Thread #2 on repairing my Honda.
As mentioned in the "Suspension" thread, I also need to clean out my carbs and delouse the fuel tank. It got really rusty and sludgy after sitting there for several years. I tried to clean the heck out of it when I refurbished the bike in December '06, but apparently it is still shedding microscopic rust atoms through my fuel filter into the pilot/idle jets. This theory is based on discussions with Randy McCarter. The engine won't idle at all and will barely start, but if I get it past idle it will run at higher revs, so I'm sure Randy is right.
He recommended using a tank cleaning and sealant kit called POR-15. I've heard of this stuff before and it's supposed to be really good, so I'm going to pick up a "Cycle Tank Repair Kit" tomorrow and have a go at it. Randy said he'd never done it personally, but knows others who have had good results, so he thought even I could possibly handle it.
Anybody done this kind of thing before?? I assume there are a few tricks to it and many ways to screw something up, but I'll see what the instructions say and hope for the best.
The guy doing the Monza is doing the tank with POR 15, he highly recommended it.
I think it's messy & is a 3 stage process, consuming time...
Sure you don't want Randy to do it for you?!? [laugh]
I have never tried it but it does sound familiar. I have used the Tank Creme (sp?) stuff several times over the years. The last bike I resurrected was my 1990 Kawi ZX-11 back in 2004 and it's tank was for shit. Used the Creme stuff (minus the sealer), sold the bike to a friend's son with a disclaimer about the tank, they bought it anyway and sure enough he had problems. Bingo, $800 for a new gas tank. Can't believe they could still find a new one for a 1990 bike! Oh well, the rest of the bike was perfect so they knew what they were getting into.
It is a semi messy job for sure. The POR-15 stuff sounds better than what I used. Where do you get it?
Quote from: General Charming on August 21, 2008, 03:09:04 PM
The guy doing the Monza is doing the tank with POR 15, he highly recommended it.
I think it's messy & is a 3 stage process, consuming time...
Sure you don't want Randy to do it for you?!? [laugh]
I had EVERY intention of Randy doing it, but since he hasn't done it before either and he didn't sound highly thrilled about it, I might as well learn how to do something new. Not to mention the total cost with the kit and his labor, he observed that this would be getting into some money. Nice of him to be that way about it.
Here's what's in the kit. I believe you are correct, 3 stages and I predict very messy. Yuck. With my luck, I will either drop the tank while I'm shaking up the goo, or I'll dribble it on the paint and douche it out.
Each Kit Contains:
MARINE CLEANâ,,¢ to remove gum, sludge, varnish
METAL READYâ,,¢ to remove rust & prepare tank for sealer
U.S. STANDARD TANK SEALERâ,,¢ creates a permanently sealed tank
CLOTH PATCH for sealing large holes or reinforcing weak areas
BRUSH for applying patching system to exterior of tank
DETAILED INSTRUCTIONS to take you easily through each step of tank restoration
Quote from: fastwin on August 21, 2008, 03:15:06 PM
I have never tried it but it does sound familiar. I have used the Tank Creme (sp?) stuff several times over the years. The last bike I resurrected was my 1990 Kawi ZX-11 back in 2004 and it's tank was for shit. Used the Creme stuff (minus the sealer), sold the bike to a friend's son with a disclaimer about the tank, they bought it anyway and sure enough he had problems. Bingo, $800 for a new gas tank. Can't believe they could still find a new one for a 1990 bike! Oh well, the rest of the bike was perfect so they knew what they were getting into.
It is a semi messy job for sure. The POR-15 stuff sounds better than what I used. Where do you get it?
Randy said the Cream isn't near as good, it tends to flake off and clog up your stuff.
I had to do a search on the google, and the English Color stores in the area carry some of the kits. The store in Duncanville had the Cycle Tank Kit. You can also order it straight from the POR-15 website, but I'd like to "mess" with it this weekend.
I'm getting "excited" to ride again. Have not two-wheeled since the Hill Country trip and my mojo is all out of sorts.
try any off road shop or jeep outfitter.........POR15 is very popular with Jeep Owners. It comes in quarts and gallons, but is usually painted on using a brush or roller, after the marine clean and metal ready of course......how do you do the inside of a gas tank????? Hope you have adequate ventilation! Stinks like hell.... we bought ours from www.quadratec.com
coming from the jeep background i have know plenty of ppl who used por-15 on their frames and such.
it does a kickass job with rust.
i say we do this after a couple beers on the labor day weekend! [thumbsup]
and you're always welcome to ride the SS around town...just let me know.
