As requested, a new thread discussing DFWM members and their handgun ownership;
So what's the deal with getting a Concealed Handgun License? Does anyone here have one and what all was involved? Was/is it worth it?
We've got two handguns that we were big into about 13 years ago (put 'em totally "away" when Sam was born); now Alan and I are interested in getting back into the "hobby."
Any help/advice with a CHL would be appreciated. I also was wondering if Kevin or somebody could follow-up on a firing range day for the other gun-toting DFWM folks who may be interested ;D
Carry Conceal License requires a background check and generally you have to go to you're local court house, submit the papers and finger prints for identification. They then send the information to do a background check on you and once that is approved, it must be signed by commissioner/judge and then you're good to go.
It also depends on what you want to do exactly. In some states you can carry open as long as it's holstered and visable, a license may not be required. And it may or may not be required to carry in you're vehicle.
Check with you're local branch to find out exactly whats needed. In the end mine costed me $50 when I needed it.
It can take up to 2-3 months some times for the whole process if you're in a heavy populated area.
I had a CHL once. I got one the first year Texas put the law into effect. Mine was good for 4 years. I let it lapse, and never took steps to renew. Why? In 4 years, I guess I never really felt the need to carry it very often. However, it was nice knowing that I could (and did) whenever I wanted (exceptions being when it was prohibited by to the law).
Today, Lyndy and I talk about going to get CHL's. The primary reason for us today is for the convenience of buying a handgun if you have a valid CHL. There is no waiting period if you're trying to buy a handgun at a gunstore or gunshow. For us, that's the primary attraction (yes, we're sometimes impulse buyers). Secondary to us is the ablity to "carry".
So, my recommendation is to assess your reasons for wanting the license, and then do it. In the end, having the license doesn't mean you ever have to carry (although there are some new obligations you'll need to be aware of once you're licensed - particulary involving traffic stops). As far as I know, the course is still a 2 day classroom course administered by a certified trainer. It requires a passport photo (at your expense) to be filed with all the CHL application paperwork. I believe that most of the CHL classes are a "one stop shop". Meaning; they will provide the state application paperwork for you to fill out, some even have a passport photographer come onsite, and then they administer the class including the state test, and shooting test, and finally they issue a certificate of completion which must be sumitted with your CHL application packet (including application fee) that gets sent to Austin. After Austin recieves and processes it (including a background check), and all goes well, you will get your CHL in the mail. They look very similar to your drivers license.
The classes are good for learning about many of the laws surrounding the use of deadly force and carrying, transporting, storing a firearm. If you're willing to commit the time (a whole weekend) and the money for the course (I've seen $100-$175 as the typical range), there shouldn't be any real problem in getting the license (other than passing the background check).
Hope this helps!
- Officer Phife [leo]
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Cool! Free-Roaming BACON!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://prosourceit.com/misc/other_imgs/doit.jpg)
What BarneePhife said. The class room part of the course is mostly common sense kinda stuff and they touch on the law as well which is important. Like when you are justified and where you can carry. I recommend DFW Gun Range on Mockingbird, they have a pretty nice range and will take care of you. I highly recommend you get it if for nothing more than the piece of mind.
I would like to get one here... the only thing I would have to change is my drivers license (currently AZ).
...and I'd have to break down and buy a handgun.
I've been avoiding that. I know what will happen.
Handguns don't kill people, but ten of them will kill your piggy bank! ;D
If we decide to do this as a group, "I'm in".
Quote from: The Evil Count Dookie-Duke on July 20, 2008, 07:26:34 AM
I would like to get one here... the only thing I would have to change is my drivers license (currently AZ).
...and I'd have to break down and buy a handgun.
I've been avoiding that. I know what will happen.
Handguns don't kill people, but ten of them will kill your piggy bank! ;D
If we decide to do this as a group, "I'm in".
I know of an instructor that does private groups if you guys decide to do that. Im sure fastwin knows a hundred of them :)
You might be able to find a slightly used USP on craigs list :(
Isn't there something about not having even 1 drink if you have the CHL & a gun in the car?
Quote from: Duc L'Smart on July 20, 2008, 09:22:12 AM
Isn't there something about not having even 1 drink if you have the CHL & a gun in the car?
Don't recall that one specifically. But taking a concealed gun (even with a CHL) into an establishment which derives more than 51% of their revenue from the sale of alcohol is prohibited.
Quote from: Duc L'Smart on July 20, 2008, 09:22:12 AM
Isn't there something about not having even 1 drink if you have the CHL & a gun in the car?
[roll] So that's why you were drinking "Vitamin Water" yesterday ! ;D
Cyette & I would be interested in going shooting sometime at a range. I'm not sure I want to do the whole CHL deal though. Firearms are a complicated subject - but we sure would have fun test driving a few things sometime ! Cyette wants to try a lightweight 38 revolver.
