GUN STUFF

[Goat_Herder]

Great feedback, guys!  Yes, I would agree that nothing beats a shotgun in home defense.  The mere sound of cocking the gun would strike fear in anybody.    A 9mm would be a good ballance between having protection, fun at the range, and compact in size (relatively to a rifle/shotgun) that the Wife would not be freakin' out about.  

@dropstharockalot:  I have shot a few at the local range and am planning on trying out a few more, based on availability and recommendation from the guy behind the counter.  I think it's just like motorcycles - they may appear similar on paper, but you won't know what it feels like when you actually try them out and get a feel for it.

@fastwin: very good point.  Having some training would be benefitial.  I am a pretty good shot and have a pretty tight grouping at 10-15 yrds.  But that's under calm and controlled environment.  I will look into some additional gun training (world is ending in 11 months so that might come in handy  ).  

I also will take a safety class.  Learn things the proper way and get in good habits.  As for conceal weapon permit for carrying...  Is that necessary?  the gun shop guy recommended getting one, just to have it.  It would come in handy later?  Thoughts?

[fastwin]

Good stuff Goat Herder! I don't care who you are or how good you are (or think you are) professional training and purposeful practice helps everyone! No offense at all but you may indeed be a good shot but you might have some bad habits that could potentially get you in trouble. A good instructor can spot those areas and clean up your act. Immediate action drills are very important to learn and practice. As long as you learn and practice the proper technique. Tactical magazine changes, clearing stove pipe jams, double feed jams, etc... in the dark. Correct, safe and legal use of a firearm for home defense is more complicated than most people think.

Also, a good instructor will teach you how to plan out a defense strategy for your home or work place. Similar to a safety plan in case of fire. Where does everyone go? Do they stay in their rooms or go to a central safe zone? Do you live in a stand alone house or an apartment with neighbors on the other side of that 1/2" sheet rock wall? You have to consider over penetration as a safety issue. The list goes on forever. Have a pro help through all of it. Being a good shot is just tip of the iceberg.

Sorry for the novel length post. Not trying to sound like Mr. Know It All here. But it's just a lot to consider and think about and way too many people think just buying a gun and some ammo and watching Top Shot on TV makes them good to go. If you are going to do it then do it right.

[DRKWNG]

Sell the dog...

Fail

[fastwin]

OK, you're right. Never sell the dog. But you have to agree from a pro's point of view that proper training from a good instructor helps everyone... even the dog! I went back and took selling the dog out!

[DRKWNG]

proper training from a good instructor helps everyone...

Word! 

Just don't sell the dog.

[fastwin]

Yeah, I changed it to honey badger.

[dropstharockalot]

@dropstharockalot:  I have shot a few at the local range and am planning on trying out a few more, based on availability and recommendation from the guy behind the counter.  I think it's just like motorcycles - they may appear similar on paper, but you won't know what it feels like when you actually try them out and get a feel for it.

Exactly.  I was able to rule out a couple more today... they looked like they fit the bill sitting there in the cabinet, but when I fired them I had a much better idea of whether I'd have a prayer of operating it under pressure.

[WarrenJ]

A 9mm I saw recently impressed me a bit.  It was a Zastava EZ9 - basically a Sig 226 clone with a light rail.  EAA was importing them but has discontinued them in their line.  They are still being manufactured by Zastava in Serbia and they are looking for a new importer.  The gun is like a Sig made in a tractor factory.  It is very solid and well built, a little bulky but at one dealer I was at, they were selling for $339 new in the box.  I thought it was a darn good value for a heavy duty 9mm.  It wouldn't be ideal for concealed carry, but for a house gun or fun gun it looked pretty good.  The reviews seem pretty positive on them also. 

[fastwin]

I haven't heard of those. I'll have to keep an eye out for one. Not that I need one but looking at guns is still free and always interesting.

[ducatiz]

A 9mm I saw recently impressed me a bit.  It was a Zastava EZ9 - basically a Sig 226 clone with a light rail.  EAA was importing them but has discontinued them in their line.  They are still being manufactured by Zastava in Serbia and they are looking for a new importer.  The gun is like a Sig made in a tractor factory.  It is very solid and well built, a little bulky but at one dealer I was at, they were selling for $339 new in the box.  I thought it was a darn good value for a heavy duty 9mm.  It wouldn't be ideal for concealed carry, but for a house gun or fun gun it looked pretty good.  The reviews seem pretty positive on them also. 

