For those considering changing their own tires, I thought I’d provide some feedback on using the Harbor Freight “portable†(not) tire changer and HF motorcycle adapter. I used the marc parnes static balancer to balance the tires (very reasonable and well made).
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34542 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=34542)
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42927 (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=42927)
http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm (http://www.marcparnes.com/Ducati_Motorcycle_Wheel_Balancer.htm)
My goal was to save money on tires over the long term and avoid patronizing the local dealers. This isn’t for everyone and if you don’t own more than one bike or burn through a couple of pair of tires every 12 to 18 months it may not be worth it. Changing tires is not hard, but until you learn a few tricks it can be a wrestling match. There is also risk of dinging up your rims, but at least they’re your dings. I always say a motorcycle doesn’t have a soul until you’ve wrenched it, bled on it, dinged it… Changing tires can accomplish all three very quickly.
The economic case:
The HF gear was $105.97 including shipping (check for sales)
Balancer was also $105.00 including shipping
Strip of weights: $5
Bag of leather scraps from a local crafts store: $3
Initial tools: $218.97
Suggestions:
Look into rim savers and good tire lubricant. A good set of tire irons (spoons) may be better than the tire bar provided by HF. But if you are using spoons, I’ve found that two are not enough â€" get three of four. I was bent on saving money so I didn’t use any of these items.
Tires:
I bought the Diablo Corsa IIIs front and rear
Rear: $167 shipped
Front: $133 shipped
Total $300.00 â€" nice round #
My total expenses: $518.97
Local it would have cost:
Rear $195
Front $155
Total $350
Mounting per tire (if I pulled wheels) $35x2=$70
Shop equipment fee $10.0
Tire fee $5.00 per tire x2 = $10
Tax $21
Total = $461.00
So I’m down just $58 after one set of tires.
I know pictures would help, but I’m lazy and someone else has already made an excellent website with great tips:
http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/tirechange (http://www.pbase.com/fredharmon/tirechange)
HF recommends bolting the base to a cement floor. I’m not opposed to drilling holes in my garage floor, but drilling concrete is harder than mounting a tire and the right tools would have added to the expense. Instead I cut up a 2â€x6†plank I had lying around into three 4’ sections and bolted one each to the center, right and left supports. I counter sank some 4†bolts so it would sit flat on the floor. This worked great, the stand was very stable throughout and it’s easy to break down and store. A thick a piece of plywood (4’x4’) or bolting it the floor will also work.
A few things to think about:
1) You don’t have to ding up your rims, take it slow and think each step of the way.
2) It’s all about slack in the tire, while removing or installing keep the tire in the center of the rim. This goes for the top and bottom, the tire bead will try to reset to the outer rim.
3) Changing a tire should not be hard, if you’re fighting it you’re doing it wrong â€" step back and think.
Have some scraps of wood to help keep the tire in the center of the rim. I cut 6 wedge shaped pieces from another 2â€x6†that were 1-1.5†at the thickest part. I cut another 10 pieces (more than needed) at varying widths from 1-3â€. The 2x6 size is probably better than a 2x4, but a 2x4 should work.
The tire machine has a bead breaker that works well. Lay down an old mat or scrap of rug on the base of the machine to avoid scratching your rim. Also lay a think cloth or towel across the wheel to protect the rim from the bead breaker. Watch where the breaker comes down and use your weight to press down on the lever, the bead should break easily.
With the bead broken insert a few pieces of wood between the tire and rim to prevent the bead from reseating. Do this on both sides of the wheel.
Seat the wheel in the HF wheel chocks. I used thin scraps of suede leather over the chocks and a wire tie to secure them. A cut up piece of rubber glove should also work and may have better grip (although suede was good). You can also buy rim protectors that are inexpensive, not sure if these are too thick for the chocks. It’s a little tricky the first time you do it, just make sure that the chocks mate to the rim securely. If the material you use to protect the rim is too thick the chocks won’t grip the rim properly. If the rim turns you’re going to have problems and will likely scratch it. Take your time and mount it right!
Warning, the hf tire bar/iron will scratch anything it comes in contact with - protect your rims. One side is shaped like a knife blade and this is used to remove the tire. On the other side is a thick hook, this is used primarily to put the new tire on.
I used a couple of layers of electrical tape on the knife side â€" keep and eye on it so you don’t wear through and hit metal. If you have other ideas that work please post, this is critical for the welfare of your rims.