Quote from: Duc L'Smart on July 20, 2008, 09:22:12 AM
Isn't there something about not having even 1 drink if you have the CHL & a gun in the car?
Okay, found it on the txdps website CHL FAQ....
Q: Can I carry a handgun when I am drinking?
A: Under the concealed handgun law, it is illegal to carry a handgun if you are intoxicated. The best idea is to leave your weapon at home if you intend to consume any alcoholic beverages.
Quote from: BarneePhife on July 20, 2008, 10:05:45 AM
Okay, found it on the txdps website CHL FAQ....
Q: Can I carry a handgun when I am drinking?
A: Under the concealed handgun law, it is illegal to carry a handgun if you are intoxicated. The best idea is to leave your weapon at home if you intend to consume any alcoholic beverages.
Well HELL! Then what's the POINT!
(We need an emoticon with a gun in one hand and a pint of Guniess in the other.)
I've been meaning to get my permit, but have kept putting it off.
One day my son and I were shooting down at the Sabine River bank right off of Hwy-69. A forman from a nearby highway project dropped by and asked if we'd seen the 10 foot alligator. :o I thought he was joking, but he insisted that his men had seen it. Well, with all the noise we were making it would surely have moved far away. Been meaning to get some rope and a whole fryer chicken from the market and go fishin'. Well, I guess that would be "gatorin'"
Anyone know what size hook I need?
Quote from: BarneePhife on July 20, 2008, 10:05:45 AM
Okay, found it on the txdps website CHL FAQ....
Q: Can I carry a handgun when I am drinking?
A: Under the concealed handgun law, it is illegal to carry a handgun if you are intoxicated. The best idea is to leave your weapon at home if you intend to consume any alcoholic beverages.
The intoxication limit is not the same as driving either. ANY alcohol in your system is considered against the law.
Also, a CHL license is for concealed carry only. If someone notices you have a gun, it's a crime.
It is leagal in Texas to have a gun in your car without a carry license if you are traveling, so the only reason to get a CHL is if you want to carry it on your person. Once a CHL is obtained, you are more restricted than people without one as far as the law is concerned because you have had training.
I still recommend it though, because it's our right.
sounds like a group buy on pistols is in the works.
This thread is great; the only two reasons I thought I should get a CHL was becasue I travel alone to Austin quite a bit, and, I figured it was about time to get proper training if we were to start hitting the shooting range on a more frequent basis.
Now I'm not so sure...
So would I need to have a CHL to carry a handgun in the glovebox of my car when I'm travelling?
And what's the deterent to crime if criminals can't see you're just as armed as they are?
Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing against guns or their owners (like I said we've got two) but it just seems to me The Authorities don't want you to have 'em anyway.
it's the man, trying to put you down.
;D
Quote from: Cher on July 20, 2008, 07:59:50 PM
This thread is great; the only two reasons I thought I should get a CHL was becasue I travel alone to Austin quite a bit, and, I figured it was about time to get proper training if we were to start hitting the shooting range on a more frequent basis.
Now I'm not so sure...
So would I need to have a CHL to carry a handgun in the glovebox of my car when I'm travelling?
And what's the deterent to crime if criminals can't see you're just as armed as they are?
Don't get me wrong; I've got nothing against guns or their owners (like I said we've got two) but it just seems to me The Authorities don't want you to have 'em anyway.
Good questions, Cher. I hope others will chime in on this.
Your question regarding deterring crime is a common one, I think. I'd like to give my humble opinion on the topic.
One of the things I learned in the CHL class was the intended purpose of the CHL laws. My bottom line takeaway from the class was that the purpose of carrying a concealed firearm is not to deter crime, but to educate a lawful citizen on the use of deadly force. Another way of putting it is, that being licensed to carry is not so that you can show you weapon to deter someone from commiting a crime, but that the only reaon your firearm is reavealed should be if you intend to use deadly force in order to protect your life or the life of another. One argument that was repeated when I took the course was, that if you're in a situation where you feel your life is threatened, the first thing you (even when legally carrying a concealed firearm) is to flee if possible.
So, in my humble opinion, I think that many people feel that carrying a concealed weapon is intended to be a deterrent - a safety blankent in case you get into a bad situation where you think you might either be hurt, or be able to prevent something from escilating into something worse. In reality, by educating yourself thorugh the CHL course, you are taking it upon yourself the responsibliity & liabilty of now knowing the Texas laws surrounding the use of deadly force thereby ultimately limiting (and rightly so) the purpose of an educated, law abiding citizen, for carrying a concealed weapon.
