Inane ramblings to avoid thread jacking

[SaltLick]

i know who the hell cares....but ive always downshifted and let out the clutch when coming to a stop and i learned how to blip the throttle when downshifting years ago so now i do it without thinking about it. I dont think at this point i could NOT blip the throttle when downshifting. and well yes there you have it.

[Tailgunner]

Hey 'Lick, how was Bend, OR? Did you see Marvelous The Great fan of all things boobies?

I don't care about your throttle blipping, just so you know.  kidding I do, you must show me. Lets ride soon my friend 

[Mother]

I've claimed that it is not a skill that should be taught, either in beginning riding courses, Code style books or racing school.

and my ultimate argument is that it shouldn't be untaught (wd?)


so where does that leave us?

[Buckethead]

In need of more beer.

[toolfan]

and my ultimate argument is that it shouldn't be untaught (wd?)


so where does that leave us?

Okay, I'm back.

There are 3 excercises in the current BRT curriculim that "teach" braking -

First is just stopping.  1st gear, approach the stopping area, both hands squeeze, both feet press, come to a complete stop.

Second is quick stop - 2nd gear, approach 15-20mph, both hands squeeze, both feet press, come to a complete stop in 1st gear.

Then we sneak one in, I can't remember what it's called... I'll say corner entry...
ride in the larve oval in second gear, as you approach the corner, slow to a suitable entry speed then press to initiate a lean.  The goal here is not to stop, but rather to reduce speed.

Notice - there is nothing in the directions about squeezing in the clutch, and in fact, I'll coach students to leave the clutch out if they start pulling it in (if that's the case more often than not, they want to downshift here).

So,

how exactly is it "untaught?"

Do you not agree that engine braking is a topic that is suitable for self-discovery?


That beer is awful dark.  I suppose it is winter.

[Mother]

Okay, I'm back.

There are 3 excercises in the current BRT curriculim that "teach" braking -

First is just stopping.  1st gear, approach the stopping area, both hands squeeze, both feet press, come to a complete stop.

Second is quick stop - 2nd gear, approach 15-20mph, both hands squeeze, both feet press, come to a complete stop in 1st gear.

Then we sneak one in, I can't remember what it's called... I'll say corner entry...
ride in the larve oval in second gear, as you approach the corner, slow to a suitable entry speed then press to initiate a lean.  The goal here is not to stop, but rather to reduce speed.

Notice - there is nothing in the directions about squeezing in the clutch, and in fact, I'll coach students to leave the clutch out if they start pulling it in (if that's the case more often than not, they want to downshift here).

So,

how exactly is it "untaught?"

Do you not agree that engine braking is a topic that is suitable for self-discovery?


That beer is awful dark.  I suppose it is winter.

in the initial part of this discussion we were talking about Code

and his black and white statement that engines go and brakes slow

my initial argument was that it was dumb because the engine is a large factor in slowing/stopping

thus black and white statements such as that are really not teaching you anything


as to Team Oregon

I am not saying that team oregon unteaches it

but I will mention that in my experience with them

they told me I was not using enough front brake in those excersizes

that I relied on the engine too much

and I respectfully disagree

[Mother]

and

as I tried to engage my instructor in the question

how do I grab more front brake when my engine slows my bike so quickly

the response was

pull in the clutch

To me disengaging the motor is the one of the last steps you should do when stopping

and

disengaging the motor just so I can use more brake is...well I don't know of anything to call it but dumb

[toolfan]

You took the irt,
the only stopping excercise there is the quick stop.
With your front brakes -
if your back wheel wasn't floating off the ground,
then you weren't performing the quickest stop your bike could.


I'm pretty sure that code never said "if you are on the brakes, the clutch should be in."
I think he treats it similar to TO - it's implicit.  The "best" way to slow a motorcycle is with the brakes - you say I can't make black/white statements like this - but I say I can, if I define best as "most effective."