For the hook side I cut the handle off a gallon jug of Tropicana OJ. The top part that meets the OJ jug has a 90 deg bend that fits tightly over the hook. Make sure you trim the excess. A milk jug handle is too narrow. This is better than electrical tape!
Note: The HF tool is not great, next time I’m going to buy a set of tire irons (spoons). This is what we used to use to change motorcycle tires and I think they may be easier to use and easier to protect the rim. The HF tool encourages brute force and tire spoons encourage proper technique. Someone other there makes a bar called a “MoJo†that is supposed to be good, but I didn’t want to spend another $100.
Another note: It’s been suggested to set the wheel and tire in the sun to make it more pliable. It can’t hurt, but I don’t think it adds much benefit. I was working in a garage and the tire cooled down long before the heavy work started.
And yet another note: Lubricant is important. It’s suggested to use a silicon lubricant spray; I think there is one made for specifically for tire work. I used WD40 and only when pulling the final bead over the rim. If you’re fighting it you’re doing it wrong and all of the lubricant in the world isn’t going to help.
Getting the tire off is easy. Check that the wood blocks in the bottom of the wheel have the tire pushed towards the center of the rim and the bead has not reset â€" bottom slack is as important as the top. Use the wedges in the top around ¾ of the rim to keep the top part of the tire in the center of the rim. The wedge shaped pieces are helpful to work into places where the bead has reset. Use the knife edge of the tool to pull a portion of the tire over the rim and rotate around, using the center bar of the HF motorcycle adapter as a leverage point.
Any time it gets tight, work the tire around the rim to assure its’ providing adequate slack. Don’t fight with the tire iron bar, concentrate your effort on the tire positioning using muscle and the wood blocks. It’s all about tire slack, keep working the tire to the center of the rim by wiggling, pushing, beating (dead blow hammer) the tire into submission. I can’t emphasis this enough, if you fight with the tire iron you’re going to tear up your rim and you’re going to lose the fight. Getting the tire off should be fairly easy.
Now that you have the tire off, remove any weights from the rim and find the heavy point using a static balancer. I’m not going to cover details, its’ very easy to use and Marc’s website has complete instructions. I do want mention that a static balancer is a reliable and accurate method for balancing a wheel.
Mounting the tire is reverse of the steps mentioned above. This is where heavy lubricant will help break the friction between the rim and the tire. But the proper use of the wood blocks and tire position is more important. Use the protected (by oj handle) hooked part of bar on the rim with the tabbed side sticking up. Rotate around using the motorcycle adapter center bar as the leverage point. Once the bottom half of the tire is mounted (should be very easy), the bead will try to set â€" keep the tire in the middle of the rim.
When you’re mounting the top (final?) half of the tire you’ll get to last 12 inches or so and the tire will be hanging 6†over the rim. At this point you’ll say there is nfw you’re going to wrench this last part of the tire over rim - and you are absolutely right. This is the point where you have to really work the tire to gain slack. Use the wood blocks, check bottom and top repeatedly. Feel around with your finger and you’ll notice that at points the tire isn’t touching the rim all of the way or it isn’t centered. Take it slow - gain an inch, work the tire - wrestle the tire and not the bar. If you have to back off to reposition the tire, do it! You don’t need a cheater bar or extra leverage; you need to work the tire. Once you’ve worked enough slack the tire should very easily pop over the rim.
I know I’m beating a dead horse with the slack thing, but this is the key to mounting a tire. It’s the only way you’ll get the tire on the rim.
Once you have the tire on the rim, balance, mount and ride!
I want to add a special thanks to www.fjrforum.com. Many on that board change their own tires. I know a few do it here, but it's not discussed often enough. FJRFORUM has an excellent community and of course the 08 FJR1300 is the best ST available today! But that’s another thread on another forum….
I have both those, including the balancer. Personnaly, it's good for holding the wheel in place while I spoon the tires on and off. the rest is junk. The bead breaker is just good enough for motorcycle tires. It will bend if you try doing a car tire with it. I've probably done 10 sets of tires with this set up.
Quoteit's good for holding the wheel in place while I spoon the tires on and off
Agreed, HF is known for crap. Probably the biggest benefit of the HF is that the height is right so you're not bent over working on the tire. If you're creative there are other ways of doing it like using a milk crate and spoons. We used to just wrestle the tires on the ground, but in those days we didn't care about the rims and the tires were easier to mount.
I have two HF tire changers - one is in NYC, at my sister's place, and includes the motorcycle tire attachment.
The second is here in Arvada, CO with me.
