So I work for a GC, and as everyone knows GC's are obsessed with safety which is a good thing. There's a couple other guys here that ride to work, and they just gave me a heads up that the corporate safety guy told them 'no riding to work, end of conversation.'
To clarify, the other guys either also have company cars or an allowance. I do not. Regardless, I don't see what right a company can have to dictate how you get to and from work. Even if they have a company car, they aren't under company insurance when driving other vehicles right?
Now, he hasn't said anything to me yet, but what is my response if he does? And 'pound sand' would probably get me fired.
Enlighten me worthy DMF brothers...
They may be able to tell you to not park in the construction area, but I doubt very seriously they can tell you how to get to work. Do you have a written contract with some type of clause in it specifying that?
Wow, what a pain in the ass! What is next, they tell you to become a vegetarian and not eat [bacon] due to the health risks?
They can't prevent you from riding to work. OTOH, they can find something totally unrelated to fire you for if they're total asses.
I do not practice in Colorado, so don't take this as legal advice, but this sounds like BS to me. What you do off the clock should be your business. Check out: http://www.aclu.org/workplacerights/gen/13395res20020312.html (http://www.aclu.org/workplacerights/gen/13395res20020312.html)
A lot of the content has to do with employer actions against smokers, but CO looks to have broader protections that could very well cover riding to work:
"To correct the shortcomings of current law, twenty-one states have passed lifestyle discrimination statutes. The majority of these protect only smokers, but a few are broader. Colorado and North Dakota ban discrimination based on any form of legal off-duty behavior."
Maybe the ACLU office in Denver can send you a pamphlet on Colorado employment law you can give to your employer when they come to discuss the issue. [evil]
Of course, you can be right and still be fired -- in which case you'd have to decide if it was worth fighting them on it, getting a lawyer, etc.
Quote from: russelson on July 23, 2008, 08:59:16 AM
I do not practice in Colorado, so don't take this as legal advice, but this sounds like BS to me. What you do off the clock should be your business. Check out: http://www.aclu.org/workplacerights/gen/13395res20020312.html (http://www.aclu.org/workplacerights/gen/13395res20020312.html)
A lot of the content has to do with employer actions against smokers, but CO looks to have broader protections that could very well cover riding to work:
"To correct the shortcomings of current law, twenty-one states have passed lifestyle discrimination statutes. The majority of these protect only smokers, but a few are broader. Colorado and North Dakota ban discrimination based on any form of legal off-duty behavior."
Maybe the ACLU office in Denver can send you a pamphlet on Colorado employment law you can give to your employer when they come to discuss the issue. [evil]
Of course, you can be right and still be fired -- in which case you'd have to decide if it was worth fighting them on it, getting a lawyer, etc.
Of course here in Colorado the employer has an out for all other laws due to it's "work at will" status. Because of the protections it affords an employee it also grants a lot of power to the employer, such as the ability to fire you for just about any reason. I'm to lazy to look up the statutes but it's pretty amazing what it allows for
WTF is GC?
That's great info russelson, thanks a lot! Yes, Colorado being an at-will state makes it tough. Hence why I can't say pound sand. They would probably fire me, at will!
No, I have no sort of contract what so ever here. There is an 'employee handbook', but it certainly doesn't address transportation to and from work.
MY feeling is if they approach me, I'll tell them how I get to and from work is none of their concern. If they would like me to not ride for work-related business, or avoid riding on sites due to hazards, I'm alright with that. In that case, they can provide me a company truck since they are preventing me from using my personal mode of transportation during work hours. Does that sound rebellious enough with out finding my ass in the unemployment line??
If I had to guess, their line of reasoning is that they are taking on the expense of providing a way for these guys to commute - instead, they are riding their bikes, which may or may not be perceived as a risk to the company (having them out of work, healing from a crash). Maybe that conversation went more like "We are paying for your car. Use it."
If they do approach you, I would try to do my best to figure out the reasoning behind the decision, and figure out at what level of management this decision was made. If it was a middle manager who suddenly got a hair up his ass, going to HR would be the next step - they will probably be more worried about the legal implications than you will be. Also, I have had success contesting things like this by escalating "discussions" to "meetings" - "This brings up some concerns... could we sit down with everyone, I'll arrange a meeting." It challenges the authority of the decisionmaker to take whim and put it into policy by trying to elevate it above a water cooler discussion. If this was a corporate edict, you'll probably want to look at any employee agreement you may have signed.
