Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: kanzie on March 29, 2021, 02:09:35 AM

Title: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on March 29, 2021, 02:09:35 AM
Hi Monsters!

I have a Ducati Monster 796, 2013 Anniversary edition

I had a problem with the battery losing charge, nothing new here and I kept it for as long as I could but when I spent more time run-start the engine than not I realized it is time to do something about it. I bought new battery, the same model I had in the bike before and set some time aside to replace it (thank you for making it so impractical Ducati :) )

When I got the battery out I noticed it had bulges in it, so it definitely was time and frankly that worries me a bit. I charged the new battery over night and then plugged it in, connected the terminals and put the gas tank back on. When I then turned the key absolutely nothing happened. No lights, no servo doing its initial turning...simply dead!

Could this be the work of a immobilizer (shouldn't it at least show lights come on though) or something else. I know the battery is properly connected and it's only been two days since I gave it full charge so I find it hard to believe it has been drained already (but I will charge the battery again and try).

What should I try next, please advise
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on March 29, 2021, 04:52:36 AM
I looked at the wiring diagram in Italian, because Ducati USA doesn't have one online... [roll]. It appears there are three main fuses. One is for the charging system, and two are in the feeds for the ecu. I'm betting one, or both, of the two that go to the ecu are blown.

Unfortunately the diagram doesn't show the location, so I have no clue where you might find them. Typically these have been located close to the battery.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on March 29, 2021, 04:55:50 AM
Awesome, I'll look at that right away, makes a lot of sense. i just need to figure out where they are and how to test them. Is it the same type of fueses you'd find on a car or am I looking at something peculiar?

Update: I found this: https://www.manualowl.com/am/Ducati/2012-Monster%20796/Manual/10324?page=121 which I believe will be helpful
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on March 29, 2021, 05:05:53 AM
They're pretty large, but they do resemble blade type fuses, or at least the ones they used to use did. You can test them with a voltmeter with the key on, or remove them and test with an ohm meter.
One is 25 amp, and two are 30.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on March 29, 2021, 05:07:46 AM
When you disconnected/reconnected the battery, which terminal did you connect first?
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on March 29, 2021, 07:49:50 AM
I connected red (minus) first, did not get a spark or anything. But I did have a incident where the battery was turned the wrong way round so the terminals where swapped for a bit. This had the little servo engine to the top right of the battery run with a low vibration until I figured out the mistake.

The fuses are all fine but the bike is really dead. I've started charging the battery again now hoping it is just that the battery somehow has gotten drained over the last week. If not, then I'm really out of ideas
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on March 29, 2021, 09:20:35 AM
Quote from: kanzie on March 29, 2021, 07:49:50 AM
I connected red (minus) first, did not get a spark or anything. But I did have a incident where the battery was turned the wrong way round so the terminals where swapped for a bit. This had the little servo engine to the top right of the battery run with a low vibration until I figured out the mistake.

The fuses are all fine but the bike is really dead. I've started charging the battery again now hoping it is just that the battery somehow has gotten drained over the last week. If not, then I'm really out of ideas
Red is positive...+. Black is negative...-.

I hate to say this, but when the PO of my SBK connected the battery backwards, it fried the ecu. That bike was set up with a track harness with no fuses so it was completely unprotected.

Check your battery connections. You'll need a voltmeter to do much more.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on March 29, 2021, 09:25:25 AM
Then I mistyped, I followed the right order when connecting them. But I did get it reversed the first time around and that sucks but I doubt the ECU would get fried  for that. You’re giving me nightmares here  :-X

So with a voltmeter, what do I check next? Battery charge level and then trace power to the ignition or?
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: Howie on March 29, 2021, 10:54:41 AM
first check all the fuses, easy first.  Momentary reversed polarity can kill an ECU. 
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on March 29, 2021, 10:58:20 AM
Checked the fuses already, they are all good. Would a fried ecu mean that it is absolutely dead when turning the key? How do I confirm  if we ecu is busted?
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on March 29, 2021, 01:45:15 PM
Get a voltmeter and check battery voltage at the two fuses that feed the ecu. If power on both sides of the fuses, I'm afraid you might have damaged the ecu. I'm not sure how to test one.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: stopintime on March 29, 2021, 02:14:23 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 29, 2021, 01:45:15 PM
Get a voltmeter and check battery voltage at the two fuses that feed the ecu. If power on both sides of the fuses, I'm afraid you might have damaged the ecu. I'm not sure how to test one.

Diagnostic test at a dealer?
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on March 29, 2021, 05:06:33 PM
Quote from: stopintime on March 29, 2021, 02:14:23 PM
Diagnostic test at a dealer?
Not a bad idea.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: Howie on March 29, 2021, 09:15:45 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on March 29, 2021, 01:45:15 PM
Get a voltmeter and check battery voltage at the two fuses that feed the ecu. If power on both sides of the fuses, I'm afraid you might have damaged the ecu. I'm not sure how to test one.

Other than the smell of burnt electronic parts there is no field test for an ECU.  Rule out every thing else, then substitute a known good ECU, therefore,

Quote from: stopintime on March 29, 2021, 02:14:23 PM
Diagnostic test at a dealer?

is a good idea.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on March 30, 2021, 12:20:15 AM
Never had any smell of burned electronics though but that’s not a dead give away. I now charged the battery until full and checked at the terminals, it is proper 12V. Both connectors per terminal is properly attached and I got the order right according to pictures of other monsters battery placements.

