VW Passat 2000 Crapping Out. Need a small car - Honda Fit or Toyota Yaris.

[MikeZ]

Saw a Fit that got rear ended by a full size pick-up and the Fit did not hold up at all.  Driver got flown to shock-trauma.
Fit was stopped to turn left.  Pick-up came over the hill in the snow and couldn't stop in time.  Hit it at about 30MPH and it was ugly.

[Bladecutter]

AB,

Why don't you like the Fiat?

My gf just bought one back on my b-day (Sept 3rd), and we drove it back from Fort Worth to Denver to enjoy it here in the mountains.

It has free maintenance for the first 36k miles, (free oil changes every 4k now using regular conv oil), also includes any parts listed in the owners manual for servicing, so you get free oil filters, free air filter, free brake pads, free rotors, and a free clutch if you wear it out in that first 36k miles. Yes, I said a free clutch.

It has a 4 year/50k mile warranty for the drive train, and bumper to bumper.
It has 4 years unlimited mile roadside assistance.

The timing belt isn't due until the 9 year/152k mile mark.

Other than that, there really isn't much else in the car, other than a whole lot of style and fun.
Great little city car, and a fantastically comfortable highway car.

Don't tell FIAT, but it handles great at HPR, too.

BC.

[ab]

AB,

Why don't you like the Fiat?
....
Don't tell FIAT, but it handles great at HPR, too.

BC.

Oh, I love the Fiat.  I grew up around Fiat the old 70's model and 80's - 600, 131, 130 etc.
I rented the 500 in LA during a visit this summer and drove the crap out of it and loved every minute of it.

I just can't afford it in the long run :-(   Despite all the free maintaince, I just don't know what it will cost down the line after that.  Maybe I need to do more homework on it.  How many miles has your gf put in it yet ?  Any issues?

ahhh...wet floor syndrome eh?....most likely due to a lack of servicing of the drains for the crud that builds up in the battery and brake power booster well....sunroof drains need to be serviced annually also...but the front cowl area is much more likely....so you need a comfort control module and maybe a TCM if it is an automatic due to water flowing through that box and down the harness into the car...which during that process means terminal pins are corroded and in need of replacement also...and more than a few of them are gold plated that turned green...

but I am just speculating based on what I have seen from customers here at our dealership when they short change themselves trying to save a buck or few in the servicing of their vehicle when things that we do are left unattended and cost them more money down the road....

That is exactly what happened.  Somehow water drained into the electric system under the driver seat and they are corroding.

Not sure what i should do ?  Is it expensive to fix the terminal pins ?  etc you mention

What maintenance should i have done on the sunroof etc?  Any etc info you can give me I would be grateful.  PM me plz.

[zooom]

sent you a PM...

[Bladecutter]

Oh, I love the Fiat.  I grew up around Fiat the old 70's model and 80's - 600, 131, 130 etc.
I rented the 500 in LA during a visit this summer and drove the crap out of it and loved every minute of it.

I just can't afford it in the long run :-(   Despite all the free maintenance, I just don't know what it will cost down the line after that.  Maybe I need to do more homework on it.  How many miles has your gf put in it yet ?  Any issues?

I don't think its going to be a very expensive vehicle down the line.
Its really well built, and for such a small looking car, but its extremely large feeling inside.

She has around 2500 miles on hers so far, as her commute to and from work is about 9 miles the direct route, and about 15 miles if she takes the long way home (which she usually does, because its more fun).

Problems?

Well, if you call the rear washer nozzle that dribbles a bit of fluid down the window a problem, we have that.
Waiting on a new washer nozzle to arrive at our dealer right now.
They had a TSB for the OBDII port, where they had to remove and throw away the plastic cover because the car they sent to CARB for testing didn't have the cover on that car, so all the other ones sold in the US had to have the cover tossed to meet the regs. Idiotic to throw away a cover for that reason.

Other than that, the car has been flawless. Almost 2 full months now, too.
She's way happier with it than the Crossfire she traded in for it.
Now that thing was a nightmare to deal with.
She traded it in before the warranty ran out on it. She was not going to own that car out of warranty, no matter what.

As for future costs on the Fiat, I really don't see much.
It uses regular conventional oil, and there's only about 4 quarts of it in the engine. Just needs to meet the normal API spec, nothing fancy. 4 spark plugs, that if I remember correctly, get replaced on a regular basis. I will check the Owners Manual when I get home tonight. It has long life coolant, hers has a manual transmission, 4 wheel disc brakes, and I really don't see it being a life sucking wallet vampire in the long run.

The most major "bugs" reported on the forum were the clock that runs fast (new reflash should fix that), two people have reported having had major build quality issues with early VIN's. One was a seam in the front passenger side that didn't seem to be built well that let water into the cabin during monsoon season earlier this year on the east coast, and the other was that their hatch looked like it was dropped during install, and had a minor crease in the metal in one spot.