Legally, I can't imagine that they have a leg to stand on unless you signed a contract specifically stating otherwise. That said, it may be hard to get someone to commit this new no motorcycle policy to paper, and therefore hard to fight as an official policy. If they do lay this bullshit at your feet you will have to judge the probability of successfully fighting this against what possible unofficial repercussions there may be for making a stink about it.
In either case, good luck, let us know how it goes.
Quote from: NvrSummer on July 23, 2008, 08:35:31 AM
To clarify, the other guys either also have company cars or an allowance. I do not.
Perhaps this is the real issue. It may be that they don't want company cars to be company bikes, and that's a perfectly reasonable request, IMO. But, I'm not a lawyer like some of the other respondents here are.
Why wait to be fired? Tell them to fk off, kick 'em in the nuts and ride off.....on your bike.
If I were you I would start looking for a new job now.
Once you have a good offer go to your current employer, ask for a raise and tell them that you are going to continue to ride your bike to work.
How the fck can they dictate what you do during the time they haven't paid for. If you want to masturbate without safety goggles on your own time that's your business.
>:(
[popcorn]
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should not SHALL NOT be compromised. You have no contract with them to operate any other kind of vehicle, or more importantly, to operate whatever vehicle you choose to drag your weary carcass to the job site each day? My friend- wrongful dismissal would be more lucrative for you in the long run than paying the price of losing your rights and granting these fascist, smegheads the power to take those rights without compensation. Continue to ride your bike, DO start looking for a new employer and be entirely honest with yourself and them when the day comes and they say "No more cycle." You say, "Hasta la vista, Mr. Doodyhead".
Job interviewer: "Have you ever been fired?"
you: "YEP!"
J.I.: "May I ask why?"
you: "They didn't want me to ride my motorcycle to work."
J.I.: " :o "
you: " 8)"
J.I.: "You're hired!"
QuoteWTF is GC?
Yes, GC = general contractor, sorry thought that was a given.
QuoteIf I had to guess, their line of reasoning is that they are taking on the expense of providing a way for these guys to commute - instead, they are riding their bikes, which may or may not be perceived as a risk to the company (having them out of work, healing from a crash). Maybe that conversation went more like "We are paying for your car. Use it."
I agree with this to a certain extent, but if you're riding your bike and paying for your own gas, can they really say anything? I'm sure there's no clause in the vehicle agreement that says 'you must drive your truck everyday, no exceptions.' My bigger concern is that although I don't have a company truck now, I will in the future, and if that means I can't ride to work than f that! It's my understanding that company insurance only covers you while driving a company vehicle, and if you have a vehicle allowance you can spend it as you see fit. Me thinks I won't hear a word from the safety department until I possess a company vehicle.
Quotegoing to HR would be the next step
Funny thing is, the guy that gave me the heads up is the HR manager.
QuoteWhy wait to be fired? Tell them to fk off, kick 'em in the nuts and ride off.....on your bike.
QuoteIf I were you I would start looking for a new job now.
I'd love to. Anyone work for a cool company that's hiring PE's/APM's/Asst Supts???
Quote from: c_rex on July 23, 2008, 10:40:04 AM
Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness should not SHALL NOT be compromised. You have no contract with them to operate any other kind of vehicle, or more importantly, to operate whatever vehicle you choose to drag your weary carcass to the job site each day? My friend- wrongful dismissal would be more lucrative for you in the long run than paying the price of losing your rights and granting these fascist, smegheads the power to take those rights without compensation. Continue to ride your bike, DO start looking for a new employer and be entirely honest with yourself and them when the day comes and they say "No more cycle." You say, "Hasta la vista, Mr. Doodyhead".
Job interviewer: "Have you ever been fired?"
you: "YEP!"
J.I.: "May I ask why?"
you: "They didn't want me to ride my motorcycle to work."
J.I.: " :o "
you: " 8)"
J.I.: "You're hired!"
