I fitted some new pipes to add a pleasing sound track to the bike, but was quite surprised that they made a huge difference to the bike in terms of improving midrange and pick up etc.
I was wondering if fitting a K&N air filter or similar would improve matters further, without resorting to a power commander. Any views?
Dont do it without a powercommander. Since your bike is an M1000 you have the option to do this fairly easily.
I would suggest PODS if your are planning to go with this setup..TPO setup is very good for this.
QuoteDont do it without a powercommander.
+1. I am surprised that you had an improvement even with just the exhaust without a power commander. Exhaust by itself does not improve things without a change in fuel/air settings.
There's more difference in changing the filter than changing the exhausts.
There is some disagreement about pods versus open airbox. The airbox can actually increase airflow over pods because of the shape and resonance characteristics.
Quote from: Manx on August 22, 2008, 09:44:51 AM
I fitted some new pipes to add a pleasing sound track to the bike, but was quite surprised that they made a huge difference to the bike in terms of improving midrange and pick up etc.
I was wondering if fitting a K&N air filter or similar would improve matters further, without resorting to a power commander. Any views?
Ducati stock filters actually flow pretty well for a paper filter.
You'll see more results from opening the airbox...
but will need a PC
If you have a smaller displacement wet clutch bike then the increase in power for opening the air-box (even with a PCIII remap) will be marginal. I wouldn't do it unless I had a bigger bike. Also try riding around the block once with your air box removed to see if you even like the loud intake noise.
mufflers alone can make a huge difference, even to part throttle running. my 750 is much faster with the open mufflers on it, especially in the mid range. and they impact response a lot too.
how much it varies the mixture depends on the model ime. not so much on a 1000, 800 always seemed to lean out a lot, 620 not much at all. air box lid doesn't make as much difference mixture wise as many think. a high flow filter on its own won't really do anything - the std filters are more than big enough to not be an issue.
Quote from: brad black on August 25, 2008, 06:18:48 AM
<snip> air box lid doesn't make as much difference mixture wise as many think. <snip>
Do you think that's true with carbed bikes too?
i think it makes a lot of difference to how the carbs work. maybe not so much to the jetting per se, but they just don't want to run without the lid and std jetting. more to do with signal strength and slide lift, that sort of stuff i think. i don't really understand cv carbs in why they'd react the way they do to the open lid.
we run 900ss with open lids with the same 140 mains as they have std. i think they're a bit too rich std, but not hugely. whereas a monster wants 155. dunno why.
my monster ended up with 165 (dynojet) with a swiss cheesed lid and a K&N. :-\
http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/dyno-mikuni.htm
much the same.
Quote from: brad black on August 26, 2008, 06:11:16 AM
http://vmaxoutlaw.com/tech/dyno-mikuni.htm
much the same.
Thanks for that....
Never saw that chart. [thumbsup]
added to bookmarks
What about running a K&N (or similar) filter with the air box lid still on? Would that require a PC or might I get away with not? My suspicion right now is that my bike is running a tad rich, but I still need to pull the plugs to verify...
thx,
b.
Quote from: b. on August 26, 2008, 11:09:24 AM
What about running a K&N (or similar) filter with the air box lid still on? Would that require a PC or might I get away with not? My suspicion right now is that my bike is running a tad rich, but I still need to pull the plugs to verify...
thx,
b.
What bike?
Quote from: b. on August 26, 2008, 02:55:31 PM
'05 620.
Quote from: brad black on August 25, 2008, 06:18:48 AM
mufflers alone can make a huge difference, even to part throttle running. my 750 is much faster with the open mufflers on it, especially in the mid range. and they impact response a lot too.
how much it varies the mixture depends on the model ime. not so much on a 1000, 800 always seemed to lean out a lot, 620 not much at all. air box lid doesn't make as much difference mixture wise as many think. a high flow filter on its own won't really do anything - the std filters are more than big enough to not be an issue.
The way I read this is that the 620 doesn't seem to be affected much.
Quote from: ducpainter on August 26, 2008, 06:23:51 PM
The way I read this is that the 620 doesn't seem to be affected much.
Yeah, from what brad black says, it sounds like I can drop in a K&N no problem. But what if I drop in a high flow filter AND cut larger holes in the air box lid or run an open lid altogether?...it
seems like that would affect the mix a lot more. Any further input on that brad black? I don't want to chop an air box lid or run without one if it means I need a PC or have to take the bike in to get re-tuned...
thx,
b.
Brad's at work...
maybe he'll answer in our am.
Quote from: b. on August 26, 2008, 06:41:13 PM
Yeah, from what brad black says, it sounds like I can drop in a K&N no problem. But what if I drop in a high flow filter AND cut larger holes in the air box lid or run an open lid altogether?...it seems like that would affect the mix a lot more. Any further input on that brad black? I don't want to chop an air box lid or run without one if it means I need a PC or have to take the bike in to get re-tuned...
thx,
b.
Why don't you try removing the lid and attaching the standard filter with tie raps or something. Just to see if you feel a difference.
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/620sport.html shows the ss. never tested a 620m.
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/800monster.html shows an 800m. big mixture difference with mufflers, not so much with addition of open lid.
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/1000dscam.html shows a 1000ss. another ss i did showed about twice the difference in mixture when going to the open lid - going from say 13.3 to 13.8 sort of thing.
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/s2r1000datalog.html shows a s2r 1000 logged on the road and on the dyno running std ecu and lambda sensor disconnected. it has comparisons between std and open air box lid down toward the bottom
carb bikes don't work - going from closed to open airbox with no other mods just causes a big hole and no power. if i could post a graph here i'd show what happens, but generally it's ok until 4 or 5,000 then it goes to shite.
Quote from: brad black on August 27, 2008, 04:39:07 AM
http://www.moto-one.com.au/performance/620sport.html shows the ss. never tested a 620m.
thx brad! from your findings, it sounds like i should be able to drop in a high flow filter and chop up the air box without having to get a PCIII or adjusting the mixture. either way, i'll take IdZer0's advice and give it a shot and see what happens...
[thumbsup]
b.