05 S2R 800
I think I have a potentially serious problem - Getting a weird popping noise from the back wheel when the bike is moving. At first I thought it was the chain but I lathered it up with grease and its still popping. I'm getting worried that it might be some kind of bearing inside the eccentric hub.BTW - my cush drives are fine nothing backed out as some people have experienced. I took a quick check and they look fine.
To be sure, I want to disconnect the chain from the rear sprocket and roll the bike around. If it still pops, its either something inside the tire or the hub.
What I'm looking for confirmation on a couple of questions:
1) Is there enough room to wiggle the chain off the rear sprocketin such a way that I dont have to break a link or remove the chain completely to perform this test.
2) I'm assuming there is some bearing mechanism inside the eccentric but I dont know anything about the internals. Someone provide some input. The service manual only shows how to remove the eccentric, I didnt see anything on how how to take it apart.
3) Any ideas on what else could be causing the problem right now my best hope is the chain itself. But I dont want to jump to worst case scenarios but I can guarantee that the noise is coming from the back wheel. I'll try to record the sound and post it, though this will take some creativity on my part.
I would first check both the axle nuts. Left & Right side for the wheel. I just did a 520 swap and the LH nut was loose!! HOLY SHIT!! :o
Have an assistant roll the bike around while you watch and listen.
How many miles on the chain?
They can be worn out to the point that external lubrication will not help.
Does it have kinked links?
Dark red rust color coming out between the plates?
Also check for cush drive rubbers backing out and hitting the swingarm.
I'll throw a pic of the chain for all to see. Chain doesnt have too many mles on it. Maybe about 10k I've run chains to the ground before so I'm familiar with the red rush, I havent see that yet on this one. I dont feel any kinking either and its wearing pretty even, no significant loose spots.
I just want to eliminate the eccentric hub first. Then I can breathe a sigh of relief.
If it is the chain, I'll probably just run it to the ground and deal with the noise. The next chain replacement will require new sprockets anyways.
You may be able to turn the eccentric far enough to slip the chain off.
Ok, guys this is REALLY weird. I was hoping it was the chain but its NOT. I took the chain off from the rear wheel, completly eliminating it from the equation. Wheel still pops and the noise has been getting is getting louder of late.
Now here's the really weird part. If I put it up on a SSS rearstand and spin the wheel in the exact same direction, I get absolutely no popping. I dont feel any kinking or rough spots so I'm thinking that its not the bearing inside the eccentric. I also took off the plastic chain guard at the rear wheel to no avail thinking it might be the issue.
I did get a tire change of late on the rear wheel. Anyway it could be this??? I'll post a video shortly of both situations; on the ground and on the rearstand.
Hey ELL,
Has the noise changed since the last time I heard it?
This sounds like the same issue your having:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3061.msg44097#msg44097
Maybe you can following up with him/her to see what it was.
Quote from: EEL on August 17, 2008, 01:50:13 PM
Ok, guys this is REALLY weird. I was hoping it was the chain but its NOT. I took the chain off from the rear wheel, completly eliminating it from the equation. Wheel still pops and the noise has been getting is getting louder of late.
Now here's the really weird part. If I put it up on a SSS rearstand and spin the wheel in the exact same direction, I get absolutely no popping. I dont feel any kinking or rough spots so I'm thinking that its not the bearing inside the eccentric. I also took off the plastic chain guard at the rear wheel to no avail thinking it might be the issue.
I did get a tire change of late on the rear wheel. Anyway it could be this??? I'll post a video shortly of both situations; on the ground and on the rearstand.
When you rotate the rear wheel on the stand, it is turning on the bearings in the stand not the bearings within the eccentric.
Ducati state in the manual that it is forbidden to disassemble the eccentric this is probably due to the special bearings. Only sold as an assembly, it 'aint cheap. One on ebay UK for about $150.
Get the rear wheel off the ground with the suspension unloaded then spin it.
You might want to check that the rear wheel is located on the drive pins correctly, it is possible to fit it incorrectly.
Quote from: Capo on August 17, 2008, 03:05:20 PM
When you rotate the rear wheel on the stand, it is turning on the bearings in the stand not the bearings within the eccentric.
...
^That doesn't make sense.^ ???
If the wheel is turning, then the axle is turning, and the bearings in the eccentric are turning.
while pushing it around you sayd it pops ,
once it pops >stop> roll back , does it pop at the same place?
Does not pop in the same place. Its completely different every time. Sometimes it doesnt pop at all.
I think its my new tire. Thats the only thing it could be. Thats the only thing that could explain the fact that it doesnt pop when its on a rear stand. I think its because I'm loading the bearing and not the tire, hence no popping. Then when I put in on the ground and load the tire, it pops. It might be a defective bead on the tire, somehow not seating properly or something.
Dark, are per your earlier question, sounds exactly the same.
I uploaded some videos on my server (See Link Below). One with sidestand and 2 with the popping noise. I'm thinking its the tire right now..
Let me know what you guys think
Videos of Popping Noise (http://parekhjifamily.homeserver.com/Ducati_Videos/)
sounds almost like someting is fliking the tire
(maybe a ripping belt inside the tire? ???)
ELL,
Can you take it back to where the tires were installed. Just tell them it started AFTER THEY worked on the bike. If it's the tire, then go for the warranty. If not, then you'll know it not the tire. Depending on the shop, they might not charge you any $$$.
Also, since I recall you changing the rear caliper, have someone hold the caliper to ensure it/or the bracket is not the source of the sound.
Next step would be to take shit apart until it stops (i.e., sprocket carrier). Then you can make an educated guess that the last part removed was the cause of the noise.
I was going to add to also use an automotive stethoscope and try to isolate the sound. I'm hearing a thump and a click. The stethoscope could isolate if the tire is in question or possibly another sound just coming thru the tire. Weird!