I love the logic C Rex, but there's too many loopholes. Trust me, I'd love to tell the egos on a powertrip to f-off, but I don't think it's in my best interest. One thing I can guarantee, I will NOT stop riding to work.
Quote from: NvrSummer on July 23, 2008, 10:48:25 AM
One thing I can guarantee, I will NOT stop riding to work.
... this is all that matters [thumbsup] [thumbsup]
Quote from: NvrSummer on July 23, 2008, 10:44:26 AM
I'd love to. Anyone work for a cool company that's hiring PE's/APM's/Asst Supts???
I could get you a job up here in about 3 seconds flat. Of course you would have to live in shittiest part of Canada. No mountains, -40 winters, straight roads.
:'(
That's why I'm moving at the end of August. [thumbsup]
Quote from: gambit688 on July 23, 2008, 09:14:50 AM
Of course here in Colorado the employer has an out for all other laws due to it's "work at will" status. Because of the protections it affords an employee it also grants a lot of power to the employer, such as the ability to fire you for just about any reason. I'm to lazy to look up the statutes but it's pretty amazing what it allows for
At-will employment is still be subject to anti-discrimination statutes. That is, they can fire you because they don't like your job performance, but the cannot fire you if the basis for the termination is your status as a protected class - i.e. race, gender, etc. The tricky issue becomes proving it. The employer will, of course, say that the termination was for legitimate performance reasons, with the employee arguing the legitimate reason was just a pretext.
If you are going to take the employer on, your best bet would be to find an employment lawyer in your area before the sh*t hits the fan and get a quick consulation so you can know the law, as well as the risks and costs you are going to face. Many lawyers will do an initial consult at no cost.
There has gotta be a staff attorney at the ACLU who rides. 8)
Contact the AMA
http://www.amadirectlink.com/index.asp
Quote from: russelson on July 23, 2008, 11:10:04 AM
If you are going to take the employer on, your best bet would be to find an employment lawyer in your area before the sh*t hits the fan and get a quick consulation so you can know the law, as well as the risks and costs you are going to face. Many lawyers will do an initial consult at no cost.
There has gotta be a staff attorney at the ACLU who rides. 8)
If you do this, you'd better win big, because your chances of being meaningfully re-employed are near zero. Nobody wants to hire an unsuccessful troublemaker.
[laugh]
unions?
Ha ha, yeah if I'm going to be a troublemaker I better be a successful one!
Truthfully, I'm going to keep riding and lay low until they approach me, if they do. No reason to stir up shit while I'm gainfully employed! Very good information in this thread for when they do though. Russelson, your advice is very helpful, thank you.
Lucazuma, I'm in project management, no unions for me.
I'll let you guys know if the shit hits the fan here, but I think I'm safe. Just noticed that the guy who warned me also rode in today and parked his Vrod right outside the door next to my Monster, so I assume he has the same attitude as everyone here.
Quote from: NvrSummer on July 23, 2008, 12:43:37 PM
Ha ha, yeah if I'm going to be a troublemaker I better be a successful one!
Truthfully, I'm going to keep riding and lay low until they approach me, if they do. No reason to stir up shit while I'm gainfully employed! Very good information in this thread for when they do though. Russelson, your advice is very helpful, thank you.
Lucazuma, I'm in project management, no unions for me.
I'll let you guys know if the shit hits the fan here, but I think I'm safe. Just noticed that the guy who warned me also rode in today and parked his Vrod right outside the door next to my Monster, so I assume he has the same attitude as everyone here.
if i had to guess this "rumor" probably deals more with the people with company cars that maybe aren't using them to goto work. the whole "we pay for it you better use it" thing. since like you said you don't have a company car yet, they rpobably can't say antyhing, but once you do, i would personally go along with it if they say "we give you this vehicle we want you using it at work and to get to and from work , we pay insurance and gas on it, so use it" then you can say "ok".. if they are pyaing for gas for teh vehicle then by all means use it to commute to work, its on their dime.
you could always say you ride to work bc you need to save more money, fi they pay you more then you will drive to work.
If they do tell you to drive let them know that they will need to pay for the extra Gas $.
Hell if i was one of teh guys with the company car I'd tll them the same thing unless they also have aq company gas card to go with that company car...I don't know how those kinda things work ???
