Hello collective Monster brain trust! [bow_down]
It's the dead of winter here in Minnesota and my 2001 M900s ie has been dyno tuned by Doug Lofgren and is now in the hands of local our local Ohlins suspension dude/all around Duc wrench, Anthony Decker. [he comes highly recommended by Doug] As the service list for the Monster has solidified, Anthony and I have discussed what all really NEEDS to be done to the bike [31k miles showing and no service records] but I'm not sure where to put some extra $ at. I'm feeling that, as the list has gotten a little longer [spelled: expensive] I might be getting penny-wise/pound foolish but.....I just don't know.
After getting a good look at the bike's stock suspension, rebuilding the stock Sachs is out. We're looking at either the more entry level Ohlins DU 044 or the more advanced DU 440. The 044 is a shim piston chambered shock vs the emulsion stock Sachs. I'll be riding solo on this bike so basic preload adjustment will be pretty much set and done. The shock will be sprung and set up for my weight.
The 440 has the added features of a adjust-on-the-fly remote adjustability for rebound and dampening as well as the remote reservoir for heat dissipation for the oil.
The difference in price is about $227 higher for the more advanced 440. Duc mechanic has been thinking he can dial in the forks as they are [with correct settings] instead of just spending the $370 to rebuild them [springs, fresh oil and new seals - the current seals are not leaking] without taking the process in steps. He's thinking that the new rear Ohlins, properly set up, will really work some miracles for the ride. He's a advocate of the rebound and dampening adjustability on the 440 as well as the heat dissipation due to the remote reservoir. His feeling is the money is better spent on upgrading the shock to the DU 440, betting the forks can be set up better for my weight and riding with simply adjusting them for ME. I don't know where the current fork settings are at. They felt stiff and a little chattery on my 1st REAL ride last fall, where I was able to push it more than in town. Adding a 1/2 to 3/4 inch of new seat padding with a gel insert should help with riding comfort too.
I've read on this forum how some guys are adjusting the suspension as they're riding. Sounds nice and all that. I guess road conditions CAN change. I dunno. Since I've never had that remote adjustability option I've never missed it? I've never had it on any of my bikes. The roads around here are pretty consistent in surface quality....but not always.
Also, the heat dissipation feature SEEMS like more something you'd find on a track bike than on a bike a bike a guy like me would be riding? The bike WILL be pushed a little on some great twisty/turny roads but mostly ridden around town with some quick acceleration. I do occasionally get into triple digits out of town but usually just on a straightaway and not for long either.
So, what's the general feeling on spending the extra $ on the DU 440. Worth it?
The total cost to bring this bike into top notch shape is getting up there and I'm not made of money ..... BUT, I'll hate myself if I get a case of "the cheapies" and pull back from spending where it might really count.
Thanks and best wishes,
Diamond Dog -
I have the 440 and use the remote compression damping. I'd highly recommend going that route.
So, the DU044 does have compression adjustability 'kind of' combined with rebound wheel?
Even if that's a budget solution it's so muuuuch better than what you have.
You shouldn't quote a random forum guy and then disregard your trusted expert, but since you ask and it doesn't hurt to gather info: I think that the front/rear harmony, which I believe is most important, requires a little more fork work before the 044 -> 440 upgrade.
I would say, get DU 440.
You will have the ability to adjust the compression damping.
(DU 044 only has rebound damping adjuster and preload adjuster.)
Right now, you are not sure if you will ever use it, because you have never had (used) it before.
You WILL use it, once you get the DU 440 on your bike and start riding it.
As for remote reservoir and heat dissipation.
While it is true that if you ride like a sane people and ride like you are riding on the street(as opposed to ride like a maniac, ride on the street as if you are on the race track), you wouldn't have problem with DU 044. But it's nice to have separate (remote) reservoir. And I just want to point out that heat build up is more related to the "how quickly and frequently suspension components are moving" rather than "how fast the vehicle is moving"
Riding on interstate at steady 80 MPH doesn't really warm up the suspension (if at all.)
The video below, he's only in 1st and 2nd gear (mostly in 1st gear) but this will really heat up the suspension despite the low vehicle speed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcSRPnExjG8
Not as extreme as gymkhana, but riding through the city of San Francisco is a lot of hard work for your suspension (and tires, brakes.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wD64vlMxLA
I have not tried an 044, but if it's as good as a well set up entry level Penske then its a good shock. Someone here will have tried one. The suspension guys here will know how the price difference accounts for improvement between the two and if it is bang for buck value.
Your suspension guy could look inside your forks and adjust the valving to suit your weight, roads and riding style. He may also fit linear springs or modify the stockers to suit your weight. If your suspension guy is that good, (and DL says he is, so that settles it), then he can do a good job on the forks. There are many threads here about mitigating the oem forks's substantial shortcomings. Unfortunately many of us have found dissatisfaction with the unmodified suspension of our bike once the other end's suspension is improved. If you're young, dont have a stack of kids and a huge mortgage then spend the money ;D. Get the front and rear to work in harmony as confidence in the front end on corner entry and under braking is everything.
Rack up that overtime man! 8)
If you're a track rider, then a good suspension guy can build you a non adjustable shock that will work most of the time.
If you are a street guy, or a track guy that rides a lot of different tracks, then go for the adjustability.
