The Great Debate.......at least at my house right now.

[cdc]

........ i would have to teach myself to resist urges one may have.

Resistance is futile.  You will be assimilated! (The BORG)

cdc

[never2loud]

My '04 999 has   124   hp.  Plenty enough to scare you good 

[El Matador]

if i get a bigger monster i would sell the one i have now. however the 999 i didn't really consider becuase i am afraid it might be to big a leap from two katana's to a 695 to a 999. but like someone said the throttle goes both ways. i would have to teach myself to resist urges one may have.

I rode behind you for a little bit on the HC ride. You're a good rider, as long as you keep your big head controlling the little one, you'll be fine on a bigger SBK.

On a twin specially, the transition is a lot easier to handle. Since the power application is progressive and not explosive above 4k, as long as you can control your right wrist, you should be fine. It is not like riding one of the liter I-4's that seem to take off like a rocket ship as soon as you hit 9k revs.

It is actually very important that if you do get a sbk, you go to a track as soon as possible. The novice pace should permit you to gradually explore the bike and increase your comfort level with it in a safe controlled manner. It will make you much more confident with the bike, even if it seems a little counterintuitive to take a bike that you have such little experience with to the track.

Cheers and good luck with whatever you get!

Oh and, james's 999 is looking mighty purdy 

[pipeliner1978]

On a twin specially, the transition is a lot easier to handle. Since the power application is progressive and not explosive above 4k, as long as you can control your right wrist, you should be fine. It is not like riding one of the liter I-4's that seem to take off like a rocket ship as soon as you hit 9k revs.

I don't really understand that, my twins shut down at 9K.  My S4R pulls like a scalded dog from 4K on and shuts down at 8.5-9K.  My R1 is the easier bike to ride, you have to make it go into higher revs to get the "explosiveness".  The 1098s pulls like a mofo, but it shuts down at 10k I think.  I personally think the R1 is as easy to ride as a M600 monster.  A I-4 600 feels slower than a 695 if you ride it under 8K rpms....

That being said, the 1098 is my favorite bike to ride, just gotta remember to ride a gear up until I learn better throttle control.

[El Matador]

I don't really understand that, my twins shut down at 9K.  My S4R pulls like a scalded dog from 4K on and shuts down at 8.5-9K.  My R1 is the easier bike to ride, you have to make it go into higher revs to get the "explosiveness".  The 1098s pulls like a mofo, but it shuts down at 10k I think.

What that says is that the power curve on the twins are linear. You pull nicely from 3.5 k until  you hit the rev limiter at 11k.

On the I-4's you have to get into the higher revs to produce the power, and if you're not prepared for it, the transition between being at 7k and 10k will make you hurt.

I personally think the R1 is as easy to ride as a M600 monster.  A I-4 600 feels slower than a 695 if you ride it under 8K rpms....

That's just not true dude.

Yes, if you keep an I-4 under 8k you're basically lugging the engine, but you've got another 10k before you hit the limiter. If you come into a corner in an I-4 doing 45 at 7k revs and then accelerate through the turn, you're gonna get a nasty surprise when you hit that 8.5k sweet spot and you're wondering why you've just highsided.

[pipeliner1978]

What that says is that the power curve on the twins are linear. You pull nicely from 3.5 k until  you hit the rev limiter at 11k.

On the I-4's you have to get into the higher revs to produce the power, and if you're not prepared for it, the transition between being at 7k and 10k will make you hurt.

That's just not true dude.

Yes, if you keep an I-4 under 8k you're basically lugging the engine, but you've got another 10k before you hit the limiter. If you come into a corner in an I-4 doing 45 at 7k revs and then accelerate through the turn, you're gonna get a nasty surprise when you hit that 8.5k sweet spot and you're wondering why you've just highsided.

we can go around about this all day....I said if you keep it under 8K which, show me a M600 that you can ride above that.  You just said nasty surprise at 8.5K.....last time I checked, 8.5 is higher than 8.  Most people who ride Monsters, or slower twins are only used to riding between 3-8K.  They have to, that's what they're limited to.  I don't see most people getting on a I-4 and riding them harder than they rode their previous bike (at first).  Once you get to or above 8k on an I-4 you would already be riding out of your comfort zone from your old bike (speed wise) that is why I say for a beginner it is just as easy to ride a I-4 as a V2.  If someone jumps on a I-4 and hits a corner at 8k rpms and tries to accelerate through it, they will have the skill level to do it.  Like I said, beginners wont do that, if they do...... well..... they should learn to ride before trying to ride hard.

[bryant8]

I think what El Matador meant was that the twins power band is linear and more predictable whereas the I-4s are usually more top heavy and can explode when you hit the power band.

IMO, comparing engine speed between the twin and I-4 isn't the same.  They have different power pulses, tons of small explosions or fewer big explosions. 