So... another way to answer your question, "what's the purpose if it's not a deterrant" is this: You are actually taking steps to educate yourself on the laws, to understand the guidelines on the use of deadly force, and to differentiate yourself from those who carry a firearm for "protection" who may actually not fully understand the ramifications of brandishing or using a firearm and what the law will deem as acceptable use when you're trying to defend yourself from punishment in court. Despite the concept of good and right that most well meaning citizens live by, and act by, we still have a legal system which will judge anyone who breaks the law (yes, shooting a bad guy is against the law, and unfortunately he or his survivors can sue you). Hence, the CHL (training, test, certification) can be used by a lawyer as a defense to prosecution because it can show that you had been educated in the legal use of deadly force, you knew that your life was in danger, and you had no way to flee the situation and that your actions were taken based on your training in the CHL course. (or some version of that concept, I would assume).
As fastwin and b. b. said, carrying a gun in your car (again, for protection) when you're traveling to and from Houston does not require a CHL.
Also, traveling to and from your local gun range does not require a CHL, but there are (or used to be) other laws surrounding that type of transportation of firearms (ammo separate from weapon, not in the passenger compartment or at least not in immediately accessable loaction such as under your seat). In other words, it helps for the weapon to be obviously "packaged" in a way that is clear that you're just going to the gun range (in a box, ammo separate, ear plugs, or other hearing protection, all stored in the trunk, etc).
This is an excellent thread. [thumbsup]I have a valid CHL and i do carry....once in a while. I guess the novelty has worn off. My thought about the subject is ---- I'd rather have it and not need it, rather than need it and not have it.
Regarding the drinking while carrying question: Yes you can carry when you are out drinking but, there is no legal minimum limit to being "intoxicated" when you are carrying. You can have just one beer and they can arrest you for being "intoxicated". In other words it's better to leave the toys at home when you plan to go out drinking.
I'm a member at The Bullet Trap in Plano (Ave K and Park). They have classes almost every weekend and do all your shooting qualifications, fingerprinting, and pictures there. I don't ever recall having to go to a courthouse for anything. As a matter of fact, I'll be needed to have my CHL renewed again next year of anyone wants to go take a renewal course together. :)
I usually carry a Keltek P3AT during the summer time. Winter time I carry my Kimber Stainless Goldmatch. There are gunshows every three months at the Dallas Market Hall if anyone wants to go. There should be one comming up soon! [moto]
just let me know when we're headed to the range... i don't think i'll be very competitive, but i'll try my best.
and hey, i clean what i shoot.
Quote from: McKraut on July 20, 2008, 09:54:01 PM
just let me know when we're headed to the range... i don't think i'll be very competitive, but i'll try my best.
Using a .50 cal. machine gun does not require too much finesse. I thought the deal was just to mow them down. [thumbsup]
Whew, after Jim's explanation, anyone who still doesn't get it shouldn't have a gun or any sharp objects for that matter. [thumbsup] ;D
cdc
Quote from: *** on July 20, 2008, 10:31:19 PM
Using a .50 cal. machine gun does not require too much finesse. I thought the deal was just to mow them down. [thumbsup]
Whew, after Jim's explanation, anyone who still doesn't get it shouldn't have a gun or any sharp objects for that matter. [thumbsup] ;D
cdc
there's something to be said for kentucky windage.
Quote from: McKraut on July 20, 2008, 09:54:17 PM
and hey, i clean what i shoot.
i continue to point out how valuable an offer this is...
Quote from: McKraut on July 20, 2008, 10:36:34 PM
i continue to point out how valuable an offer this is...
+1 ... bazillion!!
Cher you can only benefit from getting the CHL. I carry daily and just like Barry said, better to have and not need... Sure you can carry in your car without the lic. but what about to and from your car? Dark parking lot at night?? Not to mention they have some really cool concealment purses out there with nifty hidden pockets ;D Im a little jealous. Hmm man purse?
Im all over a ride to Market Hall for the next show as I now have a USP to replace :'(
Quote from: Kevin848 on July 21, 2008, 12:58:26 AM
Im all over a ride to Market Hall for the next show as I now have a USP to replace :'(
FN 57
Wow, thanks for all the responses. Hadn't really gotten that far as to even consider liability (thinking the gun would just gather dust and I'd in all porbability never actually need it...) :-\
All good food for thought [thumbsup]
Quote from: b.b. on July 21, 2008, 02:05:59 AM
FN 57
Give me a holla' and we'll ride up.
...by the sound of this thread maybe en mass!
Barganing power of the LSD:
"Uh, yeah, ...what kind of deal can you work on six of those .45's there..."