I REALLY hope I can get it done this weekend. Got my kit yesterday. Looks like the chemicals are really nasty so should be a good mad scientist lab experiment! [thumbsup]
i repeat......lots o ventilation [thumbsup]
Quote from: her baby daddy on August 23, 2008, 07:24:06 AM
i repeat......lots o ventilation [thumbsup]
Ventilation... Do they make that at Miller Brewery?
dunno check w/ richd [cheeky]
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HONDA-CBR900-GAS-TANK_W0QQitemZ120297171543QQihZ002QQcategoryZ35586QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
pretty good price so far
Quote from: Ronr on August 23, 2008, 06:29:50 AM
I REALLY hope I can get it done this weekend. Got my kit yesterday. Looks like the chemicals are really nasty so should be a good mad scientist lab experiment! [thumbsup]
Shake N Bake, Baby [thumbsup]
Got the tank done today. Eight freakin hours of soaking, sloshing, rinsing, blowing and sealing.
I'm sold on the POR-15 kit. The first hot alkaline mix got a lot of scale and particles loosened up and flushed out. The acid etch took two hours and got a few remaining particles out. I was really impressed with how clean the rinse water came out. The surface inside the tank looked good.
The tank has to be "bone dry" for the sealer, so with the air compressor and Stephanie's hair dryer I finally was ready. Poured the sealant in and rolled tank around til I thought it was all coated. It has a nice smooth silver metal flake finish. Drained all I could and now it has to cure for four days.
So we can ride Saturday [thumbsup]
my monster's tank's got the por15 treatment, great stuff
Quote from: Ronr on August 24, 2008, 09:25:24 PM
Got the tank done today. Eight freakin hours of soaking, sloshing, rinsing, blowing and sealing.
I'm sold on the POR-15 kit. The first hot alkaline mix got a lot of scale and particles loosened up and flushed out. The acid etch took two hours and got a few remaining particles out. I was really impressed with how clean the rinse water came out. The surface inside the tank looked good.
The tank has to be "bone dry" for the sealer, so with the air compressor and Stephanie's hair dryer I finally was ready. Poured the sealant in and rolled tank around til I thought it was all coated. It has a nice smooth silver metal flake finish. Drained all I could and now it has to cure for four days.
Good Times [thumbsup]
Nice one Ron! Hopefully it was a full day well spent. Sounds just from your description to be a better program that the Tank Creme stuff. You might be seeing an EPA car circling your block for the next couple of days wondering what you did with all the used and excess acid and sealer. [laugh] Hope it works as well as it sounds! May have been an all day, messy project but it's better than trying to find a '96 CBR900 tank in decent condition! It will be fun seeing the old gal up and running again, bet she's got lots of good times left in her. [moto]
That's a cool looking bike, Ron - can't wait to see it in person [thumbsup]
Quote from: stoopid, slightly on August 25, 2008, 05:51:49 AM
So we can ride Saturday [thumbsup]
Wish I could. I'm thinking saturday is final assembly day if the forks get done. Can't wait!
Quote from: fastwin on August 25, 2008, 06:05:27 AM
Nice one Ron! Hopefully it was a full day well spent. Sounds just from your description to be a better program that the Tank Creme stuff. You might be seeing an EPA car circling your block for the next couple of days wondering what you did with all the used and excess acid and sealer. [laugh] Hope it works as well as it sounds! May have been an all day, messy project but it's better than trying to find a '96 CBR900 tank in decent condition! It will be fun seeing the old gal up and running again, bet she's got lots of good times left in her. [moto]
All excess chemicals were disposed of in accordance with federal regulations and shit [leo]
Quote from: Cher on August 25, 2008, 05:14:58 PM
That's a cool looking bike, Ron - can't wait to see it in person [thumbsup]
The flame job is a little out there nowadays but I probably won't pass another one on the road. Just hope y'all don't mind my four banger Two Brothers racket for a while.
Quote from: Ronr on August 25, 2008, 06:09:17 PM
The flame job is a little out there nowadays but I probably won't pass another one on the road. Just hope y'all don't mind my four banger Two Brothers racket for a while.
Mind?? Hell no ;D Love that rice burner man [thumbsup]
I'll grab the R1 and me you and Brian can all meet at Sonic [thumbsup]
Quote from: stoopid, slightly on August 26, 2008, 05:26:18 AM
I'll grab the R1 and me you and Brian can all meet at Sonic [thumbsup]
Dont forget your shorts and t-shirts [laugh]
Quote from: Ronr on August 23, 2008, 07:34:10 AM
Ventilation... Do they make that at Miller Brewery?
In all different sizes!
It's Alive!!
Put the front end on yesterday and the new forks look great. Cleaned up the carbs today. Idle jets were completely clogged. Everything else was pretty gross. Reinstalled carbs and tank and fired her right up. A little cold blooded at first but once it was warm it idled and ran really nice. A few more items tomorrow and we go for a test ride. Can't wait!
Quote from: Ronr on September 03, 2008, 04:21:28 PM
It's Alive!!
