I've been apart of the last board since the 2000 but just not too active on this one and have heard many references to the safetieness of lane splitting. I know its only legal in California but I don't understand its rational. It seems like with the rapid lane changes people do in their cars it seems more dangerous. Can someone explain this style of riding?
simple: cars don't rapidly change lanes in damn-near-stopped, bumper-to-bumper traffic.
The potential of being rear-ended in traffic is much lower if you're not the last person in line.
Quote from: EvilSteve on July 29, 2008, 07:52:22 PM
The potential of being rear-ended in traffic is much lower if you're not the last person in line.
+1 and most drivers are dicks
I thought it had something to do with protecting yourself from being rear ended but I feel like cars are always trying to switch lanes in stop and go traffic. I guess that's why you'd have to go slow and keep the idle high.
I learned to ride in So Cal and after moving here to Atlanta, the traffic is just as bad.....even though not legal, I still lane split. Not as much in my Monster, but when on my 600RR most of the time. In the summer it gets hot, especially in bumper to bumper rush hour traffic ( 45 min to 1 hr to go 18 miles is ridiculous). I am very cautious and even though the Police has seen me, they have yet to bother me. I get the squeeze or the infamous one finger salute from several drivers who are jealous or pissed off. Biggest reason though is that in the summer heat it is just too damn hot to sit idle in traffic.
Quote from: Dents on July 30, 2008, 04:26:19 AM
I thought it had something to do with protecting yourself from being rear ended but I feel like cars are always trying to switch lanes in stop and go traffic. I guess that's why you'd have to go slow and keep the idle high.
i'm sure your alabama traffic is nothing compared to our california traffic.
In Europe lane splitting is very common and considered a perk to motorcycle riding. Some stop lights take 2 or 3 changes to get through, if you are riding a motorcycle you get to travel to the front and you get through the light on the first change. Several people I worked with there rode and said the only reason they rode motorcycles was lane splitting cut their commute time in half. They did not consider better gas mileage that much of a perk because everyone car pooled. I never saw lane splitting there other than at stop lights. Although in some downtown areas there were no lines and lanes seem to be kind of where ever you happen to be so it was hard to tell.
Is it legal in CA to split the outside of a lane...i.e. the shoulders? This seems like it would be safer; minimizing the lane changeing risk.
I live in Atlanta as well and lane split when I have to. You have to watch out for the crazies though. I had a guy bump me when I got in front of him at a traffic light, like a little tap while I was sitting there waiting for the light to change. When I turned to look at him he gave me a big shit eating grin. I followed him to B&H camera and when he got out of his car I punched him square in his teeth. I nearly got arrested but the guy did not press charges.
Quote from: ducpenguin on July 30, 2008, 08:44:41 AM
Is it legal in CA to split the outside of a lane...i.e. the shoulders? This seems like it would be safer; minimizing the lane changeing risk.
Think of the debris on the sides of the roads-it's safer in between the cars.
Also, lane splitting keeps your air cooled bike from getting too hot from sitting in traffic.
Quote from: pwndrew on July 30, 2008, 08:59:45 AM
I live in Atlanta as well and lane split when I have to. You have to watch out for the crazies though. I had a guy bump me when I got in front of him at a traffic light, like a little tap while I was sitting there waiting for the light to change. When I turned to look at him he gave me a big shit eating grin. I followed him to B&H camera and when he got out of his car I punched him square in his teeth. I nearly got arrested but the guy did not press charges.
LOL - good ol ATL!
My companies HQ's are there so I travel there often...most bikers I have seen split lanes.
Quote from: ducpenguin on July 30, 2008, 08:44:41 AM
Is it legal in CA to split the outside of a lane...i.e. the shoulders? This seems like it would be safer; minimizing the lane changeing risk.
Technically it's called "lane sharing" in the books so you're supposed to be in the same lane as the cars. Riding on the shoulder will get you a ticket if there's a cop around. Also, you can't ride between 2 double yellow lanes (between carpool and fast lane) legally even though that is one of the safer and most common places to split. There are a lot of little rules that you should follow to split "legally" but they make it a bit more difficult and sometimes dangerous.
The main reason most people do it is to save time. I had a 55 mile commute over one summer and splitting cut my time from 2.5-4 hours down to about 1.5 hours. You definitely have to be on your game and very aware of your surroundings. After you do it for a while you get used to spotting the people that are going to try and pin you or jump the double yellow.