[thumbsup] ;D
Quote from: b.b. on July 21, 2008, 02:05:59 AM
FN 57
Ammo$$$$ >:(
Ive be wanting a Kimber RCPII
Quote from: fastwin on July 20, 2008, 09:47:07 PM
Oh my God! I had no idea that we had another valedictorian graduate from the Fastwin University of Longwindedness. You have made me so proud. [thumbsup] I think we have found a subject that he obviuosly did his thesis paper about. [clap]
;D
The guys at work give me a hard time about that type of behavior. Their simple email, "What's for lunch?" would garner a 23 paragraph novel from me (or so they would tell you).
Quote from: fastwin on July 21, 2008, 05:58:17 AM
I used to live at the Market Hall gun shows.
Great place to escape from the family/in-laws during the holiday.
Or to hol' up should the family try to extricate you by force. You'd definitely have them out gunned! [laugh]
Quote from: fastwin on July 21, 2008, 05:58:17 AM
I used to live at the Market Hall gun shows. Haven't been in a long time, way over due. When is the next one. All I remember is the one every Thanksgiving weekend right around my birthday. Great place to escape from the family/in-laws during the holiday. Got myself some really nice b-day gifts there over the years. [thumbsup]
Sat/Sun, September 20/21, 9am, Dallas Market Hall per the Dallas Arms Collectors website.
Quote from: BarneePhife on July 21, 2008, 06:55:14 AM
;D
The guys at work give me a hard time about that type of behavior. Their simple email, "What's for lunch?" would garner a 23 paragraph novel from me (or so they would tell you).
Thoroughness is a virtue, right beside Patience... Unfortunately I'm seriously deficient with both on any given day [bang] [laugh]
Hmmm a bunch of hooligan bikers going to a gun show... that won't attract any attention!
Count me in.
If anybody wants to take the class, do they mind if a newbie to the Guns & Ammo club tags along?
Quote from: bryant8 on July 21, 2008, 08:45:15 AM
If anybody want to take the class, do they mind if a newbie to the Guns & Ammo club tags along?
+1
I'd be interested in this as well. [thumbsup]
Quote from: bryant8 on July 21, 2008, 08:45:15 AM
If anybody want to take the class, do they mind if a newbie to the Guns & Ammo club tags along?
I had a CHL which I let expire. I've been thinking of applying for one again. Basically, if you have no handgun experience at all you should go with a friend who is knowlegable enough to teach you the basics of safe handling of guns. Then you should go to the gun range with said friend a target practice with a gun you are interested in buying, preferrably a semisutomatic pistol instead of a revolver. If you test using a semi auto you can carry either a semi auto or revolver. The reverse is not the case however. Test with a revlover and you are limited to revolvers only.
It is best to test using a 9mm in say a standard Beretta. The gun is heavy enough to minimize recoil of the 9mm. In some places, you could rent guns for use in the range and practice on.
cdc
So, when we going to the range ***, my "knowledgeable" friend? ;D
Well, I guess it's high time I get properly trained then
Quote from: caffeinejunkee on July 21, 2008, 09:05:15 AM
So, when we going to the range ***, my "knowledgeable" friend? ;D
Know this! RichD already mentioned this. If you get into guns, it can get expensive. That means less mods to the bike. :(
If you stay with handguns, and limit your needs (as in, I need this and I need that ;D), it can be manageble. Get into long guns and you better kiss your bike goodbye.
Just say when grasshooper. FYI, I only know the basics. Good enough to hit paper targets up to 30 feet and safe enough not to shhot myself in the foot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkDcKokWjBk
cross my fingers!
cdc
Quote from: bryant8 on July 21, 2008, 08:45:15 AM
If anybody wants to take the class, do they mind if a newbie to the Guns & Ammo club tags along?
A LSD gun-range day sounds fun! [thumbsup]
As Kevin848 mentioned in a previous post, DFW Gun Range on Mockingbird is a good location.
They're kinda on the higher priced end of the spectrum for range time. But I recommend them because if you're a "newbie", this is the place to go to try out several different types of handguns. They rent a wide range of pistols for you to use on their range. Again, it ain't cheep (if I recall), and I doubt their prices have gone down.
Another alternative is "test rides" with our pistols. Sounds like there are a good number of folks on this thread who own one or more pistols. I for one, don't have a problem letting anyone use my pistol on the range to get a feel for it. If there's enough "test ride" pistols available, we could find a slightly less pricey gun range in the area (if price is a concern for everyone). Otherwise, I like the location - we could harass the warehome before/after the big LSD Turkey Shoot! [laugh]
Quote from: BarneePhife on July 21, 2008, 09:34:54 AM
DFW Gun Range on Mockingbird is a good location.
and oh-so-conveniently located 4 blocks from the WareHome ;D
Maybe a combo moto-ammo day?
We're pretty well armed as well. I've been to the range quite a few times, although consider myself a n00b.
Quote from: Duc L'Smart on July 21, 2008, 09:43:13 AM... I've been to the range quite a few times, although consider myself a n00b.