If there are enough of you ride to work and you stick together they will be between a rock and a hard place.
Quote from: sbrguy on July 23, 2008, 01:13:17 PM
if i had to guess this "rumor" probably deals more with the people with company cars that maybe aren't using them to goto work. the whole "we pay for it you better use it" thing. since like you said you don't have a company car yet, they rpobably can't say antyhing, but once you do, i would personally go along with it if they say "we give you this vehicle we want you using it at work and to get to and from work , we pay insurance and gas on it, so use it" then you can say "ok".. if they are pyaing for gas for teh vehicle then by all means use it to commute to work, its on their dime.
you could always say you ride to work bc you need to save more money, fi they pay you more then you will drive to work.
Exactly my point in an earlier post. I don't care so much now, but when the time comes that I do get a company car, I'm not sure I want to give up my option to ride to work. Free gas is free gas, but I love to ride the bike.
Screw it, what kind of corporate pussy have I turned into? Live to ride and ride to live, right?!?
Aside from the possibility of driving a company car, this seems unlikely to be an issue. It's just too crazy sounding to be realistic. ;D
I just can't imagine any manager anywhere trying to tell me what to do outside of work. Just find a polite way to say "your authority over me doesn't extend outside of when I'm on the clock," and there is no reasonable way they can respond except for "oh ya, of course."
Quote from: NvrSummer on July 23, 2008, 12:43:37 PM
Lucazuma, I'm in project management, no unions for me.
...hmmm...well then found one :)
or wait untill they fire you and than move to Cali...ill see what i can do for ya out here...im an architect 8)
I dont know, unless you use your bike for company business, traveling to & from jobs AND you clock-in at the company office. This would put your later activities under workmans comp insurance. Not something most companies wish to assume liability for. That said, if your comapany wants to take this stance must provide alternative transportation to and from the work site. Unless when you hired on this requiremnt was identified. Dont take it personally, talk to the HR department to understand whats going on. Chances are there is a misunderstanding somewhere. Be proactive, first get the requiirment in writing, use email to request clearification , keep records and talk to HR.
What wrong with using bikes for company businesses'? ..... I do so & the company still allows me to a car mileage claim. ....... If the company doesn't want me to do their million dollar businesses on a bike, ...... then gimme a car 8) ;D
Insurance reasons or otherwise, it is a bunch of bologna. The Marine Corps has cracked down hard over the past few years on motorcycle riders...all based on statistics. I have been riding for several yrs and Commanders are very particular, but I have never been told I cannot ride. They talked about having special courses for sportbike riders, something I don't agree with. If it applies to a sportbike rider, it should apply to all. Hell, I'd park next door and walk 50ft taht way you never come on company property.
I don't think Agency law is going to apply until you're actually on the clock. What you ride before and after that (or off the clock) is your own business. EOS.
Quote from: venomousr1993 on July 23, 2008, 07:10:40 PM
Hell, I'd park next door and walk 50ft taht way you never come on company property.
Rite on ..... & you can tell them, "I walked to work." 8)
Quote from: slyfox on July 23, 2008, 07:18:28 PM
Rite on ..... & you can tell them, "I walked to work." 8)
that's dangerous, you could twist your ankle.
Quote from: aaronb on July 23, 2008, 07:30:16 PM
that's dangerous, you could twist your ankle.
Time to gear up for the walk. [cheeky]
Tell that guy to go kick rocks!
We as INDIVIDUALS need to stand up for our RIGHTS granted by our Creator to be stupid, dangerous, and [bacon]!!
Hmmm is it possible the guy with the Vrod is jerking your chain ...knowing damn well that you ride a non-HD product??
Quote from: NvrSummer on July 23, 2008, 02:15:31 PM
Exactly my point in an earlier post. I don't care so much now, but when the time comes that I do get a company car, I'm not sure I want to give up my option to ride to work. Free gas is free gas, but I love to ride the bike.