Quote from: DarkStaR on August 17, 2008, 03:11:44 PM
^That doesn't make sense.^ ???
If the wheel is turning, then the axle is turning, and the bearings in the eccentric are turning.
Put your bike on the stand and look at while you rotate the wheel.
Thats why the SSS stands have bearings in them
Quote from: Capo on August 18, 2008, 03:30:12 AM
Put your bike on the stand and look at while you rotate the wheel.
Thats why the SSS stands have bearings in them
That's true, but the hub is still loaded, because the weight of the bike is still supported by the swingarm. The rear stand only supports the wheel, not the swingarm.
Theres one surefire way to find out. Anyone local to the bay area got a 5 spoke marchesini sitting around that I could swap for a minute to test out my theory?
Quote from: Capo on August 18, 2008, 03:30:12 AM
Put your bike on the stand and look at while you rotate the wheel.
Thats why the SSS stands have bearings in them
[laugh] I give up. [laugh]
Capo
Dark is right, I think you are misunderstanding his point. If you put a bike on a SSS rearstand you're spinning the axle AND the bearing on the SSS stand. If you need proof, download my video (link in this post) of my bike on a sss reastand (where it doesnt pop) and you will see that the nut holding the sprocket AND the sprocket itself are spinning. If that is the case the axle and bearings inside the eccentric are spinning as well since the sprocket is directly tied into the wheel. If it wasnt, our bikes would sit in place and never move when we get on the gas.
Either way, the visual proof is on the video. Please take this as fact as othat we can end this side discussion.
The shop that installed the tire is closed today, hopefully I can give them a call tomorrow and get this issue resolved this week. I'll push to get a new tire if its defective.
Again, if anyone has an S2R with a bald tire that they are planning to take off anyways to replace, I'd love to stop by and borrow your rim for a quick garage test. That would settle this once and for all.
I don't know if this could be the problem or not but it might be worth a look.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3915.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3915.0)
You did say the wheel was off for tire replacement and this mounting error is easy enough to make. I suppose the "popping" noise could be the locating pins binding on the wheel as they try and seat into the casting spaces.
Good luck. Whatever it is it just sounds wrong!
Quote from: EEL on August 18, 2008, 09:35:19 AM
Capo
Dark is right, I think you are misunderstanding his point. If you put a bike on a SSS rearstand you're spinning the axle AND the bearing on the SSS stand. If you need proof, download my video (link in this post) of my bike on a sss reastand (where it doesnt pop) and you will see that the nut holding the sprocket AND the sprocket itself are spinning. If that is the case the axle and bearings inside the eccentric are spinning as well since the sprocket is directly tied into the wheel. If it wasnt, our bikes would sit in place and never move when we get on the gas.
Either way, the visual proof is on the video. Please take this as fact as othat we can end this side discussion.
The shop that installed the tire is closed today, hopefully I can give them a call tomorrow and get this issue resolved this week. I'll push to get a new tire if its defective.
Again, if anyone has an S2R with a bald tire that they are planning to take off anyways to replace, I'd love to stop by and borrow your rim for a quick garage test. That would settle this once and for all.
Indeed this is true, my point is that when on the stand the weight of the bike is on the stand bearing. When you rotate the wheel whilst on the stand, the stand bearing has an influence on how the rotation "feels". I've had the opposite, when on the stand the rotation felt rough but when on a centre stand with the suspension unloaded the rotation felt fine.
I had suggested you unload your suspension (not on the stand) and observe the rotation of the wheel as a process of elmination as to why it doesnt click while on the stand.
I rather think that incorrect fitment of the rear wheel is the culprit, when you roll the bike, the weight is transmitted through the wheel to the axle wheras when on the stand the weight is transmitted directly to the axle. (another clue is the recent?) tire change.
I would want to be present when the wheel is removed to asses any damage that might have been caused.
Thank you for clarifying. You make a good point. If its the wheel fitment onto the eccentric, this would be totally my fault. Cuz I did the installation. It might be that a one of the 4 pins broke off the carrier for the wheel. That might be the other culprit. Thats the only other item I can think af at this time.
Quote from: Capo on August 18, 2008, 11:43:08 AM
...
..., when you roll the bike, the weight is transmitted through the wheel to the axle wheras when on the stand the weight is transmitted directly to the axle. (another clue is the recent?) tire change.
...
That makes sense. [thumbsup]
Quote from: PizzaMonster on August 18, 2008, 11:08:25 AM
I don't know if this could be the problem or not but it might be worth a look.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3915.0 (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3915.0)
You did say the wheel was off for tire replacement and this mounting error is easy enough to make. I suppose the "popping" noise could be the locating pins binding on the wheel as they try and seat into the casting spaces.
Good luck. Whatever it is it just sounds wrong!
That would be my guess since it's not the cush drive rubbers.
I'm going to pull off the wheel and take a look. If I misaligned the tabs, I'll find out soon enough. Luckily, I've had no issues with the nut backing out cuz I'm ultra anal about torque specs..
If this is the case, I'm hoping the damage will be minimal..
QuoteI don't know if this could be the problem or not but it might be worth a look.
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=3915.0
You did say the wheel was off for tire replacement and this mounting error is easy enough to make. I suppose the "popping" noise could be the locating pins binding on the wheel as they try and seat into the casting spaces.
+1
Well I took the wheel off and put it back on. Didnt do anything else..popping noise gone.. Just might have been a locating pin issue and previously reported. Funny part is that when I took the wheel off, The wheel was physically seated in the holes. It wasnt as if it was off in some fashion.. I dunno..so far the issue seems to have solved itself.. Took it for a spin with no issues..
Guess I got lucky..