Honestly, you don't need the motorcycle tire attachment. Practically worthless is my opinion.
Also, you should not use the big iron breaker bar for anything other than breaking the bead.
If you try to use it on your tires, you will scratch the heck out of them.
2-4 Motion-Pro tire irons that are 11" long are all you need.
In the beginning, you might need 4 tire irons, because you just aren't skilled enough to work with less.
As you get more experienced, you can actually work your way down to just one spoon, depending on the tire you are installing.
I also recommend removing the brake rotors from the rims whenever you are changing the tire.
They are very expensive to replace if you warp one, so why not take the extra 5 minutes?
BC.
My dealer was going to charge another $120 for removing and re-installing the wheels on the bike, so, unless you were going to take the wheels off yourself, you actually saved money.
Would a bead breaker such as this work better than the HF setup?
http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product?storeId=10101&Pr=p_Product.CATENTRY_ID%3A2004021&productId=2004021&catalogId=10101
JCwhitney generally sells decent stuff.
I don't know how well the JC Whitney one works, but it's only a bead breaker. The HF one is also a wheel vice that works decently well. I've had no problems breaking the bead on full sized tires with it, and as said above the MC attachment is useless.
Note to all: I'm not trying to sell HF, if you have a lift, work bench, don't mind the floor, have some ingenuity - you don't need the HF. If you're just starting out the advice in this thread applies to any tire change, but I bought and use the HF so its relevent to the post. If you've done it 100 times and have some additional advice, this would be a good thread to post your tips.
Quote from: Bladecutter on August 02, 2008, 03:56:22 PM
Honestly, you don't need the motorcycle tire attachment. Practically worthless is my opinion.
Also, you should not use the big iron breaker bar for anything other than breaking the bead.
If you try to use it on your tires, you will scratch the heck out of them.
2-4 Motion-Pro tire irons that are 11" long are all you need.
In the beginning, you might need 4 tire irons, because you just aren't skilled enough to work with less.
As you get more experienced, you can actually work your way down to just one spoon, depending on the tire you are installing.
BC.
The motorcycle adapter is the only reason to consider the HF. The vice works great and the combination of the base and mc attachment get you off the floor. $100 is a small price to pay to have a decent tire stand to work on. But you can change a tire on the floor with tire irons and it shouldn't be any more difficult - I mentioned that in the original thread. I'm too old to work on the floor and I don't have a bench or lift.
Not sure why anyone would use the HF breaker bar to break the bead, that's not what the bar is used for. The HF bead breaking attachment works fine, it's effortless and is by far the easies part of the entire job. I also mentioned that irons are probably better than the HF tire bar, but if you take precautions and don't fight it the bar works fine and you won't sratch up your rims.
QuoteWould a bead breaker such as this work better than the HF setup?
He Man, that looks like a great bead breaker, but the HF bead breaker works fine. If you're building your tool chest and want the top of the line, definitly consider the JCW. There are also much better manual tire machines out there that are below $500, but my goal was to take the cost out of replacing tires.
IMO the No-Mar changer is the only way to go. Period.
100% scratch-proof, easy and quick to use (once you get the technique down). Its not all that cheap but well worth the money. Honestly once your riding buddies find out you can change a tire, you'll be using it a good bit and if you charge a few bucks you can even make some of your money back without really working too hard. Cost about $800 including pretty much everything needed IIRC.
I like this post.
Book Marked
Thanx
I bought the JCW bead breaker and it works well - $50 I think. I use the marc parnes balancer too, which works very well.
You can definitely bend/warp the rotor carriers. Ass me how I know. I have nice new brakes now though.
One thing I have seen used is a 22 gal grease drum with split heater hose around the rim of the can/drum to protect the wheel spokes - the rotors now are down in the drum and can't be damaged. Now, tire irons and some determination are all that's needed.
I have since quit changing my own tires though. My local Yamaha/KTM/Kaw/Victory etc.etc. shop mounts tires with a "magic machine" for $20 and has been selling the tires to me as cheaply as I can buy them on line without shipping. I've been going through 5 rears and maybe almost three fronts per year, so they are giving me a good deal. I like the idea of supporting a local shop if I can.
LA
$20 is a good price. Ive asked around here, and its anywhere from 45 to 65 bucks per a tire. that doesnt include balacning with the $45 shop.
I change my own the "old fashion" way. I have used DynaBeads for balancing with great results:
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/motorcycle.htm
1oz for the front tire, 2oz for the back tire. You can also re-use them, if you are careful to collect them all when you take the old tire off.