I look at shooting much like I do bowling and darts: I enjoy it, and have done a bunch of it, but don't consider myself competitively "good" ...sometimes have good days, and sometimes "I cant hit shit" days.
But it's always fun.
And always
SAFE.
We've got a lot of firepower... PM me if you want the list ;D
What Fastwins said is heavy sh1t but true.
There's owning a handgun and keeping it in the house for when someone breaks into your house and you hole yourself in your bedroom with your family while you call 911. Point the gun at the door. This is the most basic use of the gun for defense. In this situation, you control your environment and the perp can only get to you through one door. This you can do with training.
The other is to be in an environment that is less familiar with many possible scenarios and under duress. That is the other end of the spectrum and that needs a lot of training. Every shot you take needs to be taken into account as to where it will go and who or what it will hit. In an open street that could be anywhere. In a closed environment, bullets can and will go through walls and doors and hit someone you may not have intended to hit. That would be bad.
So if there are a lot of restrictions that keeps a CHL holder restricted (as explained by Jim and Brian), why get one in the first place? I think if you travel as Cher plans to do, out of town or out of state as many states have reciprocity, it makes life easier. Without a CHL, in your vehicle, your gun has to be unloaded with the gun and ammo apart enough so it is inconvenient to get to. Why bring the gun in the first place if your object was for protection and piece of mind. CHL allows you to carry the gun in your vehicle hidden but loaded and readily accessible for the rare times you will actually need it.
I once had a confrontation late one night with a drunk in downtown Fort Worth while walking down a sidewalk minding my own business. Because I was packing, I decided that it was best to de-escalate the situation rather than stand my ground because it would have led to me "feel threatened" and possibly shoot the guy. He wasn't worth the hassle that would follow. He was a drunk being obnoxious. But if he was out to rob me or if he pulled out a knife, that would be a different situation. Then I would get to say "go ahead, make my day". ;D
I think Jim and I have been infected by the BB virus (main symptom, long winded post) ;D
cdc
Quote from: fastwin on July 21, 2008, 11:43:53 AM
Yes, it is contagious. ;D You didn't drink off my beer bottle at the party Saturday did you? That's probably where you got it. How you gave it to Jim is none of my business. [laugh]
I did send him a voice mail last Saturday?
***
Quote from: *** on July 21, 2008, 12:09:18 PM
I did send him a voice mail last Saturday?
***
I knew I shouldn't have listened to that voice mail. Next time I listen to one of your voice mails, I'm going to place my phone inside a zip-lock bag first.
Wow, if I'm thinking I've had a bad day, I think I'll just replay that video... Now THAT'S a bad day! :'(
So when's the LSD Guns & Ammo orientation day?
The idea of the dry fire session is excellent, once that is out of the way and the interest is still there we can do some live fire exercises at the range. I can get for this a "range" (ok its the bank of the trinity river) but it is none the less a place to go shoot. We would have free use of the area as it is semi-private and Fastwin could yell as much as he wants ;D. The roads are not bike friendly and its about a 45 minute drive out I45. I can also get for this event a highly trained Dallas County SWAT officer [bacon] that I have literally known all my life, he even used to ride so he should fit in pretty good [thumbsup].
However, using the place to shoot and having Mike (my SWAT friend) available are both contingent on his schedule so I will get with him and see what he thinks of the idea. It would be helpful if everyone would chime in on wether or not this is something everyone wants to do or would they rather go to somewhere like DFW. Also would help to know an approx. head count on said event.
Oh almost forgot, if I can get Mike in on this there will be PLENTY of stuff to test drive ;D
I'm up for it. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Kevin848 on July 21, 2008, 04:14:19 PM
we can do some live fire exercises at the range. I can get for this a "range" (ok its the bank of the trinity river) but it is none the less a place to go shoot. We would have free use of the area as it is semi-private and Fastwin could yell as much as he wants ;D. The roads are not bike friendly and its about a 45 minute drive out I45. I can also get for this event a highly trained Dallas County SWAT officer
There's a small cabin. Bring pencil & plenty of paper- we'll be working on a "manifesto".
(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/animated/anim_08.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)
Quote from: fastwin on July 21, 2008, 04:47:11 PM
Is Mike DSO (Dallas County Sheriffs Office) or DPD (Dallas Police Dept.)? You said Dallas County so I assume DSO. Work with them alot but only as it pertains to the Courthouse and jail.
If anyone wants to get serious and and receive excellent instruction I would steer you toward the Tiger Valley tactical training group and T.J. Piling. It is his outfit. I've known T.J. for years and like Kevin's friend he is also a SWAT officer with Garland PD. I have taken many courses from him and helped him instruct over the years. He is a great guy and a awesome instructor. Check him out at tigervalley.com.