Different bikes for different people

Oh yeah, sorry about the threadjack

[pipeliner1978]

look, I'm speaking from experience only, not what I've heard from other people or read in a magazine or on a forum.  I thought it was odd that he said my statement was simply not true.  Like said, I speak from experience only, I've ridden gsxr 600, r6, gsxr 1000, r1, zx7r, m600, 695, 696, sc1000, ps1000le, s4r, 848, 1098 and a few cruisers.  I'm merely stating my experiences, and if you ride a I-4 under 8k, it will be less torquey and feel easier to ride than a v2 at 8k.  Its also built to handle better and stop more quickly.  Not to mention engine torque, do you know how many times I almost bit asphalt from down shifting into a corner on a v2.... You don't have that problem on a I-4.  Riding a I-4 under 8k is easier on throttle control because you aren't in your peak power like you would be on a v2.  And FYI, there isn't 10k more rpms after 8k.  Most 600's drop off around 14-15.  Even less with the higher cc engines.

[El Matador]

 

[Duc L'Smart]

I've ridden gsxr 600, r6, gsxr 1000, r1, zx7r, m600, 695, 696, sc1000, ps1000le, s4r, 848, 1098 and a few cruisers.

[Cyclone]

 [moto] Wow Chris - the debate at your house is amazing !   [moto]  I mention new motos I would like to have at great peril to my personal safety & always with loss of Kitchen Points (TM) by demerit !  Your woman aware of any of this discussion really ?  If so, I am envious !

[pipeliner1978]

yeah, recognize pregnant doges!!!!

[Slag]

We recognize pregnant doges.

[dallas2r]

We recognize pregnant doges.

[El Matador]

look, I'm speaking from experience only, not what I've heard from other people or read in a magazine or on a forum.  I thought it was odd that he said my statement was simply not true.

I said your statement wasn't true because it isn't. Riding an R1, will never even begin to compare to riding a 600 cc duc. Granted, if you keep from being in the powerband, the R1 wont produce any real amount of HP, but unless you find a way to magically limit the bike to 8K rpm, it is inevitable to go into it. And anybody who buys a motorcycle with the express intent of lugging its engine, is a moron.

Like said, I speak from experience only, I've ridden gsxr 600, r6, gsxr 1000, r1, zx7r, m600, 695, 696, sc1000, ps1000le, s4r, 848, 1098 and a few cruisers.  I'm merely stating my experiences, and if you ride a I-4 under 8k, it will be less torquey and feel easier to ride than a v2 at 8k. 

I speak from experience as well. I have ridden a number of I-4's, from 600 cc bikes to literbikes, including an R1. In fact, my previous bike was indeed a CBR600. So I do know what it takes to ride an I-4 and what the riding experience equates to; and it is NOT the same as in a m600

Not to mention engine torque, do you know how many times I almost bit asphalt from down shifting into a corner on a v2....

Maybe you should practice rev matching, or invest in a lightened flywheel. You'll see a world of difference with the engine braking, which isn't a bad thing IMHO. Engine braking allows you to have more control over how much speed you're carrying, and used properly, can be a very useful tool.

You don't have that problem on a I-4.  Riding a I-4 under 8k is easier on throttle control because you aren't in your peak power like you would be on a v2. 

If you're going to get an I-4, just to ride it under 8K, just get a twin. It is just plain ridiculous to try to compare the power produced at the same engine speeds between both bikes. They're meant to be ridden differently and if you ride a bike any differently than you should because you don't feel comfortable on it, you have no business being on that bike.

we can go around about this all day....I said if you keep it under 8K which, show me a M600 that you can ride above that.

Why would you need to?

And FYI, 600 monsters top out at 10.2 K

You just said nasty surprise at 8.5K.....last time I checked, 8.5 is higher than 8. 

And your point with this is?

Most people who ride Monsters, or slower twins are only used to riding between 3-8K.  They have to, that's what they're limited to.  I don't see most people getting on a I-4 and riding them harder than they rode their previous bike (at first). 

That's funny, really. When you change a motorcycle because you're looking for something with more power, you ARE going to try and ride the new bike past the limitations of the old one, that's why you got it in the first place.

Once you get to or above 8k on an I-4 you would already be riding out of your comfort zone from your old bike (speed wise) that is why I say for a beginner it is just as easy to ride a I-4 as a V2. 

See above. The fact that you're advocating getting a full on I-4 literbike as a beginner bike because it doesn't produce any quantifiable amount of power outside the powerband is ridiculous.

If someone jumps on a I-4 and hits a corner at 8k rpms and tries to accelerate through it, they will have the skill level to do it.  Like I said, beginners wont do that, if they do...... well..... they should learn to ride before trying to ride hard.