QuoteI have since quit changing my own tires though. My local Yamaha/KTM/Kaw/Victory etc.etc. shop mounts tires with a "magic machine" for $20 and has been selling the tires to me as cheaply as I can buy them on line without shipping. I've been going through 5 rears and maybe almost three fronts per year, so they are giving me a good deal. I like the idea of supporting a local shop if I can.
That's just good business, they treat you decent and put a little care into the quality of the workmanship and they win customer loyalty. I can't find that shop around here, I always feel like I'm being raped when I talk to the local dealers. I don't mind paying higher than internet pricing for the tires, but when they want another $110+ to mount two tires... And while they're grin make the beast with two backsing me with their pricing I'm staring at a $40 battery tender on the shelf marked up to $75 [bang].
Nice write-up, bigtime. I have the same set-up as everyone else, I just added a set of Mojo blocks and a Mojo Lever to my tire change complement:
(http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/mojoweb_files/image002.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/mojoweb_files/image004.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/Mojolever_Instructions.pdf
Scratched rims are a thing of the past.
I also have the HF changer with motorcycle adapter and have changed around 20 or more tires with it since last August. I've even changed a few tires for friends.
I use the stock setup with three motoboss tire irons (spoons) and two rim savers. I also use electrical tape on the bar to prevent scratching it when takign the tires off. The only problem I seem to have is with the last bead. I can get it to about the last 8"-14" of bead and then I have to remove the HF bar and use the tire irons to finish mounting the second tire bead. I think most of this is due to not having the unit secured. Also, my wife helps me with stabilizing the unit and pushing the bead down for more clearance. For tire lube, I use either liquid dishwashing detergent or shampoo. If I would have know I was going to be changing this many tires and as often, I would have probably bought the No-Mar. Maybe next year I'll "upgrade".
Quote from: dlearl476 on August 04, 2008, 10:58:45 AM
Nice write-up, bigtime. I have the same set-up as everyone else, I just added a set of Mojo blocks and a Mojo Lever to my tire change complement:
(http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/mojoweb_files/image002.jpg)(http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/mojoweb_files/image004.jpg)
http://home.comcast.net/~prestondrake/Mojolever_Instructions.pdf
Scratched rims are a thing of the past.
That's the Mojo! How durable is that thing?
QuoteI use the stock setup with three motoboss tire irons (spoons) and two rim savers. I also use electrical tape on the bar to prevent scratching it when takign the tires off. The only problem I seem to have is with the last bead. I can get it to about the last 8"-14" of bead and then I have to remove the HF bar and use the tire irons to finish mounting the second tire bead.
Desmo Demon,
Next time you change a tire and you're working that last section on the top of the tire, take your time and work the top and botton of the tire a little more. Everytime it starts to get tight work the tire towards the center of the rim. Get your fingers in there and feel where the tire is sitting on the rim, wiggle, wack with a dead blow hammer. Even back off a little and then back on, working it an inch at time. It doesn't take a lot of time or effort to pull the extra slack, you just need pay attention to what the tire is doing all the way around the rim...top/bottom... You'll be surprised at how quickly you can get that last 12" to flip right over.
+1 on the No Mar. I've had the "classic" model for a year or so. Mounted 20 plus moto tires and done some car/truck tires. Paid for itself already plus I don't have to drive an hour to and from the shop, sit and wait etc. Changed a front on a Sportster last weekend, took less than a hour start to finish. The key to mounting like said before is to keep the bead of the tire in the relief of the wheel and to use plenty of lube. When it gets tight, back up the bar add some lube. No mar has videos on their website showing some techniques and how to use the machine. It is expensive, it does work as advertised once you get the hang off it.
Quote from: bigtime on August 05, 2008, 04:44:34 PM
Even back off a little and then back on, working it an inch at time. It doesn't take a lot of time or effort to pull the extra slack, you just need pay attention to what the tire is doing all the way around the rim...top/bottom... You'll be surprised at how quickly you can get that last 12" to flip right over.
I always make sure that the bead on the opposite side that I'm working on is in the middle of the rim (the smallest diameter section of the rim) to get enough slack, but I think the largest issue we have is that the changer is not secured and we use it on the living room carpet. The whole unit starts to turn with two of us trying to hold it in place and me trying to use the bar. That last small section of the bead usually takes about 10-30 seconds to pop over the lip of the rim with tire irons. I have had one tire go on completely with the HF bar without any problems, but I want to say it was one that I had patched and had a very small amount of tread left, so the tire was really flexible.
