Bianca aka. my take on the 2V SBK

[junior varsity]

No idea yet.   Will post up as soon as I know

[TAftonomos]

Cut/Weld.  Much easier than re-machining the cases, and will accomplish the same thing.  Use the pivot bolt for a jig, grind away slowly till it's centered up and a tight fit with the frame and weld it.

The 999 cases have the eccentric bit there (as you know), so this isn't an issue. 

I'm using the DS1100 motor, with a set of machined eccentric "washers" that will locate the swingarm pivot securely in the frame.

[The Mad King Pepe']

Cut/Weld.  Much easier than re-machining the cases, and will accomplish the same thing.  Use the pivot bolt for a jig, grind away slowly till it's centered up and a tight fit with the frame and weld it.

I will need to narrow the cases for the 996 swingarm to fit, and that is not a problem for me. I will also need to do some cutting/welding with the frame's X-brace to make clearance for the carbs.

The only thing that took me by surprise is the (mis) alignment of the swingarm axle, but it can be (reliably) fixed with a little cut &  weld, I'm definitely going that way.

Thanks to all for the replies, btw!

[The Mad King Pepe']

Still kicking (myself), this is what's currently holding up the works:




Lesson learned: if you want to do this GET A FU**ING 999/749 FRAME! this page here http://www.ducati.ms/forums/57-supersport/67691-my-new-supersport-superbike-project-2.html shows how much easier it is.

[junior varsity]

If you check my old threads, i met the same problem.


I was going to stick my spare 900 motor directly into my 748 frame.  No dice.

Here's what I've learned:

1) Crankcases can come up cheap on eBay or at a plethora of shops around the country.

2) Hypermotard crankcases look like a direct fit, and while properly narrower at the swingarm pivot holes (unlike the Monster crankcases) they are not at the right height, just as shown in the Monster-width crankcases in your picture above.

3) 916 cases, obviously, will fit in the frame. The cylinder/head stud spacing is also the same as the M/SS 900 too (so very likely that you could migrate parts).

4) 996/998/749/999 crankcases will fit in the frame.  The cylinder/head stud spacing is also the same as a M1000/1100, Hyper 1100, MTS 1100 (I bought some base gaskets to verify this), so it may/should be possible to migrate the internals into those cases. This is what I have chosen to do.

996R/998R/999R (and perhaps the later deep sump 999's too) and the 848/1098/1198 have a third style cylinder/head stud spacing, so I am not aware of any 2v cylinders/heads that would drop onto those cases yet.

The other option is to drill the swingarm pivot hole into an oval and be good to go, though I believe there would be less structural integrity than if it was purposefully built the correct way.   That said, the 999R WSBK crankcases (which were also sandcast) had the swingarm pivot hole oval-shaped right off the bat, that allowed the teams to use various "keys" in the frames to locate the pivot at different heights to change geometry and thereby increase traction.

Example of 999R WSBK cases with oval'ed hole:



Example of frame's alternate height swingarm-pivot locating keys, from Ducati Kaemna:



"Centrical Plate for Swingarm Fulcrum"




hopefully this helps some and restores hope!

[The Mad King Pepe']

If you check my old threads, i met the same problem.

Yea, I spent my lunch break doing some reading on the .ms forum and saw your thread and another guy who put a 2v engine in a 999 frame. Wish I had found & read those before, I would have just bought a 999 frame instead and my life would be much easier now.

1) Crankcases can come up cheap on eBay or at a plethora of shops around the country.

3) 916 cases, obviously, will fit in the frame. The cylinder/head stud spacing is also the same as the M/SS 900 too (so very likely that you could migrate parts).

I'm already looking at a pair of 916 cases on eBay, and considering swapping internals. My main concern with that is migrating all the parts: what will fit, what will not, when will I find out that something doesn't fit?

The other option is to drill the swingarm pivot hole into an oval and be good to go, though I believe there would be less structural integrity than if it was purposefully built the correct way.   That said, the 999R WSBK crankcases (which were also sandcast) had the swingarm pivot hole oval-shaped right off the bat, that allowed the teams to use various "keys" in the frames to locate the pivot at different heights to change geometry and thereby increase traction.

I really don't like the idea of ovaling the the swingarm axle hole, reliability is a big deal for me: a bike I can't trust is worthless to me. Besides I think it would make more sense to cut off the bottom of the SBK frame and get rid of the holes. Basically end up with something similar to the S*r Monster frame.

hopefully this helps some and restores hope!

Thanks for the support, much appreciated! However, according to my wife, I'm too stubborn to give up, so that won't be an issue.

[TAftonomos]

Those eccentrics look nice, but at least to my eye they won't work with the 2V swap (at least not in my case).  The pivot point isn't located in the center of the eccentric.

Also...ovaling the case holes isn't going to affect reliability (if done correctly!)  Then again, to do it correctly you've got to pull the cases apart, which will end up costing you at least 1500 to put it back together...

I'd love to sell you my frame (btw, I gave you the wrong price, $900 with, $800 w/o), but if I were you I'd just hack off the bottom part of the frame and run it like a monster frame.

Get yourself a 1000ds arm, get the billet valve cover/shock mount from kamna, and go!

[The Mad King Pepe']

Also...ovaling the case holes isn't going to affect reliability (if done correctly!)  Then again, to do it correctly you've got to pull the cases apart, which will end up costing you at least 1500 to put it back together...

I'd love to sell you my frame (btw, I gave you the wrong price, $900 with, $800 w/o), but if I were you I'd just hack off the bottom part of the frame and run it like a monster frame.

Get yourself a 1000ds arm, get the billet valve cover/shock mount from kamna, and go!

I already have a 996 swingarm and wheels, so I'd rather keep those. I have thought about just cutting off the bottom of the frame, but I think it would take away stiffness from the whole. BTW, do you know if a 996 swingarm & shock will fit a 999 frame?

[TAftonomos]

Swingarm, yes.  Shock can be made to work fairly inexpensively.

[ChrisH]

why not cut off the mounts on the frame and have a shop reweld it at the correct position for you? seems like the simpler solution to me, unless I'm missing something?

[Artful]

Massimo, might have a welding contact for you.

[The Mad King Pepe']

why not cut off the mounts on the frame and have a shop reweld it at the correct position for you? seems like the simpler solution to me, unless I'm missing something?

Just a couple weeks of grief... 

I've checked with a few local shops, but I haven't found one that is capable (needs a jig) and willing to do the work. Otherwise, yes it would be the best solution.

Massimo, might have a welding contact for you.

Beer shall flow un-impeded!

[Speeddog]

Unless I'm mistaken by what's in the picture, the jig is already installed.

[Artful]

Unless I'm mistaken by what's in the picture, the jig is already installed.

Bingo.

[He Man]

^^ just show it to a good fabricator and he'll make it cake. just make sure you dont modify it to the point where you cant remove the side cases without droping the motor.