techno-incompetence (or how I learned to ignore reality)...

[sno_duc]

This. ^^^

Add to it that they were flying on instruments and one of their major instruments (airspeed indicator) was gone and you can see where they got into trouble.

Add to it where they thought they were in an autopilot mode where the plane couldn't stall (they weren't) and there's your disaster right there.

I remember from flight training how they drill into you to have an almost Pavlovian response to the stall horn doing off (nose down and full power now!)

Seems like these guys lost that response...

When I took my private practical (flying part) test, my power on stall recovery was vigorous as in pushed the nose over so hard we were weightless for a second and then nailed 63 knots (best rate). The thing I remember most was the simulated engine failure, went thru the check list, of course the engine would not restart with the mixture pulled by the examiner. Then he asked "Which field are you going for??" 'That one' "You'll never make it, it's to close." Ever seen a full flaps, full rudder slip in a 152? You come down like a rock. He made me ride it down to about 100 ' agl before he shoved the mixture back in.

This examiner started flying before WW II, flew B-17's, retired from United as a 747 captain, and in retirement worked part time as an examiner for the FAA. Was a real prick, busted one of our instuctors down to private because he did a procedure turn to the wrong side while on a ATP check ride. Poor guy had to retest for his commercil, CFI, CFII, multi-engine, etc. One my check ride during a steep turn he asked what the OAT was.

[the_Journeyman]

I remember from flight training how they drill into you to have an almost Pavlovian response to the stall horn doing off (nose down and full power now!)

Seems like these guys lost that response...

This. Stall?  Point down and try to refire engines/gain enough airspeed to stay in the air.

JM

[MendoDave]

exactly why I hate things like that on cars:  first it starts with the lights.  now they have cars that brake for you if you're too close.

I have to say My car has this thing called "Brake assist" and I always thought it sounded dumb. Surly I could press a little harder on the brakes if I needed to.

Well the other night I was driving on the freeway about 65 or 70 and a deer came out. I did a panic brake to avoid hitting said deer and I figured I was going to hit it anyway around 25 or 30 by the time I got it slowed down.

So anyway I hit the brakes hard and a fraction of a second later I was thrown into the  seatbelts as a whole bunch of extra force was added to to the brakes to slow the car way faster than I possibly could have. It almost felt like the car might do a stoppie. It didn't of course. While this extra braking was going on, I felt the ABS work lighting fast on at least three separate wheels momentarily, and the stability control kept the car straight the whole time.

I missed hitting that deer by a good thirty feet.
That computer did stuff that no human could possibly do. It was amazing. I'm a believer in "Brake assist" now.

Here is what wiki has to say about it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_Brake_Assist

[Drunken Monkey]

I have nothing wrong with machines taking over in a panic situation and dealing with it.

I have a big problem with machines taking over in ordinary situations (like radar-based braking, no-stall planes that decide to become yes-stall planes, and "take that corner entry as fast as you want to try to, I'll slow you down") as it lulls you into complacency.

Or "fly by wire is fine as long as you know how to still fly when the wire is broken"

[ungeheuer]

^^ This .