New riders on 600s

[Raux]

valid points. lower entry cost, but with same high maintenance costs, would hurt the ducati image.

[semyhr]

So you're asserting that your 80 hp (at the engine) 696 is comparable to the 110+ rwhp (6th paragraph down) Yamaha R6, the first production bike to break 170 mph, or even a comparable KawaHonZuki.

Riiiiiiiiight.

The first bike I rode was kawasaki z750 and that's the bike I learned to ride and I don't see why you can't compare it to monster. R6 is a different story but as I mentioned you buy R6 to race, there is no pleasure chilling on that bike.

[Buckethead]

Of the guys at my work who ride, 2 have GSX-R 600's, 2 have R6's, 3 have CBR 600's, and the rest have an assortment of cruisers. Oh, and there's a dude on a stretched white 'Busa.

None of them do trackdays.

[Popeye the Sailor]

Only the MSF ones... I am under the impression that a 250 ninja is much quicker than a 250 Nighthawk. I think smaller bikes are fine, maybe I am 'personalizing' my posts too much to just my thinking and size... I guess I should clarify, what I am saying is a 620 Monster is a great bike for a beginner, I weigh 225 and I think anything with less HP than my 620 might actually be more dangerous. I believe a 250 Ninja might have roughly the same HP, so there might be no sense in some of my posting as I have never rode a bike like this. Regardless, to touch back to the OP here, to imply "all 600cc bikes are too much for a newbie" is a blanket statement that I do not agree with, is there not a big difference between the 2 valve and 4 valve motors? I just find the discussion interesting though, but I will freely admit other than the MSF bikes I have only rode my 620.

See if you can find a friend with one sometime. I ain't no lighter than you, and I was impressed. Yes, you have to wring it's neck, but the bike *did* definitely move along fine. It's definitely a fun ride 

[semyhr]

Of the guys at my work who ride, 2 have GSX-R 600's, 2 have R6's, 3 have CBR 600's, and the rest have an assortment of cruisers. Oh, and there's a dude on a stretched white 'Busa.

None of them do trackdays.

They don't do track days, but do they drive by the posted speed limits on the highways?

[ryandalling]

I don't think CC should be the measurement... HP, torque, and weight.... Too many new riders drop the bike at stops cause it weighs too much or they are not used to the weight... or are just too short to completely flat foot it... but that is the minor issue... a 620 monster versus a cbr600.... big difference in the trouble factor. As to off roading... I grew up on off road bikes... and it helps a lot.... Oh.. and I don't think any of us obey the posted speed limits on highways... cager or bike...     YES... I agree.. they should have graduated licenses.. it would be safer for all involved.  (I think I replied to all comments made in random order.) 

[killaimdie]

My first bike was an M900. I have nothing wrong with people starting on bigger bikes, it just takes a level head and a bit of restraint.

[ellingly]

I don't think CC should be the measurement... HP, torque, and weight.... Too many new riders drop the bike at stops cause it weighs too much or they are not used to the weight... or are just too short to completely flat foot it... but that is the minor issue... a 620 monster versus a cbr600.... big difference in the trouble factor. As to off roading... I grew up on off road bikes... and it helps a lot.... Oh.. and I don't think any of us obey the posted speed limits on highways... cager or bike...     YES... I agree.. they should have graduated licenses.. it would be safer for all involved.  (I think I replied to all comments made in random order.) 

A fair proportion of Australia runs a power to weight setup - the "learner approved motorcycle scheme". There is even a detuned M620 available under it. I think it's as good a compromise as one can make. Deals with the complete numpties, and the restrictions don't last that long if you've had a car licence for at least a couple of years. For reference, the only bikes < 250cc which aren't allowed are the Suzuki RGV250, Aprilia RS250 and the like i.e. proper race two-strokes.