Quote from: pwndrew on July 30, 2008, 08:59:45 AM
I live in Atlanta as well and lane split when I have to. You have to watch out for the crazies though. I had a guy bump me when I got in front of him at a traffic light, like a little tap while I was sitting there waiting for the light to change. When I turned to look at him he gave me a big shit eating grin. I followed him to B&H camera and when he got out of his car I punched him square in his teeth. I nearly got arrested but the guy did not press charges.
that is awesome, the guy deserved and he knew it that is why he didn't press charges... should have beat teh crap out of him in front of his kids and broken his car key in the door and took his license and said "don't do that again, i know you you don't know me." [laugh]
What are the regs on lane splitting in CA? I have heard traffic can only be going a certain speed and you can only go a certain speed faster... Just a random thought I was having...
Quote from: mossimo on July 30, 2008, 03:09:46 PM
What are the regs on lane splitting in CA? I have heard traffic can only be going a certain speed and you can only go a certain speed faster... Just a random thought I was having...
these guys have good info:
http://laneshare.org/ca.htm
Oh yeah, to answer the topic name, one reason I split is to help keep the bike cool. Air cooled bikes aren't fun in stopped traffic. I don't know if they're related but I had a voltage regulator go kaput on me right after I hit stop and go traffic. I don't doubt that the voltage regulator would have died eventually anyway but sitting in stopped traffic didn't help either. The thing got hot enough to melt wires and there was smoke everywhere. It scared the heck outa me.
Quote from: mossimo on July 30, 2008, 03:09:46 PM
What are the regs on lane splitting in CA? I have heard traffic can only be going a certain speed and you can only go a certain speed faster... Just a random thought I was having...
Here's your answer, written by a police officer and discussed in great detail:
http://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154980
And by the way, it also helps keep my water cooled bikes from overheating.
i lane split here in dallas... for the main reason of it gets so damn hot. i dont ever ride without my jacket and gloves on and even with the mesh jacket i burn up in traffic.
you do really have to be careful though cause ppl are assholes.... i was splitting one day and a guy opened his door so i stopped thinking he was just throwing something out but then he leaned out and yelled back at me asking "can i help you?" i just nodded at him then he shut his door so i started going again and as i got up to his car he threw his door open again trying to hit me. i easily went around the door and slammed it back shut for him.
ppl can be pricks. watch out for yourself.
A. It's just a great time saver.
B. What's the point of riding a bike if you're going to be stuck in traffic with all the cages?
C. I don't want to be the meat in the sandwich when the car behind me rear-ends the car in front of me.
D. I don't do it at high speed, and you do have to keep your eyes out for sudden lane changers no matter what the conditions.
E. Shouldn't we be rewarded such perks for using more efficient, space saving vehicles?
F. There are inherent dangers in all motorcycle riding, but we choose to do it and manage those risks as best we can.
Let the cars stack up in an endless line of sweat and exasperation; I'll be more than happy to be on my merry way by slicing up to the front of the line and heading on to the next great road!
To avoid this:
(http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/super_superbike_tail_edit.JPG)
(http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/thumbs/joses_car_edit.JPG)
as stated by someone above, I do it for commuting and for getting up to the front at stop lights.
I used to have a 22 mile commute to work that took about 45 mins by car (morning), longer if there was an accident or something. Takes about 20-25 on the bike if I split the slow sections. Going home was usually an hour or longer in the car, 30-35 mins on the bike.
It improved by quality of life and I had a much better attitude when I got home.
Now I only go 3 miles to work all on surface streets so no place to split unless there's a wreck or something at a light.
Andy
Aside from all the other reasons mentioned I split for a safety thing. I have about 8 miles of surface streets between me and the freeway. So you split up to the front at a stop light, take off faster than the cars and for a while you have a cushion of cars in front of you and car's in back of you, but no cars near you. [moto]
I ride the carpool lane and rarely need to split. I do see guys splitting at 90+ down the double yellow and think they are nuts, but at least they give me the salute as they pass by...
Quote from: Dents on July 29, 2008, 06:32:32 PM
I've been apart of the last board since the 2000 but just not too active on this one and have heard many references to the safetieness of lane splitting. I know its only legal in California but I don't understand its rational. It seems like with the rapid lane changes people do in their cars it seems more dangerous. Can someone explain this style of riding?
because lane splitting means bypassing traffic. obviously, you won't want to split lanes in 70 mph traffic but in slow traffic when cars are lined up next to each other its hard for them to switch. additionally, getting rear ended while nestled between two cars is damn near impossible. it all takes good judgment. i wouldnt even commute on my bike if it was illegal.