There's one more guy who's been pregnant doging up a storm about his car being in the shop most of the time since he bought it, but all he wants to do is pregnant dog about Fiat Canada not wanting to hand him a brand new car right here and now instead of letting them troubleshoot the problem and resolve the source so that they can prevent it from happening to anyone else. Oddly enough, he's Canadian, and in Canada, there isn't a Lemon Law like there is in the US, so he can't just force Fiat Canada to replace his vehicle.

Instead, he's gone on a rampage to badmouth Fiat everywhere he can, and now it seems his dealer techs are taking their sweet time in finding the source of the electrical gremlins. Just to get him to tell us what the problem was with his car was like pulling teeth. Sounds like a badly constructed wiring harness between the PCM and the body of the car to the bulk of us.

But, most of the reports of the car have been nothing but good times from the bulk of the online owners.

BC.

[ab]

Bladecutter - thanks for the feedback. I appreciate that.  I am so tempted to get the basic version purely from price perspective.  I wonder how it will perform in snow conditions.  Where exactly is the fiat forum?  Maybe I need to lurk around and research it.

[Bladecutter]

Two primary Fiat forums:

http://www.fiat500owners.com/forum/index.php

This is the one that seems to be more user oriented, with everyone chatting about all the wonderful things they love doing to their cars.

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/forum.php

This one, however, seems to be more technical, though not by much.
It was created by a guy with a long standing direct connection to Fiat, and tends to have in depth knowledge, TSB's, and repair information available quicker than the previous forum.

And now that I have the owners manual in front of me, at the 32k mile mark, you need to replace the spark plugs.
Every 16k miles, you inspect the engine air filter, and replace the cabin air filter.
The manual says to inspect the PCV valve, and replace if needed, at 96k miles.
Finally, at 152k miles, you get to replace the timing belt and the coolant.

Honestly, when it comes to choosing which version to get, I highly recommend driving all the versions available at your dealer, and deciding which one provides the biggest smile. The Pop and the Lounge have the same suspension and brakes, but the Lounge is Auto Only in the US. The Sport has a stiffer suspension, and might be exactly what you're looking for, or might make you hate the car. The interiors are all completely different from each other.

As for snow, the European cars have been reported to be sure footed little cars.
There have only been a couple reports from NA owners to have hit snow yet, and no one has anything bad to say about it yet. We will know soon enough, as another storm is hitting Denver tonight.

BC.

[zooom]

AB....honestly, if you are afraid of the maintenance on any car, whether it be your current Passat ( which I still think there is a level of a lack of maintenance that left you in your current condition with that car) or a new 500 or a Fit or a Yaris...they ALL require maintenance...and if it is because of parts availability...you own a Ducati...parts supply chain what?....if it is because of what you might be able to do or not do on your own...ain't nothing to it but to do it...maybe buy a special tool or few...but, hey, it's the price you pay sometimes....if it is the overall cost of maintenance or convenience...sounds like to me, you need to just buy a new car every year or 2, trading in the old while still fully warrantied and let others worry about it all later on...either way...there is no maintenance free car nowadays!

[Howie]

I think I got a "revised maintenance schedule" for my '04 VWs about three years ago.  The revision was to periodically check the roof drains. 

Our son had a Golf.  When it rained the interior of the car flooded.  He brought it to the local dealer.  The dealer spent two hours on the car and found nothing.  All VW dealers are not as good as yours, Zoom.  I unclogged the drains and all was good.  Circumcising the tips on the drain tubes helps prevent future problems.

[ducatiz]

I think I got a "revised maintenance schedule" for my '04 VWs about three years ago.  The revision was to periodically check the roof drains. 

Our son had a Golf.  When it rained the interior of the car flooded.  He brought it to the local dealer.  The dealer spent two hours on the car and found nothing.  All VW dealers are not as good as yours, Zoom.  I unclogged the drains and all was good.  Circumcising the tips on the drain tubes helps prevent future problems.

circumcising the drains.. lol.. i didn't know you were a mohel too!

I figured out the problem before VW did.. I used a high pressure nozzle on the hole at the top.. a few blasts and then a spray of wd40, then another blast and it was good for another 6-10 months.  the wd40 gives just enough lube to keep the lips of the tube from sealing up

[ducatiz]

Bought a Hyundai Elantra in April.  Nice car for the money, good mileage too.

Also the Kia Forte esp the 5 door, same frame as the Elantra. 

Amazing reviews on them.

http://www.dieselstation.com/cars/kia-forte-5-door-hatchback-2011-a2624.html
http://www.thecarconnection.com/overview/kia_forte_2011

I really like Kia.  I hope they bring the diesels to the states.  they aren't talking about it, but sheesh, they would blow out the other models. 

Smaller than the Passat but Kia does a good job of spacing things and using small space efficiently.