There are some anomalies in the inplementation from state to state, though. Where I live (the Aus. Capital Territory), it's purely power to weight and you can actually ride a Harley under your restrictions. The implementation of weight is slightly different here, too, they allow less for bikes above 250 cc so a Honda RVF400 isn't allowed in the ACT but is in the state which entirely contains the ACT...

Still gives people plenty of options for bikes which are pretty damned quick, and means taller people have options too.

[PragB]

I think it's funny when people say they started on a 600, and then they say it's like a 19XX 600... Yeah... It's pretty evident that a 19XX and a 2008 600 are sooooo comparable... They have the same weight & power and braking and acceleration

A modern 600 is bordering on being as powerful and as light weight with aggresive ergos and rake and trail numbers as race bikes were at one time...

So yeah, have fun starting on one.....

And the you can die on a 250 argument is moot also... The handling, although nice (for an experienced rider), on say a 2008 Ninja 250 is no where near as razor sharp as a modern 600...

It's a lot easier to get in over your head on a SuperSport than a beginner bike, power is only 1 small part of it, it's the package as a whole than makes it not a wise choice to begin your riding life with...

[Jobu]

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pnvkqIQcd8&feature=related

[Popeye the Sailor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pnvkqIQcd8&feature=related

Dear god. What's worse is the comments! People are listening to this idiot!

[Fresh Pants]

Dear god. What's worse is the comments! People are listening to this idiot!

What an idiot.
Weight is the #1 issue?
Buy the most powerful bike possible?
Idiot.

[teddy037.2]

so this friend of mine... never sat on a bike yet, decided he wants a bike.

the 'tender at the bar he manages actually told him "you'll fit well on a 'busa. I don't see anything wrong w/that."

I was speechless for a second. or two.

the whole time previously that I was talking to him, I had him practically sold on an 08 ninja 250 (since he does like new, shiny toys).

now he's looking at a 'busa.  I told him that he ought to at least let me ride it around the block before he bins it and kills himself.  he still doesn't seem to grasp my concern.

[Jeff U]

People often comment on weight, seat height & power.  When comparing the Ninja 250 & Ducati 696 size and weight are very close, power is not.

Weight:

2009 Ninja 250 - 374 lbs.
2009 Ducati 696 - 355 lbs.

Seat Height:

2009 Ninja 250 - 30.5"
2009 Ducati 696 - 30.3

Power-torque & HP:

2009 Ninja 250 - 16.2 ft-lbs  & 26 HP
2009 Ducati 696 - 50.6 ft-lbs & 80 HP

[superjohn]

People often comment on weight, seat height & power.  When comparing the Ninja 250 & Ducati 696 size and weight are very close, power is not.

Weight:

2009 Ninja 250 - 374 lbs.
2009 Ducati 696 - 355 lbs.

Seat Height:

2009 Ninja 250 - 30.5"
2009 Ducati 696 - 30.3

Power-torque & HP:

2009 Ninja 250 - 16.2 ft-lbs  & 26 HP
2009 Ducati 696 - 50.6 ft-lbs & 80 HP

I could be wrong, but I think that may be the wet weight for the Ninja compared to the dry weight for the 696. I noticed the other manufacturers were starting to use wet weight this year. Either way, the 696 has WAY more oomph than the ninja

so this friend of mine... never sat on a bike yet, decided he wants a bike.

the 'tender at the bar he manages actually told him "you'll fit well on a 'busa. I don't see anything wrong w/that."

I was speechless for a second. or two.

the whole time previously that I was talking to him, I had him practically sold on an 08 ninja 250 (since he does like new, shiny toys).

now he's looking at a 'busa.  I told him that he ought to at least let me ride it around the block before he bins it and kills himself.  he still doesn't seem to grasp my concern.

When I was first looking for a bike 8 years ago, I went to a dealer that had a 'busa on the floor. I asked about it, just curious at the time and the dealer asked how long it'd been since I'd been on a bike. I said about 10 years. He replied, "honestly, I wouldn't even sell you that bike because you'd be a greasy spot before you got to the freeway."

I gained some respect for that dealer because of that.