Question about valve guides at 6,000 mile service

[SDR_John]

He Man,

The work is already done... That's the point. Ducati says that since I asked for the 6k service first, then they only pay for the "extra" that it cost to do the guides... But if I hadn't asked for the 6k first, and only took it in for possibly worn guides,  they would have covered the whole cost.

I'm gonna chalk this one up to an expensive lesson, that being honest and forthright costs money! I should have just lied! That's the conclusion I've come to with regards to Ducati. I am very dissapointed. How hard would it have been for Ducati to say... "well since we had to replace the guides under warranty, and assembly/adjustment of the valves is compulsory, we'll cover that portion of your 6k..." That's how I treat my customers (albeit in totally different industries/context), and that's how I expect to be treated as a customer...

Lesson learned... I've got many more years of motorcycle purchasing before I'm gone... It's their loss...

[BK_856er]

He Man,

The work is already done... That's the point. Ducati says that since I asked for the 6k service first, then they only pay for the "extra" that it cost to do the guides... But if I hadn't asked for the 6k first, and only took it in for possibly worn guides,  they would have covered the whole cost.

I'm gonna chalk this one up to an expensive lesson, that being honest and forthright costs money! I should have just lied! That's the conclusion I've come to with regards to Ducati. I am very dissapointed. How hard would it have been for Ducati to say... "well since we had to replace the guides under warranty, and assembly/adjustment of the valves is compulsory, we'll cover that portion of your 6k..." That's how I treat my customers (albeit in totally different industries/context), and that's how I expect to be treated as a customer...

Lesson learned... I've got many more years of motorcycle purchasing before I'm gone... It's their loss...

Sorry, but I have to side with Ducati on this one.  From what I gather you brought it in for the 6k service, and during that service the dealer discovered that the guides were worn and replaced them at no added cost to you.  If it were me,  I would at least be grateful that the attentive dealer identified the worn guides before any symptoms emerged.  Looks to me like Ducati satisfied their obligations, and I don't see where you should be entitled to a discount on your requested 6k service.  It would be a different matter if you had prior running issues or complaints potentially related to the worn guides, or if there was a general recall of some sort, but that is not the case here.
BK

[He Man]

I dont agree with you BK.Worn Valve guides seldomly cause real issues. It will be make your bike run worst or any differently (noticeably atleast). As per the "general recall" it is a known problem and a common problem that is often covered under warranty without issue.

Yes you did bring it in for the 6k and through the process of the 6k the valve guides were found to be defective. Ducati covered the costs of replacing the valve guides. The valve guide job itself requires the shims to be readjusted for the new guides. It is part of the job no matter how you look at it.

I would agree that the dealer is entitled to charge you labor for the finding of the worn guides, which should of been noticed within 1 hour (preparing bike for valve adjustment and while checking adjustment).

Now, my personal point of view? you still got a few thousand dollars worth of work done, and you really didnt lose out on anything. You went in for a 6k, and you came out with a 6k + new guides. It would of been nice if you told the dealer hey, can you get ducati to cover the costs of the valve ajustment? because i rather much spend the money on you guys toward something more useful, like prepay my 12k service, or some new gear etc. (do note that most of their money comes from servicing bikes...) Either way, you still came out better than you did before without any damage.

Personally, i had a non certified shop do my valves that were terribly out of spec. 30 mins in, they said, uhhh your valve guides are beyond busted. I said, sweet, can you close it up and instead of the valve job, ill pay you guys to racetech spring/valve/adjust my forks? they said sure. BAM. Called up dealer said, hey guides are f**ed up. Can you warranty them? shop said yes. I brought it in. Got it all done for free though it was a 7 week struggle to get my bike back after they quoted me 2 weeks time.

[SDR_John]

Now, my personal point of view? you still got a few thousand dollars worth of work done, and you really didnt lose out on anything. You went in for a 6k, and you came out with a 6k + new guides. It would of been nice if you told the dealer hey, can you get ducati to cover the costs of the valve ajustment? because i rather much spend the money on you guys toward something more useful, like prepay my 12k service, or some new gear etc. (do note that most of their money comes from servicing bikes...) Either way, you still came out better than you did before without any damage.

I don't disagree with you about not loosing anything in the deal... It isn't so much a $$$ issue as a Good-PR thing. I agree that the dealer should have gone to bat for me with Ducati, and they say they have come up against similar situations in the past, and I beleive them, but Ducati shoots them down. I'm all for supporting my local dealer, I even bought my new helmet there last month when I could have gone online or to the super huge discount-o-rama store and gotten it cheaper. I put my money where my mouth is, and I guess I just expect that Ducati would go the extra mile to take care of it's customers. I think the dealer is caught between a rock and a hard place on this one, and aside from one individual there (the one who doesn't see the bigger picture and thinks I should be happy I'm only paying $19 more than quoted), I have no ill will towards them.

Personally, i had a non certified shop do my valves that were terribly out of spec. 30 mins in, they said, uhhh your valve guides are beyond busted. I said, sweet, can you close it up and instead of the valve job, ill pay you guys to racetech spring/valve/adjust my forks? they said sure. BAM. Called up dealer said, hey guides are f**ed up. Can you warranty them? shop said yes. I brought it in. Got it all done for free though it was a 7 week struggle to get my bike back after they quoted me 2 weeks time.

This, He Man, is a perfect example of "playing the game/working the Ducati system" that I now realize I'll have to play in the future... and I think that's a sad testament to Ducati.

[Gus Duc]

I think the shop is the one to point the finger @, not Ducati.  I'm sure they checked the guides BEFORE they checked any clearences or did anything else.  At best, I see them charging you for oil & filter but IMHO Ducati should cover that due to the fact your bike will be down for at least two weeks. 

Why is it so hard to find a competent, honest tech @ a dealer   I know with the S2R1K issues with the stalling, surging & bad guides & the lack of concern on most dealers parts has soured many on the brand....... I don't blame them either.

Too bad for you John & I hope you didn't purchase an extended waranty

[clubhousemotorsports]

I have seen this go both ways a lot falls on what the dealer is willing to do. I have seen dealers reduce a service by what warranty pays as well as a dealer that charged both ducati and the customer for the same work.

If it is done , just keep that in mind next time you need work .

The tech may have nothing to do with what you are being charged, I used to see bills after i submitted them and they were some times higher than what I turned in.

The ds1000 motors are far from the only ones that need guides, I changed a set of melted 695 heads and the guides were shot in them as well I have also changed plenty of guides in 620,750,800,900,748,916 motors. Guides are a wear item and ducati is not the only one that needs them. Difference is on that Japanese bike you are not going to even be close enough to check them until somewhere around 20,000 miles when the valves are first checked.

I have run a 750 motor of my own with bad guides for a full season of hard street and track miles, the bike always ripped off good ( for a 2v 750) power and used a little oil. For a motor you want all the power or you are having running issues at lower rpms changing guides are worth the effort.
I wanted more power (didn't see any) and I am a mechanic so I changed mine, I never saw low rpms so driveability below 4000rpm did not matter.