Put the front end on yesterday and the new forks look great. Cleaned up the carbs today. Idle jets were completely clogged. Everything else was pretty gross. Reinstalled carbs and tank and fired her right up. A little cold blooded at first but once it was warm it idled and ran really nice. A few more items tomorrow and we go for a test ride. Can't wait!
You tying to make the dinner?
Quote from: Ronr on September 03, 2008, 04:21:28 PM
It's Alive!!
Put the front end on yesterday and the new forks look great. Cleaned up the carbs today. Idle jets were completely clogged. Everything else was pretty gross. Reinstalled carbs and tank and fired her right up. A little cold blooded at first but once it was warm it idled and ran really nice. A few more items tomorrow and we go for a test ride. Can't wait!
can't wait to see it/hear it... i meant to check it out on sunday, but got sidetracked with all the dips/ribs/etc that was around... you understand i'm sure.
Quote from: Kevin848 on August 26, 2008, 05:28:45 AM
Dont forget your shorts and t-shirts [laugh]
I'd have to stop at Target and get some flip flops. [laugh]
Glad your bike is up! Sounds like a lot of work, but well worth it! ;)
Cleaning carbs is long messy work.
Good job! [thumbsup]
Awesome man! Cant wait to see her on the rode!
Thanks all for the well wishes.
Can't wait to ride it around with my backwards ballcap, Lynerd Skynerd tank top, flip flops and hot tramp on the back - yeehaw!!
I'd like to make it to the westies wildass dinner but don't know if I will trust it out of the neighborhood for a bit.
See u guys on the road soon!
i need to watch someone pull and clean their carbs...that's something i'd like to do myself in the next few weeks.
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on September 04, 2008, 05:35:13 AM
i need to watch someone pull and clean their carbs...that's something i'd like to do myself in the next few weeks.
me too, but I have 4 and a jet kit to install :P
I'll be installing new needle jets sometime soon, you are more than welcome to come over and watch [laugh]
i may actually have a jet kit in there now; the prev. owner wasn't sure and i haven't pulled them out yet.
I'll be glad to help you guys. The hard part is getting the carbs out of the bike usually. On a jet kit, if you have good instructions about what needle settings to use, it's pretty easy.
<--- has zero instructions
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on September 04, 2008, 09:16:22 AM
<--- has zero instructions
No big deal. It should be pretty easy to tell if you have aftermarket needles. There are normally a few grooves at the top with a Jesus clip to raise or lower the needle position. Stock parts usually look stock, although I'm not familiar with Ducati carbs. Anybody know who makes carbs for Ducs?
To make sure your needles and jets are optimised you'll have to visit your friendly neighborhood dyno.
teh Mikuni
I'd like to watch and learn the ways of the carb rebuild.
i think someone has carb envy
There's just not enough stuff to tinker on the 'lectric bikes now.
voltage regulators? :-\
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on September 04, 2008, 11:43:54 AM
teh Mikuni
Old school.
I've heard of you taking a few things apart and putting them back together. If you ever happen to have your fuel tank off, I figure you would have access to the carbs. There should be a black plastic cap held on by four screws. Slowly raise that cap and there's a rubber diaphragm. Pull that up and you should see a shiny long needle dangling from it. Then disassemble it and look at the parts.
You can do all that to just snoop around without pulling the carbs.
Quote from: Ronr on September 04, 2008, 02:41:51 PM
...If you ever happen to have your fuel tank off, I figure you would have access to the carbs....
On the SS the tank stays on (but up on the prop rod) and the airbox/battery/etc. comes out.
If you unbolt the sub-bracket the coils are mounted to there are connectors on the left side so it can be swung (out of the way) to the right without unhooking
lots of wires.
If you get the airbox out of the way -you're looking at five more minutes before they are on a table.
I'd like to see some SS disassembly [thumbsup]
sounds easy enough...i've taken out airboxes/coils/batteries before so sounds straightforward. i'll resist the urge to tackle it in my parking lot though and wait until i'm in someone's garage...
i've looked at the innards of the carbs i handed off to richD...neat stuff. did you ever check and see if those needles were dynojet man? i can't remember from when i looked at them.
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on September 04, 2008, 03:15:08 PM...did you ever check and see if those needles were dynojet man? i can't remember from when i looked at them.
I haven't checked.... but it wouldn't say anyway. The numbers and lertters in them need to be checked against a known build sheet for the specific model bike.
The best thing to do is get one of the jet kits from Chris Kelley with the needles
and needle jets and just do it.
If the ones you pull out aren't worn badly (usually the needle jets you've got are Effed every time you look (every ~12-15K miles) and are the same numbers as the new ones, save 'em. Spare carb parts are never a bad thing.
