Apparently stuck clutch plates

[banterer]

I incorrectly posted this in the "how to" section but did get what appears to be an answer from "yuu" that is getting closer to the problem. I will continue the post here:

Quote from: banterer on Yesterday at 11:45:29 PM
It's already here so just let me explain what I am trying to do or figure out by asking these questions.
I am just trying to come up with some reason for why the clutch refuses to disengage. On one of the other forums I was told to bleed the clutch. I did so and after I bled it, the bike seemed to go through gears 1-5 (with or without) the clutch. I was also told that my description of the bike going into gear was not out of the ordinary and that I should turn it on and let it warm up to 140º. I did so. I then sat on it squeezed the clutch and the bike proceeded to go into gear and stall out.

So??? What could it be? I downloaded the manual and saw that there is even a safety switch on the kickstand. I tried it with the stand up and down but got the same results.
Has the bike been sitting a long time?  If so, the plates can become stuck together and it might take a few of those stalls to get them to break loose.

But you may need to bleed it more.  Bleeding a clutch is a pretty painstaking process.  Since they bleeder is one of the lowest points, it's not uncommon for their to be air stuck in the system.  One trick is to bleed it a bit and then just strap the lever to the bar and let it sit for a day or two.  That can allow air trapped at the high side to work it's way into the reservoir and out of your hair.

Thanks Yuu.

Yes, the owner told me that it was sitting since November. It initially could not start. I replaced the battery and that is just fine now.

It is in essence a new '05 Monster. It has 993 miles on it and not a scratch! I am thinking about keeping it but a friend is telling me that I should not start out with a Duc since maintenance is expensive and limited to expensive, specialized Ducati replacements. I have heard this from 3 different people now. Ok back to the problem at hand...

Right, I attempted to do it using a vacuum pump but now understand why the pressurized bleeding systems w
should work much better. In other words, one has to overcome the tendency of the bubbles to rise up the cable when trying to bleed the clutch manually down at the lowest point. So why don't the manufacturers put a bleeder dudad at the highest point??? Do they just figure that anyone who is going to bleed the system is going to be using the pressurized method? I was looking for one but since I could not find one Sears in SoCal that stocked the MityVac 6830 I just got what was in stock.

I don't really know how clutches "work" and therefore also don't know the difference between a wet or dry clutch. Motorcycles are a whole new thing to me and without knowing any of their operating principles, I am at a total loss as to how to proceed without taking in to a mechanic. I know two reasonable ones but they are about 1..5 and 2 hrs away respectively and I was hoping that this would be a fix I could do myself.

[Slide Panda]

Yes, the owner told me that it was sitting since November. It initially could not start. I replaced the battery and that is just fine now.

It is in essence a new '05 Monster. It has 993 miles on it and not a scratch! I am thinking about keeping it but a friend is telling me that I should not start out with a Duc since maintenance is expensive and limited to expensive, specialized Ducati replacements. I have heard this from 3 different people now. Ok back to the problem at hand...

Erm - well one thing that needs to be addressed also is your cam belts.  They are spec'd for replacement at 2 years or 12k miles.  Some folks who run the bike regularaly but don't make 12k in 2 years have pushed them to 3 years.  But the important part of that is that they ran the bike regularly.  If they sit, unturned, for a long period they can develop brittle sections.  So you should be looking to replace those belts sooner rather than later.

And if it's been sitting for 10 months, you should change out the oil as well.  Your bike will thank you.  As I mentioned before, just letting it sit, the plates have probably become stuck together.  Fresh oil may help this problem and it might take a few stalls to get the banged loose.  But if they don't free up after a few tries you might have to open her up and start pulling the plates out by hand.   So, you might wait until you hit that cross roads before you change the oil - since you'll need to drain the case before you crack her open..

So why don't the manufacturers put a bleeder dudad at the highest point??? Do they just figure that anyone who is going to bleed the system is going to be using the pressurized method?

Cost... Some of the higher end masters will have a bleeder on them.  But you've got the lowest tier masters on the 620.

I don't really know how clutches "work" and therefore also don't know the difference between a wet or dry clutch. Motorcycles are a whole new thing to me and without knowing any of their operating principles, I am at a total loss as to how to proceed without taking in to a mechanic. I know two reasonable ones but they are about 1..5 and 2 hrs away respectively and I was hoping that this would be a fix I could do myself.

Wet is bathed in oil that is shared with the engine.  Dry are sealed from the engine oil. 

Mechanically they operate the same way.  A stack of plates with teeth in a basket that surround a hub.  One set of plates have teeth that face out and mate to the basket - drive plates.  The other have teeth that face in and mate to the hub- driven plates.  There's a special plate (the pressure plate) that is attached to the hub and compresses the stack with spring pressure.  IN the center of the pressure plate there's a push rod that runs through the bike to your clutch slave.  When you pull the lever a piston in the slave moves out and pushes that pressure plate away from the stack, allowing the drive and driven plates to slip.

Get some books is how you might proceed.  LT Synders manual (www.desmotimes.com) and the updated Haynes manual will be easy to get and helpful.  And if you can get you hands on it, the Ducati factory service manual for you bike will have all the particulars for your bike.  The other 2 books are very informative, but cover a variety of bikes so they might not address some of the little details for each bike.

And yes, I  am bored at work...

[Capo]

An excellent and informative post Mr Yuu.

[banterer]

Thanks for the info. I have loosened the cover for the clutch fluid and tied the clutch lever. I will seal it up tomorrow and put it in first a few times and see if that loosens the plates. If not, I will just have to truck it down to a mechanic to both replace the cam belts and to unstick the clutch.

Thanks again!
Jorge