Quote from: bigtime on August 05, 2008, 04:44:34 PM
That's the Mojo! How durable is that thing?
I'll let you know when I get to use it. I have a set of Alpina Asystem wires waiting for their Michelins sitting in the garage, I'm just waiting to get the front adapted before I mount them.
I did buy them based on recommendations from friends who swear by them and do enough tires to now if they're bunk or not.
Quote
You'll be surprised at how quickly you can get that last 12" to flip right over.
+1
My trick is to use an 11" MotionPro iron velcro-ed to the upright of the HF changer. From there I use two Heyco irons that came in my 1972 BMW tool kit and work around the rim. Usually the last 12" goes in one pop, once you reach critical mass. ;D
Quote from: Desmo Demon on August 06, 2008, 04:18:50 AM
I think the largest issue we have is that the changer is not secured and we use it on the living room carpet. The whole unit starts to turn with two of us trying to hold it in place and me trying to use the bar.
Do what did. Cut a piece of 3/4" ply and drill holes the proper distance in it for the HF stand feet. Put in some T-Nuts and get bolts to match. Bolt the stand to the wood base when you're doing a tire, take it apart and it all stores flat when you're not. You'd be surprised how much more secure the stand is if you're standing on the base. I'm sorry it's burried in the garage and I'm a bit incapacitated right now, or I'd take a pic. I found after a couple of tries, if I always start at a certain point, I can get max leverage on the long side of the base and tires pretty much fly on and off now, after about 10 sets.
Quote from: dlearl476 on August 06, 2008, 12:47:23 PM
Cut a piece of 3/4" ply and drill holes the proper distance in it for the HF stand feet. Put in some T-Nuts and get bolts to match. Bolt the stand to the wood base when you're doing a tire, take it apart and it all stores flat when you're not. You'd be surprised how much more secure the stand is if you're standing on the base.
My local Lowe's has 4'x4' sections of 3/4" plywood that are perfect for the base. I thought the price was a little high (something like $25-$30) and I was being cheap. My 2"x6" planks work great, but if I didn't have the plank sitting around I'd have gone the plywood route. It's really easy to break down and store.
Quote from: bigtime on August 06, 2008, 01:08:17 PM
My local Lowe's has 4'x4' sections of 3/4" plywood that are perfect for the base. I thought the price was a little high (something like $25-$30) and I was being cheap.
You're right, for that price, you could almost buy a full sheet AND a skill saw. ;D
Quote from: dlearl476 on August 06, 2008, 12:47:23 PM
Do what did. Cut a piece of 3/4" ply and drill holes the proper distance in it for the HF stand feet. Put in some T-Nuts and get bolts to match. Bolt the stand to the wood base when you're doing a tire, take it apart and it all stores flat when you're not.
I have thought about something like that, or just a couple of 2x4 boards to go through the legs. I just haven't done it, yet.....and it would be something else to try to keep up with. You would absolutely HATE to see the lower 1/3 of my house.....I don't have a garage, so all eight bikes and enough parts to build another are shoved into the house.
Quote from: Desmo Demon on August 07, 2008, 09:02:36 AM
I have thought about something like that, or just a couple of 2x4 boards to go through the legs. I just haven't done it, yet.....and it would be something else to try to keep up with.
One of the pluses of my set-up is that you can actually stand on the platform which, IMO, is nearly as stable as having the stand Hilti-ed to the floor. A couple of longer planks would make it more stable, but with the platform, even putting a foot on allows for incredible working leverage. Then agan, the more I do it, the less "incredible leverage" the job really seems to require. :P
QuoteYou would absolutely HATE to see the lower 1/3 of my house.....I don't have a garage, so all eight bikes and enough parts to build another are shoved into the house.
Tell me about it, I have one of these "in process" on a coffee table in my living room. My GF doesn't seem to understand that working on it is the same as reading a book or watching TV, so why not in the comfort of my living room? ;D
(http://crs-america.smugmug.com/photos/168585275_MQR3S-M.jpg)
Quote from: dlearl476 on August 07, 2008, 02:10:36 PM
Tell me about it, I have one of these "in process" on a coffee table in my living room.
This *used* to be my living room (you can see the stack of spare tires in the background)...
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d32/Kramer_Krazy/bike_room_1b.jpg)
This is the room I remodeled into my "Bike Room"...
(http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d32/Kramer_Krazy/bike_room_1a.jpg)