I've got some super-zoomie you can shoot on the gaskets and they'll never stick. If you get stuck somewhere you can take it apart without a gasket kit! [thumbsup]
Replaced my stock brake lines with Galfer braided steel lines. Need to bleed them some more after I ride it a bit and jostle any remaining bubbles loose. Put everything back together and she is whole once again. Just gotta clean all my tools off the runway and I'm off for a test ride. Hope I tightened everything up good....
might I suggest a 185 mile Sunday morning ride [thumbsup]
Ron, you have been working so hard, you should reward yourself with an excellent ride!!!!!!!!
we're still talkin about motorcycles, right?
Quote from: TomTomLost on September 05, 2008, 01:46:44 PM
we're still talkin about motorcycles, right?
[laugh] [laugh] [laugh]
Quote from: TomTomLost on September 05, 2008, 01:46:44 PM
we're still talkin about motorcycles, right?
Actually I was leaving that open to interpretation............. [evil]
[FAIL]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzQxWlFhAnY
LMAO!!!! [laugh] [bacon]
I need a "Dont fall off stripper poles" avatar ;D [laugh]
Yeah, cuz that's funny, and the don't fall down stairs avatar is just causing me pain..... :P
Quote from: Bonwilder on September 05, 2008, 02:05:16 PM
Yeah, cuz that's funny, and the don't fall down stairs avatar is just causing me pain..... :P
Sorry, bad memories of falling down stairs? ;)
Quote from: Kevin848 on September 05, 2008, 02:07:23 PM
Sorry, bad memories of falling down stairs? ;)
Actually, I did fall down the stairs when I was really little, broke my nose, and knocked myself out. My mom says it was my dad's fault......don't remember it though. ???
Quote from: Bonwilder on September 05, 2008, 01:49:07 PM
Actually I was leaving that open to interpretation............. [evil]
[popcorn]
Quote from: Bonwilder on September 05, 2008, 02:10:29 PM
Actually, I did fall down the stairs when I was really little, broke my nose, and knocked myself out. My mom says it was my dad's fault......don't remember it though. ???
Sorry to hear that... avatar changed ;D
Quote from: Kevin848 on September 05, 2008, 02:26:16 PM
Sorry to hear that... avatar changed ;D
Thanx, Crazy Eyes!! [laugh]
Quote from: Bonwilder on September 05, 2008, 02:26:38 PM
[popcorn] [popcorn]
TWO popcorns?
WOW.
Watch out for all that fiber...
;D
Quote from: Bonwilder on September 05, 2008, 01:44:38 PM
Ron, you have been working so hard, you should reward yourself with an excellent ride!!!!!!!!
Sounds great!! What do you have in mind? :-*
I did a little test loop through southeast Lancaster, out to the airport and back. I can't find anything missing yet, so that's a good sign. It ran pretty good and the brakes stopped me okay. The forks felt good. I lowered the front end 1.0 mm when I installed the forks just to play with the handling, and that felt pretty good so far for a leisurely ride.
One thing that was weird. I filled up the tank before I left (not completely but close) and rolled it into the driveway to start it. After a few minutes, while I was getting my gear on, gas started pouring out the internal tank vent drain tube. I opened the tank cap and it kept flowing. It finally stopped for some reason. Never had that happen with this bike, hope it doesn't become a habit.
Quote from: Bonwilder on September 05, 2008, 02:05:16 PM
Yeah, cuz that's funny, and the don't fall down stairs avatar is just causing me pain..... :P
Ya mean like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7ElRBUak2g
Quote from: Ronr on September 05, 2008, 03:42:35 PM
Sounds great!! What do you have in mind? :-*
I did a little test loop through southeast Lancaster, out to the airport and back. I can't find anything missing yet, so that's a good sign. It ran pretty good and the brakes stopped me okay. The forks felt good. I lowered the front end 1.0 mm when I installed the forks just to play with the handling, and that felt pretty good so far for a leisurely ride.
One thing that was weird. I filled up the tank before I left (not completely but close) and rolled it into the driveway to start it. After a few minutes, while I was getting my gear on, gas started pouring out the internal tank vent drain tube. I opened the tank cap and it kept flowing. It finally stopped for some reason. Never had that happen with this bike, hope it doesn't become a habit.
Some bikes, (my SS is one of them) the vent tube runs through the tank.
If the hose splits, it'll drain the tank to thak level...
Quote from: Ronr on September 05, 2008, 03:42:35 PM
Sounds great!! What do you have in mind? :-*
(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/confused/confused0006.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-innocent-smileys.php)
(http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/evilgrin/evilgrin0042.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-love-smileys.php)
Quote from: SUPER DUKE! on September 05, 2008, 04:06:48 PM
Some bikes, (my SS is one of them) the vent tube runs through the tank.
If the hose splits, it'll drain the tank to thak level...
Maybe my tank repair kit dissolved a beneficial bit of tubing. I need to get me a small mirror on a stick so I can peer inside the tank. Should be fixable if that's all it is.