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Crossing over a 6v flooded lead acid battery

Started by Monsterlover, January 10, 2015, 09:54:34 AM

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Howie

#15
January 11, 2015, 05:55:05 AM
You need more than a tender.  This would be the the minimum, http://www.impactbattery.com/noco-genius-g4-four-bank-6v-12v-charger.html  and would take about a couple of days to fully charge batteries of that size.  This would be better  http://www.impactbattery.com/quick-charge-25-amp-no-polarity-charger-6v-12v.html  and this  http://www.sears.com/solar-6-12-24v-60-40-15-5-250a-wheel-charger/p-SPM7968295713?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=G5  even better.

Howie

#16
January 11, 2015, 06:04:52 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on January 11, 2015, 05:39:42 AM
If it's a 12V motor you'd want a 12V charger.

I'd check the operation of the onboard charger. Lead acid battery technology isn't that pointy.

Sort of.  If it is a 12volt motor and you understand the wiring you can charge the ones in series with a 12 volt.  Otherwise, safest is take the cables off and charge each as a 6 volt.  Flooded batteries?  No reason not to use the on board charger.  AGM?  Voltage will be too low to fully charge the batteries.  Unless the on board charger has a float mode it can also overcharge, particularly important with a AGM.

Monsterlover

#17
January 11, 2015, 07:05:06 AM
is it possible to overcharge a flooded battery
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

ducpainter

#18
January 11, 2015, 07:34:01 AM
Quote from: Monsterlover on January 11, 2015, 07:05:06 AM
is it possible to overcharge a flooded battery
Yes
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


Monsterlover

#19
January 11, 2015, 07:46:42 AM
What's the easy way to determine if I should put it on the charger?

Install a volt meter?
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Howie

#20
January 11, 2015, 07:53:18 AM
Yes.  I/m surprised it doesn't have one.  Also try and keep charging voltage below 15 volts.  Did you find the specs on the motor?  Is there a wiring schematic anywhere?

Monsterlover

#21
January 11, 2015, 09:46:45 AM
No on board volt meter.  I can not find specs on the motor.  There are no details listed in the parts book.  It just says "motor" [laugh]

I have the wiring schematic for the whole machine.

I don't know how to read it though.  It is clear that they're putting 2 6v batteries in series but I'm only making the assumption they're pairing the outputs of those pairs in a parallel setup.

Im uploading pics now, maybe that will help.

So at what voltage would I want to plug the charger in?  Im still not clear if I'm reading 6v as full or 12v
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Monsterlover

#22
January 11, 2015, 09:54:13 AM


"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Howie

#23
January 11, 2015, 10:02:43 PM
All I can really say is that the pairs of 6 volt are in series, each pair, 12 volts.  Problem is I have no idea what some of the other components are and cannot read the print (might not help anyway). On board charger work?  If so, just replace the batteries.  As far as a voltmeter goes, you can either put across a single 6 volt or a pair that are in series.  If you choose a single 6 volt, try to let it not fall below 6.05, pair of sixes, not below 12.10.  Fully charged for 12 would be 12.6-12.8, an individual 6, 6.3-6.4.  Voltage should be read after a load is supplied (hit a switch) or you will be reading surface voltage.  As long as the plates are covered with liquid, do not top off until charged.  If plates are exposed to air, cover plates with water.  Do not overcharge!

Popeye the Sailor

#24
January 12, 2015, 11:30:20 AM
Quote from: Monsterlover on January 11, 2015, 05:47:44 AM
Even though the batteries are 6v?

Pointy?

Rocket science term.

Pointy end goes up.  ;)
If the state had not cut funding for the mental institutions, this project could never have happened.

Monsterlover

#25
January 13, 2015, 02:42:24 AM
Quote from: howie on January 11, 2015, 05:55:05 AM
You need more than a tender.  This would be the the minimum, http://www.impactbattery.com/noco-genius-g4-four-bank-6v-12v-charger.html  and would take about a couple of days to fully charge batteries of that size.  This would be better  http://www.impactbattery.com/quick-charge-25-amp-no-polarity-charger-6v-12v.html  and this  http://www.sears.com/solar-6-12-24v-60-40-15-5-250a-wheel-charger/p-SPM7968295713?prdNo=5&blockNo=5&blockType=G5  even better.

Back to this, why no to a 12v (or 6v) tender?
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Howie

#26
January 13, 2015, 04:50:44 AM
A tender would work, but it would take much longer than over night.  The amperage removed from the batteries needs to be replaced.  Assume a 45 AH battery, in your case, x4.  You use 10 amp hours of power from each battery during the day.  You need to replace 40 amps.  At the Battery Tender Plus's output of 1.25 amps that would take 32 hours.  They claim the plus will do the equivalent of 3 amps (don't know how)  it would still take 13 hours and 18 minutes.  True, the slower you charge the battery the better it is for the battery, but how slow is too slow?  You could speed things up by getting a set of four, but that would be expensive.

Monsterlover

#27
January 13, 2015, 12:38:56 PM
Well, they way I see it, tenders are cheap, and they work really well even unattended.

I leave my bikes plugged into them for 6 months at a time during the off season, and I have a 6v tender keeping the system back up battery on my Mazak mill topped off since that machine sits a lot.

I don't know how much use would equate to 10ah but typical day for this unit is, turn on, get something off a shelf, count out some parts, put skid back on shelf, shut unit off.

Then it sits for a day (or days) or a few weeks.  Then it gets used to load a few heavy parts into machines (over 50lbs or so) and that might represent 15 or 20 minutes of use and then it's back to dormancy.

Would that eat up 10ah?
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

Monsterlover

#28
January 13, 2015, 12:39:12 PM
Also, thanks for all this info, im learning something.
"The Vincent was like a bullet that went straight; the Ducati is like the magic bullet in Dallas that went sideways and hit JFK and the Governor of Texas at the same time."--HST    **"A man who works with his hands is a laborer.  A man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman.  A man who works with his hands, brains, and heart is an artist."  -Louis Nizer**

ducpainter

#29
January 13, 2015, 12:46:20 PM
Quote from: Monsterlover on January 13, 2015, 12:38:56 PM
Well, they way I see it, tenders are cheap, and they work really well even unattended.

I leave my bikes plugged into them for 6 months at a time during the off season, and I have a 6v tender keeping the system back up battery on my Mazak mill topped off since that machine sits a lot.

I don't know how much use would equate to 10ah but typical day for this unit is, turn on, get something off a shelf, count out some parts, put skid back on shelf, shut unit off.

Then it sits for a day (or days) or a few weeks.  Then it gets used to load a few heavy parts into machines (over 50lbs or so) and that might represent 15 or 20 minutes of use and then it's back to dormancy.

Would that eat up 10ah?
It all depends on the motor specs and condition of the wiring in the unit. If you knew the hp of the motor you could calculate the battery draw.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


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