Screw it, what kind of corporate pussy have I turned into? Live to ride and ride to live, right?!?
if it's like our trucks, there's two reasons they'd be pissed if a guy assigned one didn't bring it in: first they've tied up the resource giving it to him, and he's buggering off and using his own vehicle? second they may have a need for the vehicle onsite or for errands, so it's useless if it's in the guys driveway at home and he's at work.
if they give you a company car, and the riding weather comes - that's when you park the company car at work and moto back & forth. [thumbsup]
Screw em... [coffee]
I ride to work everyday and..
if I get injured riding to work or riding home from work, I am covered by Workers Compensation (insurance).
Already had to use it. Before I had my bike, my truck had a flat battery when I tried to start it in the morning. Tried to push it to clutch start it, POP, there goes my Achilles Tendon. :-\
Surgery, physiotherapy, two months off work.....all covered by my Workers Compensation. [thumbsup]. I don't pay a penny.
Just sayin. ;)
And I was compensated from all the regular overtime I was rostered on for. ;D
Anyway, tell 'em to go suck eggs. ;)
Quote from: Super T.I.B on July 24, 2008, 02:09:22 AM
I ride to work everyday and..
if I get injured riding to work or riding home from work, I am covered by Workers Compensation (insurance).
Already had to use it. Before I had my bike, my truck had a flat battery when I tried to start it in the morning. Tried to push it to clutch start it, POP, there goes my Achilles Tendon. :-\
Surgery, physiotherapy, two months off work.....all covered by my Workers Compensation. [thumbsup]. I don't pay a penny.
Just sayin. ;)
And I was compensated from all the regular overtime I was rostered on for. ;D
Anyway, tell 'em to go suck eggs. ;)
Was that a work specific benefit or does Workers Comp apply like that to everyone down there?
And +1 for the guy jerkin' your chain.
Nope, no chain jerking. The story's been told now from two people from different departments (one w/ co car, other w/ car allowance, FYI.) I wouldn't consider either source the kind of person that jokes around too much. Ones a crusty old super, the other is a young HR manager. Not exactly the two that would collude on something like this against a poor Duc rider. Besides, the Vrod guy has sparkle-ly flames on his bike, so he can't say shit about my bike!
I really do think it's a company car thing though like many people said, which is why I haven't heard a word from them. Still, I have a blast when I commute on the bike, so I'm not sure that's something I want to give up when I get a company car. Good to have the ammo in this thread to nip that idea right in the bud.
Quote from: Super T.I.B on July 24, 2008, 02:09:22 AM
I ride to work everyday and..
if I get injured riding to work or riding home from work, I am covered by Workers Compensation (insurance).
Already had to use it. Before I had my bike, my truck had a flat battery when I tried to start it in the morning. Tried to push it to clutch start it, POP, there goes my Achilles Tendon. :-\
Surgery, physiotherapy, two months off work.....all covered by my Workers Compensation. [thumbsup]. I don't pay a penny.
Just sayin. ;)
And I was compensated from all the regular overtime I was rostered on for. ;D
Anyway, tell 'em to go suck eggs. ;)
wo wo wo.
I had my accident on my lunch break. Man I must be a nice guy then.
I'm one of those guys, who gets an allowance, and outside sales is a large part of my duties. Riding the bike to work is discouraged, and I do agree, as any time I arrive or leave the office, it is seen as business travel, or at least assumed that I am travelling for business. Arriving for a sales appointment with a bike, is not seen as appropriate, as I cannot bring samples, and gloating my wealth (even if I don't have wealth!)
When I do ride the bike, I ensure I arrive to the office early and leave late.
Now, if I was in a different role, where working 8-5 at the office was normal duties, I wouldn't think twice about riding every nice day.
Quote from: SKOM on July 24, 2008, 07:08:28 AM
Was that a work specific benefit or does Workers Comp apply like that to everyone down there?
I'm pretty sure it's for everyone.
Don't quote me....different States may have different laws.
I get a car allowance and mostly* ride to the office or to visit customers. The customers don't seem to mind, most of them are impressed.
My coworkers seem to appreciate that I get to the customer sites faster than I would in a car as I don't have to worry about traffic.
I don't flaunt it to upper management but they all know I ride. Far better than the standard issue Ford Explorer.
(*sometimes I ride my bicycle instead, if it's close)
I've got to say if they'd use what you ride to work as an excuse to fire you if you refuse to use a car to/from work, they don't really care that much about you or your abilities. A lame ass excuse for them if ever their was one!
Chris