New Bill for Loud Motorcycles

[EvilSteve]

Ironically, Peter Vallone is my council member and I voted for him. 

Composing email now...

Dear Sir,

It has come to my attention that you are proposing new legislation relating to the enforcement of EPA laws for motorcycle exhaust systems.

As a motorcyclist I actually do not support the commonly held belief that "loud pipes save lives", I do, however, find the intended application of the proposed legislation to be a little offensive.

It concerns me that there is a trend toward the introduction of legislation that singles out particular communities of people.

My objection to this legislation is that it should apply to *any* vehicle, not just motorcycles. I too am annoyed and irritated by loud motorcycles being ridden past my apartment at all hours but I'm equally irritated by the passing car with an obnoxiously loud exhaust system. I am also woken up by the garbage truck that comes by my building at 3am and is louder than just about anything else. If the intent of this legislation is to reinforce the EPA's intent then should it not be applied across the board rather than singling out only one of the applicable groups in question?

Perhaps I'm being cynical but legislation attempting to enforce EPA rules being only introduced for one type of vehicle suggests that there is a lack of objectivity and I can help feeling a little bitter and unrepresented by my council member when my concerns aren't being addressed.

The irony here is that I voted for you councilman, I'm hoping you'll at least respond and address my concerns.

Regards

[Howie]

The bill has been taken off Thursday's agenda, temporary reprieve.

[He Man]

 

[2001cromo]

Dan,
That's very well written!

I completely agree with any law should be for all, not some specific...

I also think that this councilman may try to use the excuse that "non stock" exhausts emit more pollution.... seeing as he is pro bono counel to C.H.O.K.E.


Regardless this is clearly not the last or end of this. And I'm only gratefull that they've done such a pitiful job, but they will get smarter. And I also firmly believe this is solely against motorcycles.

[EvilSteve]

Thanks Terry. You're right about the emissions angle but the argument is the same (as I'm sure you realize).

There seem to be many laws springing up around the country only referring to motorcycles and motorcyclists. We're our own worst enemies it seems but that doesn't mean we should be singled out with laws that allow no leeway.

A loud, polluting exhaust is loud and polluting no matter what it's attached to.

[Airborne]

Pollution seems to be relative. Yeah the bike may not meet emissions but it may get like 50 mpg as opposed to the Humvee which gets 12mpg and meets emission standards. I'm sure I may be missing something here but that's the way I'm thinking about it.

[EvilSteve]

I'm pretty sure the Hummers all get exemptions because they're classed as trucks...

Irrespective of whether bikes are more or less polluting, there are different metrics, we're still held to a certain level by the EPA rules. There's no turning back the clock on pollution or noise regs.

[2001cromo]

I copied the below from another board.  I friggin hate these cheesedicks! 
The only chance we have at this point is writing our council members and trying to get this stopped.


THIS BILL IS NOT DEAD!!!!!

From the NYC Motorcyclists list:

I just spoke with Council member Leroy Comrie, who had a news
conference on the steps of City Hall today about 416A.  The bill is
NOT dead.  Gerson and others are expecting it to come up for a vote on
January 7th during the first Council session of the new year.  Comrie
says lobbying by bikers of individual Council members may have
persuaded a few to take their names off the bill but there's still a
good (or more appropriately bad) chance that this bill will pass.

Gerson issued this statement today:

"December 22, 2008 - Council Member Alan Gerson proudly stands by his
noise reduction legislation which will authorize the NYPD to issue
tickets to motorcycles with straight pipes, thereby requiring
motorcyclists to obtain exhaust systems that comply with federal
decibel limits. The office has received many complaints from
constituents concerning excessively loud motorcycles. The law only
closes a loophole, which currently enables a small group of riders to
disrupt the quality of life in the community at large.  Illegally
equipped motorcycles can emit noise in the 120 decibel range,
constituting a significant quality of life problem for our citizens.
Though regulations currently exist, they are almost impossible to
enforce because the offending vehicles are usually gone before
enforcement action can be taken.  In testimony at the bill’s second
hearing by the NYC Council Public Safety Committee, the NYPD’s
Assistant Commissioner of Intergovernmental Affairs, Susan Petito,
said, “We applaud Council Member Gerson and his staff for identifying
an ingenious approach to this problem, and we’re pleased to work with
the Council in developing this bill.”  The bill is expected to be
signed into law in February, 2009, after which, motorcyclists with
illegal pipes will have 90 days to replace them with Environmental
Protection Agency-stamped pipes. Nothing in the proposed law imposes
greater restrictions on motorcyclists than do the existing federal
regulations."

This bill is like closing a "loophole" with a nuclear weapon.  Almost
no one knew of the hearings on it, those who showed up to speak for
the biker community were not effective at making their case and the
supporters of the bill are confident that they'll win.