Lanesplitting is just a simple risk/ gain problem. If traffic is stopped splitting at any speed helps you get to your destination infinitely faster. Even splitting 30 mph traffic at 35 mph gets you to your destination about 15% faster. On a 30 minute commute that's only about 5 minutes but if you split 5mph faster you'll get there 10 minutes faster. Cutting a 30 min. commute into a 20 min. commute is pretty useful. The question is, 10 minutes of your time worth the risk?
I think the risk is pretty minimal. You watch out for the open spots (because they will be filled) , and expect everyone to not see you. My main reason for splitting? Time. Riding the bike to work cuts my commute in half. In the morning (0430) the 13 miles is covered in about 12-14 minutes. At 6PM in rush hour traffic it only takes me another 4 minutes or so.
Quote from: derby on July 29, 2008, 06:36:51 PM
simple: cars don't rapidly change lanes in damn-near-stopped, bumper-to-bumper traffic.
Yes, exactly
Quote from: hbliam on August 13, 2008, 10:09:32 PM
I think the risk is pretty minimal. You watch out for the open spots (because they will be filled) , and expect everyone to not see you. My main reason for splitting? Time. Riding the bike to work cuts my commute in half. In the morning (0430) the 13 miles is covered in about 12-14 minutes. At 6PM in rush hour traffic it only takes me another 4 minutes or so.
+1, I don't ride to work for pleasure. I need to make up time... and as mentioned previously, most cagers are dicks
Lane Splitting is Illegal.
Lane Sharing is Legal.
If you ever get pulled over the semantics are very important in that situation.
Keep cool
Keep the bike cool
Save time
Get through traffic
Quote from: TCK! on August 14, 2008, 05:52:32 AM
Lane Splitting is Illegal.
Lane Sharing is Legal.
If you ever get pulled over the semantics are very important in that situation.
Lane splitting is not illegal. Neither is lane sharing.
Quote from: hbliam on August 14, 2008, 02:03:48 PM
Lane splitting is not illegal. Neither is lane sharing.
You are wrong: http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154980
Quote from: TCK! on August 14, 2008, 02:33:05 PM
You are wrong: http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=154980
No, actually I'm not. Because they are the same thing. And your link doesn't change things. Your linked "guru" even quotes the CHP:
"Is lane-sharing legal?
Here's the text (verbatim) from the CHP's site: "
Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible under California law but must done in a safe and prudent manner." The text used to also include "The motorcycle should be traveling no more than 10 mph faster than surrounding traffic (without exceeding the speed limit) and not come close enough to that traffic to cause a collision." but has since been removed. Perhaps they wanted to give cops more latitude to interpret what they thought was safe so they removed it.
Lane sharing on surface streets is probably not addressed in city or county laws so I would do this with caution, as individual cops will decide whether or not they like what they see. As with most prudent riders, I share lanes as necessary on surface streets if I don't see any cops, but I stop immediately if I spot one.
You can also find more on
lane-splitting in the DMV Motorcycle handbook (see page 20 in the current handbook). "
His plea to not call it "splitting" is his opinion and doesn't make it illegal.
Quote from: hbliam on August 14, 2008, 03:07:03 PM
No, actually I'm not. Because they are the same thing. And your link doesn't change things. Your linked "guru" even quotes the CHP:
"Is lane-sharing legal?
Here's the text (verbatim) from the CHP's site: "Lane splitting by motorcycles is permissible under California law but must done in a safe and prudent manner." The text used to also include "The motorcycle should be traveling no more than 10 mph faster than surrounding traffic (without exceeding the speed limit) and not come close enough to that traffic to cause a collision." but has since been removed. Perhaps they wanted to give cops more latitude to interpret what they thought was safe so they removed it.
Lane sharing on surface streets is probably not addressed in city or county laws so I would do this with caution, as individual cops will decide whether or not they like what they see. As with most prudent riders, I share lanes as necessary on surface streets if I don't see any cops, but I stop immediately if I spot one.
You can also find more on lane-splitting in the DMV Motorcycle handbook (see page 20 in the current handbook). "
His plea to not call it "splitting" is his opinion and doesn't make it illegal.
Feel free to read the rest of the thread:
QuoteThere is no specific law prohibiting lanesharing. There is a ton of info about lanesharing (which people persist in calling splitting for some reason), in this thread. I suggest you do read the whole thread.