Turn the key And nothing happens, not a click, a blip or any sign of life at all. Might as well turn the key without a battery at all and have the same effect.

A dealer is one hour away and I don’t have a trailer so before I go about renting one and no an appointment (next available time 20th April) I prefer to have ruled out any and all stupid mistakes.

I’ll try to figure out how to mature at the fuse box, any other obvious thing I can do?
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on March 30, 2021, 04:00:51 AM
This is what I'd do... https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-13-Ducati-Monster-796-ABS-Engine-Control-Unit-ECU-ECM-CDI-Black-Box-Module/114027911663?epid=15021768337&hash=item1a8c97d9ef:g:lG0AAOSwM~dd~-4o There's a bunch listed for short money. You haven't said if your bike has stock exhaust.

Figure what it will cost to get a trailer, take it to the dealer in a month, pay the dealer to diagnose it. Then if you have them repair it it will cost you a thousand, or more if race exhaust, for a new ecu.

Your call.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on March 30, 2021, 08:14:38 AM
How much of a plug and play would it be to get that installed and the bike running again? Is it simply replacing the existing box or would I then have to reflash the ECU etc?
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on March 30, 2021, 03:47:41 PM
Quote from: kanzie on March 30, 2021, 08:14:38 AM
How much of a plug and play would it be to get that installed and the bike running again? Is it simply replacing the existing box or would I then have to reflash the ECU etc?
You'd probably have to have it flashed to eliminate the immobilizer.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on April 01, 2021, 03:51:43 AM
How does the effect of the immobilize demonstrate itself? I know everything points to a fried ECU but every post I read on that has at least lights come on and some  life in the bike. Mine behaves as if there was no battery in the bike in the first place, there’s no spark it anything. Is that really the symptom you u would have after a fried ecu?

Seems steep too but a new ecu and flash  etc without having confirmed that is indeed the issue here
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: Howie on April 01, 2021, 05:07:05 AM
You are correct that the lights should come on without an operating ECU, which means you missed something somewhere.  Did you check the main fuse?  The fuse for the lights?  Not just visually, but with a meter.  Did you test the battery itself?

No local shop that has some Ducati experience?
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on April 01, 2021, 05:18:12 AM
Got to get my head back in the fuse box, I only did occular inspection. No local shop with ducati experience, that's what you get when you decide to move into the outback :(

I'm trying to figure out where I could have done something wrong. The battery is fully charged, both connection cables per pole is properly attached, I haven't unplugged any cables that I can think of and yet it is completely dead.

I'll go through your suggestions one by one today
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: DarkMonster620 on April 01, 2021, 05:23:51 AM
Quote from: kanzie on April 01, 2021, 05:18:12 AM
~~~
I'm trying to figure out where I could have done something wrong. ~~~
>>>I connected red (minus)first , did not get a spark or anything. But I did have a incident where the battery was turned the wrong way round so the terminals where swapped for a bit. This had the little servo engine to the top right of the battery run with a low vibration until I figured out the mistake.

RED = POSITIVE ALWAYS
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on April 01, 2021, 06:43:30 AM
You need a voltmeter.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on April 01, 2021, 07:12:38 AM
I do have that. Any suggestions on where I can read up on how to test fuses using voltmeter?
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on April 01, 2021, 12:16:15 PM
You can watch this video... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecHB8mliCbI

Or Google How to test a fuse.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: stopintime on April 01, 2021, 02:42:06 PM
Another thought along the Diagnostic lead.... a cooperative dealer or tuning specialist might be willing to receive the ECU by mail, test it by itself or in another bike - the return it to you.

Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: Orange16 on April 01, 2021, 03:37:27 PM
The ECU doesn't power the gauges or control general power supply, it is simply powered from the loom.  If there is no power at all anywhere, the problem must be upstream of those components.  Get a test light or multimeter and see where the power stops.  Is there a fuse at the starter solenoid where the white 4 pin connector clips on?  I thought there was.

Which is not to say that the battery connected the wrong way didn't kill some things.  You'll need to assess that when you get the power back.  But I wouldn't buy an ECU at this point of time.
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on April 03, 2021, 06:52:40 AM
Found the problem. Indeed fuse but not in the main fuse box but a separate box with three fuses right next to battery. Seems to run great now. Thank you all
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: stopintime on April 03, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
Quote from: kanzie on April 03, 2021, 06:52:40 AM
..... a separate box with three fuses right next to battery. Seems to run great now. Thank you all

Sounds like something someone recently mentioned  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: kanzie on April 03, 2021, 12:24:36 PM
Yes, how I found it. I did mention thank you to everyone supporting me in this thread
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: stopintime on April 03, 2021, 02:29:28 PM
 [thumbsup] [Dolph]
Title: Re: Completely dead after battery replacement
Post by: ducpainter on April 03, 2021, 03:23:21 PM
Quote from: stopintime on April 03, 2021, 10:04:05 AM
Sounds like something someone recently mentioned  [thumbsup]
Ya think?