Steve freakin McQueen still personifies cool
Thanks you guys.
Yeah, I get that the oil isn't gonna get hot just riding down a pretty even surface, even at speed. The low speed crazy-turning will heat that shock oil much more. I'm meeting with the mechanic next week and will discuss both front end service and shock options - cost vs. benefit. It just helps to have a few more ed-u-m-a-cated opinions.
Sigh.
My little $2400 monster is starting to get up there in cost ..... and yet, I have GREAT problems!!!! That damn bike just puts 1 big, fat, stupid grin on my face ;D
The 01 900Sie is one of the best models made imho.
koko64 and all,
I HATE getting cheap at just the wrong time. [My brother and I figure it comes from our dad] The mechanic IS getting me a really good price on the DU 440.....and I feel the forks should be serviced if we're going this far with everything else. I figure that, next to acceleration ability the bike has, the suspension is the second most important aspect this bike has? Ok, maybe brakes are kinda important too [roll] The bike will have been completely sorted as of this spring and will have been set up for my weight, height, inseam, etc. Kinda cool.
anyway,
Somewhere I heard somebody say "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten" It's tough to remember sometimes. Overtime, here I come.
;D [thumbsup]
Suspension is far more important than acceleration IMO.
Anyone can go fast in a straight line. ;)
"Somewhere I heard somebody say "Quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten" It's tough to remember sometimes. Overtime, here I come."
Sooo true!
440 you'll just forget, it's simply there and works.
Check up the Showablues thread for forks.
Check up the Showablues thread for forks.
Oh man, my brain hurts just skimming through the 'how-to' thread. Incredibly informative but it sure looks to be above my pay grade to attempt? I can manage to do some of the basic stuff but the higher mechanical skill set just plumb evades me. [If you need me to make a ring, laser weld a jewelry repair, cast platinum, 950PD or 18kt PD, etc. hey, ... I'm your guy] I think the best I can do is to bring the thread to the attention of the suspension dude and see what he thinks. I've pretty much tapped out my "Hey buddeeee, wanna hang out in the garage, taste a few cold ones [drink] and help me wrench on the Monster?" resources, getting it as far as I have.
I only have so many friends I can trick, er, I mean persuade into helping me ;)
[evil] [evil] [evil]
But you can`t have front upset the rear... ;)
I printed off the 1st and 2nd parts of the thread. I'll see what he says. I found a 2001 Monster S compatible Race Tech Gold Valve kit on Ebay for a fair price. I'll see what kind of reaction that gets from him too.
Would the Race Tech kit alleviate the same issues addressed in the Showa blues front suspension repair thread? Less machining or screwing around on his part with the same results?
It kinda seems like I'm just that close to clearing up the fork suspension issue already .... with a oil, seals and spring change? Just a little further with the suspension repair or Race Tech upgrade?
Bueller? ..... Bueller?
Well,
I know there has been some threads and / or posts in threads where other modifications have been made and claimed to work well. Or at least better than stock.
Maybe I should investigate parts availability and update the Showa Blues thread slightly. Since I wrote that thread, I have gained some more knowledge and experience ....
For road use, I do not use the K-tech pistons, Gold Valves are a better alternative for the road (due to the bigger ports). However, if the damping circuit is not modified it does not really help much.
On forks I havemade the last few years I have used only the K-tech reboun valve holder, needle, spring and nut, and standard Showa compression pistons (left-overs from other jobs and scrapped forks).
Maybe someone who has succeeded in improving the standard components to work decently could chime in here?
My brother has the same bike with Ohlins 440 out back and modified forks. He got the shock and then later on the modified forks from a member wrecking a 2000 M900S. I remember it was greatly improved compared to stock at both ends when I rode it after the changes. The shock was improved as you would expect, but the modified forks had greatly improved road holding and feedback compared to the vague, mushy feel of the stock forks.
Edit: Having pm'ed him, my bro confirmed the forks were much improved from the stock forks. He did not know what was done to them.
I realize this thread started on rear shocks and has wandered into fork suspension.
Sorry about that.
I'll be having a meeting next Monday with duc suspension guy and all around wrench, Anthony, to discuss the list of fixes before spring, the costs and my budget, selling my child and whatever else to pay for it all, etc.... I'm pretty sure the 440 and fork service is on the table. I'll see if anyone else has anything to add to koko64, MonsterHPD, greenmonster, ducpainter, etc. current postings and bring anything relevant along. We'll discuss all the points you guys have brought up. He has tested the Sachs to discover it was only holding a gas charge at approx. 60lbs psi when [I think he said] it should be around 240 psi? He tried filling it but it just dropped back down.
I've been thinking about this front suspension issue. I remember the 01's front end bouncing out of the fall line of a curve I was cranking on last year. It was my first solid ride of the season, just before I stopped riding for the winter. The uneven road surface caused it, the tire bounced up and was "pushed" to outside of the curve by an inch or 2 but I recovered fine. I was leaned over just enough that I remember it spooked me a little. I'd hate for the suspension to feel like it isn't trustworthy, if that makes sense? The cornering of the bike is so much apart of it's allure. That and gettin' off the line quick. ;D I just like to open the door of my garage to see it sitting there too.
Anyway, thanks for input.