I believe that arguing "loud pipes save lives" won't cut it.  The
point, to me, is that perfectly legal bikes will be impounded and
probably damaged in the process, police will have a huge weapon to
threaten bikers with regardless of any real or perceived infraction,
riders from outside NYC are likely to be unwitting victims of Gerson's
vendetta and the law already allows for enforcement of noise
restrictions.

The only route open now is to contact each and every member of the
City Council and urge them to vote against this bill.

[Ferrell75002]

Yeah, this sucks and I am sure it will get passed which is BS, but things happen. My question is, Is anyone here actually going to change back to their stock pipes ? Will this stop you from buying an aftermarket exhaust ? Just curious as to what people's plans are if this thing gets passed.
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[GLantern]

I don't live in the city but it would not stop me from buying new exhaust if i wanted to.  I'm pretty sure my stock exhaust does not have an EPA stamp on it anyways. 

[FLSTFI_E46]

My question is, Is anyone here actually going to change back to their stock pipes ? Will this stop you from buying an aftermarket exhaust ? Just curious as to what people's plans are if this thing gets passed.
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I currently have stocks pipes on all my bikes.  The only one I'm thinking of changing to high performance pipes is for the 749 since I'll be tracking it during the 2009 season.  In any case, I live outside the city and I try to avoid riding in/through the city since it's no fun at all for me.

[Howie]

Yeah, this sucks and I am sure it will get passed which is BS, but things happen. My question is, Is anyone here actually going to change back to their stock pipes ? Will this stop you from buying an aftermarket exhaust ? Just curious as to what people's plans are if this thing gets passed.
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Write your City Council Member and Kathleen Quinn.  It may not help, but it can't hurt.  Here is the letter I wrote:

Dear Councilman Vacca,

I am writing you about my concerns over the "loud motorcycle pipes" (NYC Bill 416A) bill.  On the surface this sounds like a great idea, but in reality it is not.  New York State already has noise regulations for motorcycles that are not being enforced, probably because the City would need to buy equipment and train officers how to use it.  There are many legal motorcycles that would not meet the letter of the law, including vintage bikes or custom pipes that have polished the EPA markings off.  Also some motorcyclists modify their factory systems to increase noise levels, but these systems do have markings, therefore, by the new legislation, would be legal.

This new law would also be discriminatory, since the same is not being enforced on other motorized vehicles, even though the same problem does exist with cars and trucks.  The penalties are also quite ridiculous, for instance, punishment equal to DWAI and more harsh than for running a red light.  If you own a car with loud exhaust you get a minimal equipment violation, fix it, there is no fine.

Yes, I do ride a motorcycle.  Yes, the bike would be illegal under the new law.  Yet I get positive comments from my neighbors because the bike is quiet.  I am a 62 year old responsible rider.

Please vote down this money making scheme so I can happily vote for you again.

Sincerely,

Howard I Lepzelter

The same letter was sent to Kathleen Quinn, without the voting part since I don't get to vote for her.

[EvilSteve]

Nice email Howie.

Personally I think people will start having EPA stuff stamped on whatever they want. Think about it, you can have someone make you straight pipes for your HD & stamp with an EPA rating at the same time, bingo, it's legal.

Reactionary legislation made by people who have no understanding of what they're doing. I think really loud bikes should be fined & have to be fixed but this legislation, has Howie rightly put it, would fine people irrespective of the actual volume. Stock 1098 pipes are 102 db, where does that leave these people? The make it sound like it's meant to target open pipes only but that's BS & we all know it. It's just another way for the police to harass motorcyclists, some deserving of course but many definitely not.

[Pakhan]

Yeah, this sucks and I am sure it will get passed which is BS, but things happen. My question is, Is anyone here actually going to change back to their stock pipes ? Will this stop you from buying an aftermarket exhaust ? Just curious as to what people's plans are if this thing gets passed.
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I will be writing to my council person and see what sticks.  If it doesn't then I will just have both my current aftermarket exhausts EPA stamped somehow.  I'm sure I will find a way, just like I have with so many other silly required documentation.  It's amazing how simple it is to forge some things.

[Ferrell75002]

Not sure if this has been posted, but here is a link to the original proposal : http://webdocs.nyccouncil.info/attachments/86212.htm

Also these are the main folks that are sponsoring this :

*Brewer, Gale A.
*Como, Anthony
*Garodnick, Daniel
*Gennaro, James F.
*Gentile, Vincent J.
*Gerson, Alan J.
*Koppell, G. Oliver
*Liu, John C.
*Martinez, Miguel
*Nelson, Michael C.
*Vallone, Jr., Peter F.
*Yassky, David

Sorry if this is old new to some of you.

I am all for getting a EPA stamp, but I will be amazed how they would be able to do that on a carbon exhaust like the termi's. Also are all cop's going to be trained to know the difference between the pipes are ? Or i wonder if the are just going to wing it.
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