He utilizes part of the Elm Fork shooting range (used to be called Winchester Shooting Range) on West Northwest highway, west of I-35 and he uses a range down in the Waco area. Any basic handgun work would be at the Elm Fork faciltiy. This time of year they even do some mini evening classes since it stays light so late. They even do some night fire classes out there. If you have never taken a night class you are really missing something! Took two at Thunder Ranch, one pistol and one urban rifle... really cool! [thumbsup] Lots of things happen after the sun goes down, sometimes things go bump in the night. Get tritium night sights on anything you own and learn to use a Surefire flashlight with whatever you own. I digress... :P
DSO, precinct 3Correction he is with the Constables office.
Quote from: Duc L'Smart on July 21, 2008, 04:54:50 PM
There's a small cabin. Bring pencil & plenty of paper- we'll be working on a "manifesto".
(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/animated/anim_08.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)
[laugh] ok, its not that secluded. Wait, can we take a stand against "boy bands" in our manifesto? If so, ill bring a whole box of #2s
I would be up for the dry fire, test drive bit. Still not sure what's "right" for me (no Constitution pun intended) ;D
http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/right_to_own_guns_upheld
I love The Onion! [laugh]
I'm a big time pro-gunner. Anytime people are shooting, let me know, I'm THERE! If of course I'm not working. I have lots of guns if people are interested in trying them to see what "fits". On that note, here are a few of my OPINIONS:
The Best gun is the one you will carry.
Tell anyone who says, "that round/caliber/bullet is no good" to stand downrange and let you shoot them with it if it is no good.
A giant Desert Eagle .50 will sure do the trick but looks funny tucked in your jeans.
I do not agree with the PLAN to carry a gun in the car. Once in a while if you need to leave it there because you need to go somewhere you can't legally carry, that's fine. I just don't believe it should be there all the time. Cars get broken into and guns get stolen. Both are Really Bad.
Don't get a gun to "scare" someone.
Don't point your gun at anything you don't intend to DESTROY!
Be sure of your target AND beyond.
Don't shoot to mame, Don't shoot to Kill, DO shoot to stop the attack. And by that, I mean one shot may not be enough.
There is a lot more to discuss.
I need to read thru all of the posts. I'm sort of jumping on the tail end of it. I'll do that and add when I get a chance.
Steve
Quote from: sdlrodeo on July 21, 2008, 08:18:42 PM
I'm a big time pro-gunner. Anytime people are shooting, let me know, I'm THERE! If of course I'm not working. I have lots of guns if people are interested in trying them to see what "fits". On that note, here are a few of my OPINIONS:
The Best gun is the one you will carry.
Tell anyone who says, "that round/caliber/bullet is no good" to stand downrange and let you shoot them with it if it is no good.
A giant Desert Eagle .50 will sure do the trick but looks funny tucked in your jeans.
I do not agree with the PLAN to carry a gun in the car. Once in a while if you need to leave it there because you need to go somewhere you can't legally carry, that's fine. I just don't believe it should be there all the time. Cars get broken into and guns get stolen. Both are Really Bad.
Don't get a gun to "scare" someone.
Don't point your gun at anything you don't intend to DESTROY!
Be sure of your target AND beyond.
Don't shoot to mame, Don't shoot to Kill, DO shoot to stop the attack. And by that, I mean one shot may not be enough.
There is a lot more to discuss.
I need to read thru all of the posts. I'm sort of jumping on the tail end of it. I'll do that and add when I get a chance.
Steve
+1
My Gun Control Rules:
Use both hands.
Don't aim at anyone you aren't willing to shoot.
Don't shoot anyone you aren't willing to kill.
Don't "wing" anyone; shoot to kill.
Quote from: NorDog on July 22, 2008, 10:27:20 AM
My Gun Control Rules:
Use both hands.
Don't "wing" anyone; shoot to kill.
I think you may want to rethink both of these. The first one isn't a big deal if both your hands are working, but what if they bad guy already incapacitated one of your hands. (practice strong and/or weak hand only shooting, reloading and general gun manipulation). The second one is a big legal no-no. They have another name for the act of shooting to kill-Murder. You should only shoot to stop the attack. You should aim at center mass. This can be confusing, but what is meant by that is aiming for center mass of the available target. The exception is the failure drill. This is when your centermass (body) shots FAIL to stop the attack (bullet proof vest, etc.) thus causing you to aim for nervous system shutdown which is still the centermass of the head. There is a WHOLE lot more to this and these words should not be considered an end-all be-all nor legal advise whatsoever. Just discussion.
OK, this morning, I finally had time to read thru all the posts on this thread. Fasttwin already mentioned all of this so I apologize for the redundancy. Still, not bad hearing it again.
On that note, I too do not wish an armed encounter on anyone. Even if you win, you still lose something. I'd imagine...