As an asside, "splitting" suggests or implies the act of straddling, which is specifically prohibited in 21658(a) CVC. My plea is that those that want to keep it legal, please call it ââ,¬Å"lanesharringââ,¬Â and consistently refer to it as such. The connotation of ââ,¬Å"sharingââ,¬Â is much more positive and is clearly a more accurate portrayal of the legal (ie.. not outlawed, yet) act many law-abiding CA motorcyclist do safely, on a regular basis. Who wants to be the lawmaker that outlawed ââ,¬Å"sharingââ,¬Â in CA?
If you are against it, feel free to call it splitting
If you two are going to quote BARF posts, you should at least use the correct smily when you're pointing out that the other is wrong: (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/scottrnelson/SM/twofinger.gif)
Quote from: ScottRNelson on August 14, 2008, 03:28:13 PM
If you two are going to quote BARF posts, you should at least use the correct smily when you're pointing out that the other is wrong: (http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c67/scottrnelson/SM/twofinger.gif)
haha :D Good call Scott
I just think you've got to pick and choose your battles and why make it more difficult for yourself when it's easy to be cautious and use the phrase sharing instead of splitting. Some police/judges/public are going to get a major hard-on when you use the phrase splitting might as well avoid the pre-conceived perception of bad lane splitting.
Same reason why I still have a "beer tray", reflectors and and 100% legal with any modifications I perform on my bike. I just don't want bring down any more heat then i already have.
Quote from: TCK! on August 14, 2008, 05:52:32 AM
Lane Splitting is Illegal.
Lane Sharing is Legal.
If you ever get pulled over the semantics are very important in that situation.
I thought illegality was based on what one was doing, not what one called it.
Quote from: someguy on August 14, 2008, 03:40:36 PM
I thought illegality was based on what one was doing, not what one called it.
I wish, unless the judge witnesses your act I think it's all about how you present your case at that point.
Quote from: someguy on August 14, 2008, 03:40:36 PM
I thought illegality was based on what one was doing, not what one called it.
Exactly. Just because one guy up in NoCal thinks the word "splitting" may be close to straddling, doesn't make the act illegal. His theory about 21658(a) is nothing more then his opinion. If HE pulls you over you might want to say sharing. Any other cop/person knows they are the same thing.
Quote from: hbliam on August 14, 2008, 03:47:03 PM
Exactly. Just because one guy up in NoCal thinks the word "splitting" may be close to straddling, doesn't make the act illegal. His theory about 21658(a) is nothing more then his opinion. If HE pulls you over you might want to say sharing. Any other cop/person knows they are the same thing.
Well him and the HUNDREDS of other NoRCal cops on BARF that agree with him. You better stay it SoCal sounds more relaxed :D [leo]
Quote from: TCK! on August 14, 2008, 03:49:23 PM
Well him and the HUNDREDS of other NoRCal cops on BARF that agree with him. You better stay it SoCal sounds more relaxed :D [leo]
I'm not trying to argue with you TCK (I'm failing I guess). The thread has 97 posts. 16 of them by the OP. I wouldn't say HUNDREDS agree with him. It's just his opinion. Which does not make it illegal, and as such your original post that people need to articulate the act as sharing and not splitting is flat out, 100%, inaccurate. If it makes you feel warm and IZ_ and cuts down the fog up there to call it sharing, have at it. :)
Quote from: hbliam on August 14, 2008, 04:06:05 PM
I'm not trying to argue with you TCK (I'm failing I guess). The thread has 97 posts. 16 of them by the OP. I wouldn't say HUNDREDS agree with him. It's just his opinion. Which does not make it illegal, and as such your original post that people need to articulate the act as sharing and not splitting is flat out, 100%, inaccurate. If it makes you feel warm and IZ_ and cuts down the fog up there to call it sharing, have at it. :)
Hey doesn't matter to me if you guys want to risk getting the "one" PO that doesn't like that term, I don't even ride on the street anymore, not at least until winter. Have fun, ride safe.
Now that I am here in Okinawa, Japan we can lane split....hell we even have the right and are encouraged to ride down the left side breakdown lane. Driving on the opposite side of the road is taking some getting used to as well as switched turn signals/windshield wipers. On a motorcycle we almost have the right of way more than motor vehicles do here. Traffic is nuts here though...
it was explained to me that ....
we have a lot of CHiP's on cycles here and its not uncommon for them to be on air cooled bikes. so to keep the bikes cool in trafic they need to maintain a speed of at least 25mph. and California being as liberal as it is figures if its legal for cops. then its legal for everyone. and if you have ever seen traffic in California you will understand how gnarly it can get. think miles, and miles, and miles of 3-4 lane traffic at a dead stop.