Yugo/Serbian guns are all like that.  They made that M76 rifle that I want so badly (and I have a buttload of 8mm in cans...).. they make a lot of CZ clones under license.  it would be great if they got an importer.

years ago Sarco had a Zastava "Manda" which was a 50 BMG "sniper" rifle.. it was basically a piece of polished sewer pipe and a pistol grip. 

[WarrenJ]

I had an importer license for a while - what a PITA!

[ducatiz]

I had an importer license for a while - what a PITA!

Regular firearms or anything more interesting?

I'd love to do that, but to make it work you have to really be in the business rather than a side deal.

[WarrenJ]

I set up a deal with Kynoch in England to import their brass cases for the antique Blackpowder cartridges like the 577-450 Martini Henry and the 577 Snider.  The permit I had to get would have allowed me to import anything up to attack helicopters and non-nuclear submarines. 

I got one order in, sold them all right away, was putting together the second order when a US company said they were going to be producing that brass and all my orders were cancelled overnight. 

Another one of life's little learning experiences.

[ducatiz]

I set up a deal with Kynoch in England to import their brass cases for the antique Blackpowder cartridges like the 577-450 Martini Henry and the 577 Snider.  The permit I had to get would have allowed me to import anything up to attack helicopters and non-nuclear submarines. 

I got one order in, sold them all right away, was putting together the second order when a US company said they were going to be producing that brass and all my orders were cancelled overnight. 

Another one of life's little learning experiences.

Well, that was a tiny niche product you know.

There are plenty of funky little gun companies overseas that would love to sell in the US.  Turkey and Italy have dozens of companies that don't have official reps here.  Sphinx in Switzerland still doesn't....    Korth of Germany...  Breda is represented by the Beretta importer but they don't bring any good stuff here.

[Goat_Herder]

Thanks all for your suggestions on what to look for in my first handgun (9mm).  I did some more research on Friday, with the aid of a friend.  I narrowed my list down to 4 guns, due to review and price point (I was forced to throw in an odd one) and we went out to the range on Saturday.  Between the 2 of us, we went thru 300 rounds.  Needless to say, fun was had by all.

1. first up was the Glock 19.  Since everyone suggested Glock as a first gun, I picked it to be the benchmark that all others will be compared to.  It's light in my hand (too light, in fact) and felt really "blocky".  The trigger is a bit weird...  I would pull half way and feel some resistance.  Had to squeeze a bit to fire.  That had me anticipate the recoil and threw off my aim a bit.  I was not as accurate as I liked.  Recoil was a bit harsh...  oh and the magazine is plastic, too?  It's as if I am holding a bb gun.

2.  Switched to a FNP-9.  It has a polymer main part with a metal slider.  It feels good in my hand but feel top heavy.  A bit awkward.  I really want to like this guy but the trigger pull and the way it's balanced in my hand had all the shots off target, on the low side.  Grouping is tighter than the Glock but I am consistently shot low.  A bit disappointing.

3.  Sig P250 was supposed to be next (for price reason) but was veto'ed for a P229.  My buddy didn't like the P250 for some reason.  Plus P229 is the gun Jason Bourne uses so it must be good???  Anyway, the gun feels great in my hand and fires well.  I think I like the extra weight of an all-steel gun.  With a little more mass in my hand, my aim is more steady and less muzzel lift.  Cool extra feature like the lever to uncock the hammer.  Very good grouping with my shots.

4.  CZ75b is the last one up, due to the suggestion from this board.  My buddy didn't know too much about it but we chose it over the HK for the price.  What the heck, it wouldn't hurt to try.  It's the heaviest of all the gun we tried - all steel + full size.  I really like how it feels in my hand.  I don't know what's with this gun, I am deadly accruate with it.  at 30 feet, 10 shots are within the size of a credit card.  My buddy also had better results with it.  I would contribute some to its easy trigger pull.  Perhaps being the longest of all the guns...

In the end, the dark horse came in to surprise us.  I think I am liking the CZ75 more and more as I continue to read reviews on various guns.  What are your thoughts?  Are my feedback in line with your experience?