Steve
+1....... So are we gonna go shooting? ;D
I used to be a member at The Bullet Trap in Plano off of Ave K and Park. They have a great selection of guns to rent and have CHL classes every weekend. The classes are almost always full for weeks, so it's best to register early if you want to take the class. They also do all the fingerprinting and photos there if needed. I did my shooting (to qualify) there too. I think I paid $180......a few years ago. And there is a Ducati dealership down the road. [moto]
What's scary about this is the idea that there are thousands of citizens out there possibly carrying a concealed weapon..... and most would not know how to react in case of an emergency situation where you might need to use deadly force. It's almost to the point that wearing a ballistic vest would provide more comfort than carrying a gun. JMHO. [roll]
On the other hand, I sure do love my guns. [thumbsup]
I like the "gun showroom" idea of getting together in a Sterile location and letting people handle the guns. This area can be at some ranges, but most will not allow this display. The Range on the bank of the trinity south of Dallas off of 45 is one that this could be done at. I will say, this should be set up and strictly run.
When dealing with a group, it is WAY too easy for a live round to slip its way into an "unloaded" weapon and hurt/kill someone by accident.
What I meant above by a Sterile area is an ammo free zone. This area should have someone doing pat downs (marshal) so that no one accidently forgets a round in a pocket. This is just good safety. Still, unloaded weapons should be pointed in a safe direction.
If anyone wants, I can help set that up or offer suggestions. Thru the training I've had and the experiences gained from shooting several pistol competitions in IDPA and IPSC I might have some good info to pass along.
Steve
Quote from: sdlrodeo on July 24, 2008, 07:31:09 AM
I like the "gun showroom" idea of getting together in a Sterile location
While certainly not Sterile, the WareHome might be a good venue
Just say when. ;D
When it gets a little cooler... :P
Quote from: sdlrodeo on July 24, 2008, 07:31:09 AM
I like the "gun showroom" idea of getting together in a Sterile location and letting people handle the guns. This area can be at some ranges, but most will not allow this display. The Range on the bank of the trinity south of Dallas off of 45 is one that this could be done at. I will say, this should be set up and strictly run.
When dealing with a group, it is WAY too easy for a live round to slip its way into an "unloaded" weapon and hurt/kill someone by accident.
What I meant above by a Sterile area is an ammo free zone. This area should have someone doing pat downs (marshal) so that no one accidently forgets a round in a pocket. This is just good safety. Still, unloaded weapons should be pointed in a safe direction.
If anyone wants, I can help set that up or offer suggestions. Thru the training I've had and the experiences gained from shooting several pistol competitions in IDPA and IPSC I might have some good info to pass along.
Steve
I vote for Steve and Brian to be "Sterilizers" for the LSD Gun Showroom. [thumbsup]
Serously, I really like the idea and the fact that we've got a couple of (seemingly) very experienced and responsible individuals that are willing to help out.
I agree with Scott, let's do this sometime when it's a little cooler (say after the Hill Country Ride, maybe?).
I'd be happy to help out as long as it is talked about before hand so that it can be done as safely as possible. I too have seen too many newbies at ranges waving guns around. I'm not very fond of being around that if I can avoid it. Don't mean to sound like a safety Nazi, but then again, would that be so wrong?
On that note, If one does decide to get a handgun, I know of a few places that you can go to "race" it in some competitions. If you like racing your bike, safely racing a gun is pretty fun too.
Any questions, feel free to email me at sdlrodeo@yahoo.com if you don't want to put it on the list.
Steve
we need to have a LSD paintball day, too. i imagine that would be easy enough to arrange.
I've never been involved in a paintball match. Seems like it'd be fun.
Steve
Quote from: sdlrodeo on July 26, 2008, 08:36:24 PM
I've never been involved in a paintball match. Seems like it'd be fun.
Steve
heh...i'm guessing it will go from fun...to someone pissed off at someone for getting shot in the face....back to laughs and good times, followed by beers and some type of unhealthy food.
Quote from: McKraut on July 26, 2008, 08:38:40 PM
heh...i'm guessing it will go from fun...to someone pissed off at someone for getting shot in the face....back to laughs and good times, followed by beers and some type of unhealthy food.
I think u pretty much covered the entire experience. Except the child birth and last rites of the participants.
Quote from: McKraut on July 24, 2008, 08:25:29 PM
we need to have a LSD paintball day, too. i imagine that would be easy enough to arrange.
WORD TO THIS....+5000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
or i can write "CHL" on a notecard... and give that to you for free...
