, so it feels better.
Yep. Crew Chief = Motor Sports Psychologist.