Now, when you are laying out skills for practice, do you lay out the "best" way, or a way that'll work some of the time?  Is it better to coach someone to "roll off the throttle for a corner" and then send them down Ten Eyck road, or is it better to teach them to set their speed with the most effecient tool they have?

[Mother]

You took the irt,
the only stopping excercise there is the quick stop.
With your front brakes -
if your back wheel wasn't floating off the ground,
then you weren't performing the quickest stop your bike could.


I'm pretty sure that code never said "if you are on the brakes, the clutch should be in."
I think he treats it similar to TO - it's implicit.  The "best" way to slow a motorcycle is with the brakes - you say I can't make black/white statements like this - but I say I can, if I define best as "most effective."

Now, when you are laying out skills for practice, do you lay out the "best" way, or a way that'll work some of the time?  Is it better to coach someone to "roll off the throttle for a corner" and then send them down Ten Eyck road, or is it better to teach them to set their speed with the most effecient tool they have?

when I lay out skills for practice

I lay out a goal

and let the students find and analyze their own conclusion as to the most effective method

then it is discussed and layed against the historically accepted method and policy

if a better way is found, policy is changed

if a better way isn't found then practice is changed


my feeling on the team oregon course is that it is a shotgun method designed to get you on the road so you can begin learning...in traffic

I didn't take anything away from that course except irritation and a lighter wallet

to me it needed to be longer

and more indepth

but I realize it cannot be based on what it is designed to do

[Mother]

and are you sure we didn't do the circle thingy in the IRT?

I seem to remember getting crap over my braking style on more than one excersize

and it only came from the one guy

the other guy said I did just fine

so make the beast with two backs that other guy

goldwing riding prick

[toolfan]

when I lay out skills for practice

I lay out a goal

and let the students find and analyze their own conclusion as to the most effective method

then it is discussed and layed against the historically accepted method and policy

if a better way is found, policy is changed

if a better way isn't found then practice is changed


my feeling on the team oregon course is that it is a shotgun method designed to get you on the road so you can begin learning...in traffic

I didn't take anything away from that course except irritation and a lighter wallet

to me it needed to be longer

and more indepth

but I realize it cannot be based on what it is designed to do

Dude.  You took the shortest, least in depth course they offer.

On purpose.




And to defend them... (I don't know why, but I will - they do a good job.)

TO is very analytical about teaching.
The courses were developed, and is refined, primarily by reviewing the crash statistics specific to our state.  Further, they are currently doing involving a bike set up with a phenominal amount of data collection - including a drivers eye cam and eye tracker to further hone the program.
We're actually pretty lucky, compared to most states, where they are still using MSF, which was developed some 30 years ago - by some good guys, but funded entirely by the bike industry.

You would have been better served taking the RSP - except that it is for riders who are already licensed.  Even better by the ART - but it requires a license and prior training, (which you now have.)

Actually - taking the ART wouldn't be a bad idea for you - might give you a little more insight into motorcycle instruction as well as improve your skills, it certainly did for me.  I'd like to take it again, but they only offer it on weekdays.

[toolfan]

and are you sure we didn't do the circle thingy in the IRT?

I seem to remember getting crap over my braking style on more than one excersize

and it only came from the one guy

the other guy said I did just fine

so make the beast with two backs that other guy

goldwing riding prick

You did the circle riding thing, but that's not a stopping drill, and you only had one coach on that excercise.


My cat is pissing me off and I can't type anymore.

[JohnnyDucati]

Oreos.

Double Stuff are superior to regular.

Discuss.

[Betty Rage]

Oreos.

Double Stuff are superior to regular.

Discuss.

Absolutely.

No room for argument, next topic. 

[Buckethead]

Oreos.

Double Stuff are superior to regular.

Discuss.

More cream filling = more gooder.

Call of Duty: World at War.

Greater than or equal to COD4: Modern Warfare.

Discuss, in all your geekdom.