Off topic----
Ronr, I can't stop lookng at your avitar. I kinda have this legs and butty weakness and that has got to be one of the best sets I've seen! ;D
Darn it! Why are avatars so SMALL!?! [bang]
Here's a pretty cool little animation showing the assembly of a M1911. The animation of the firing mechanics towards the end is a great visualization of the inner workings.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoohXVsQ1NU
Quote from: dallas2r on July 28, 2008, 09:50:14 PM
Here's a pretty cool little animation showing the assembly of a M1911. The animation of the firing mechanics towards the end is a great visualization of the inner workings.
Well, thanks for the class Will. [thumbsup]
really cool vid
and thanks to that vid...i got to see carl fire two .45s...what a treat; carl is truly at the top of his game.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1C87Jt8SNi0
Cool 1911 video.
That was a really cool video. I have a Kimber stainless Goldmatch and love it! Looking to buy a smaller Kimber soon. [thumbsup]
Quote from: Asia1098 on July 29, 2008, 08:24:44 AM
That was a really cool video. I have a Kimber stainless Goldmatch and love it! Looking to buy a smaller Kimber soon. [thumbsup]
Im thinking of getting the RCP II for carry purposes to replace my lost USP [thumbsup]
i like the aesthetics of the USP much better over the RCP. and most glocks even more so.... or is that like telling a wine connoisseur that i like merlot?
Quote from: McKraut on July 29, 2008, 01:08:05 PM
i like the aesthetics of the USP much better over the RCP. and most glocks even more so.... or is that like telling a wine connoisseur that i like merlot? [thumbsup]
The RCP has been trim way down for concealed carry... Snag free with .45 knock down power
Anything with the name Kimber on it is gonna be great! [thumbsup]
Glocks are probably one of the best made handguns in the world. Extremely reliable and easy to use. Only thing I have with them is I think they are kinda ugly and they feel kind of unbalanced if its your first gun. Accuracy is dead on with the ones I've tried.
I've also owned Para Ordinance LDA's and they aren't too shabby either. I used to have the P10 Night Hog.... a totally black double stacked micro 1911. It was very intimidating to shoot due to it's tiny size, but it was small enough to conceal if you have the body shape. With my skinny butt, it made me look like I had a tumor on my side. ;D
Quote from: Asia1098 on July 29, 2008, 06:19:10 PM
Anything with the name Kimber on it is gonna be great! [thumbsup]
Glocks are probably one of the best made handguns in the world. Extremely reliable and easy to use. Only thing I have with them is I think they are kinda ugly and they feel kind of unbalanced if its your first gun. Accuracy is dead on with the ones I've tried.
I've also owned Para Ordinance LDA's and they aren't too shabby either. I used to have the P10 Night Hog.... a totally black double stacked micro 1911. It was very intimidating to shoot due to it's tiny size, but it was small enough to conceal if you have the body shape. With my skinny butt, it made me look like I had a tumor on my side. ;D
I had been carrying a Kimber Pro Covert II (http://www.kimberamerica.com/pistols/covert/pro_covert_II/) (4 inch) but unfortunately and against one of my own personal rules I had to sell it. I am looking to get another soon. It was heavy and some what bulky but I could carry it without any problem, even in shorts and a t-shirt so I imagine the RCP will be very easy to conceal. For now though, my trusty old Glock 23 is in the service and as you said those things are as solid as it gets [thumbsup]. If your a 1911 fan check out the TRP (http://www.springfield-armory.com/armory.php?model=11), this thing is so sweet... I may have to skip the RCP and get one of them instead!
Quote from: McKraut on July 29, 2008, 01:08:05 PM
i like the aesthetics of the USP much better over the RCP. and most glocks even more so.... or is that like telling a wine connoisseur that i like merlot?
Nah, they are all fine tools that will do the job. Its what works best for you, I can shoot my USP better than my Kimber but I can shoot my glock better than the Kimber and the USP. Although having/wanting/pining for a Kimber is kinda like being into Italian motorcycles or something ;D and Kimbers are not even the top of the list as far as HIGH end 1911's go.
Quote from: Kevin848 on July 30, 2008, 04:28:19 AM
I had been carrying a ... (4 inch)
{insert requisite phallic joke here}
Quote from: McKraut on July 30, 2008, 05:11:55 AM
{insert requisite phallic joke here}
I go out of my way to make sure my posts dont contain anything that can be manipulated or read into some kind of innuendo, way to catch me off guard [bang].
Wanted: 1 proof reader with a dirty sense of humor.
Quote from: Kevin848 on July 30, 2008, 05:18:27 AM
Wanted: 1 proof reader with a dirty sense of humor.
Does said proof reader have nights and weekends off? Vacation? Pay package? Benefits? [bacon]
Quote from: pipeliner1978 on July 30, 2008, 09:12:26 AM
Does said proof reader have nights and weekends off? Vacation? Pay package? Benefits? [bacon]
[bacon] for sure, everything else is iffy at best.
Done!