Recurring ignition coils error code P0351 on both coils/circuits (S2R1K)

[czen]

I posted this on another forum but got no replies; hoping someone here may know more. Many thanks!

I keep getting the above error code (P0351) on my 2006 S2R 1000 (19K miles): Ignition Coil Circuit Malfunction, for both Coils 1 and 2. I've been checking the codes either with TuneECU or ScanM5X.

I clear the error, but it comes back. Though the bike needs tuning for sure (TB sync, etc.), it runs fairly well (after a lot of troubleshooting and basic servicing). [Except for stalling at start up, which began yesterday after I wrote this up.]

I've been told by a Ducati mechanic this might be happening because I've been doing a fair bit of work on the bike, taking out the battery at various points, and so on.

Does that seem right? I haven't really seen a direct correlation between taking the battery out and getting the error code.

I thought there was something off about the coils when I tested them with a multimeter.

On testing the primary, low voltage coils, I got 1.6 Ohm.

But I could not check the secondary, high voltage circuit. I could not get a reading with the coil cables connected, which is how I gather the test is normally done. On standard-type testing of secondary coils I get nothing, zero. In other words, I could not get any Ohm reading between the input (the smaller pins, or "pigtails") and the output (the large round plugs that connect to the cables that, in turn, go to the spark plugs). Nor of course could I get a reading from the input (small) pins to the end of the cables when the cables were attached to the coils.

I looked up the ignition coil test procedure, for which there are a bunch of youtube videos, and from what I gather, I should be able to get an Ohm reading from the smaller "input" pins (the ECU end, I guess you could call it) to the end of the coil cables (the spark plug end) ... but I don't get anything there.

On the other hand, when I check the cables alone while they are disconnected/detached from the coils, I get 4500 Ohms, i.e., JUST on the coil wires/cables alone that go to the spark plugs.

I don't know what's going on there, is this normal? Again, I couldn't reproduce what I take to be the standard coil test procedure, except for the primary coil test, and then I got a low (1.6) Ohm value - I don't know if that's what it is supposed to be. There are no tech specs anywhere I could find that say what the readings should be for the S2R1K coils - I even wrote to Beru but no response yet.

For greater clarity: for example, if you look at this video, I could reproduce the primary coil test (discussed at the 1:00 minute mark), and I get 1.6Ohms ... but I could NOT reproduce the test described at the 2:00 minute mark. I could only test the coil wires while they're detached, not while attached to the coils. And even then, I get 4500 Ohms, which seems low. SEE VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRQ45lT2d3cOR

Or take this other video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVH83g9DUK8 ... again, I could only reproduce the first part of the test, with the lower Ohm values for the "primary" or "low voltage" coil; I could not reproduce the second part of the test, for the "secondary" or "high voltage" coil.

Any thoughts? Are the Beru coils different, or am I using the wrong test procedure?

Much appreciated!

[czen]

For more clarity (not sure I explained myself well enough above), please see the attached photo.

Testing with a multimeter, I can do the test on point "A" and I get a reading of 1.6 Ohm when taking a reading between the two pins.

However, I am unable to get a reading of any kind when I place the leads on points "A" and "B" respectively, no matter how I combine the leads and/or pins. I get zero.

This of course means I also don't get any readings between points "A" and "C", where C = the tips of the coil cables (i.e., the tips that plug onto the spark plugs), when attached to the large round plugs on the coil. Again, I get zero.

Based on the coil testing procedures I've looked up, I should be able to get SOME reading between A and B, and between A and C.

BUT, if I test just "C" alone, just the coil cable when detached, I get 4500 Ohms.

I hope this clarifies.

Many thanks!

http://s288.photobucket.com/user/cityzen1/media/Beru%20Coils_zpsbv9nskct.jpg.html

[DarkMonster620]

Do you feel/hear any missfires? Have you followed the wires to see if they're "cut" or isolation is damged?

That is a short circuit to either side of one/both of the coils; if you're not getting a reading(sorry pic did not open) on either end of coil, then "bad coil" . . .

Hoping for the best, hopefully not a faulty ECU>>> from disconnecting-connecting the battery

[czen]

Thanks for responding!

I'm getting popping on deceleration, but I assumed this is because (I'm pretty sure) I'm running a tad lean and I have leaks in my exhaust at the pipe joints (I'll have to refit the decat pipes I installed and seal them up better). No other form of misfire, however.

I've checked the wiring as best as I could and did not see any problems - but I should probably check more carefully.

As I discuss I mention in a separate post, yesterday it started stalling out at start up.

Re images: I still don't know how to post photos, so sorry!

link to photo here: http://s288.photobucket.com/user/cityzen1/media/Beru%20Coils_zpsbv9nskct.jpg.html

As for ECU ... how could disconnecting battery cause it to fault? I've been 100% careful not to cross wire at any time, etc. And I'm not getting any other error codes for now (I had some old ones before but after I cleared them they did not return).

[Howie]

If the bike was not running and the ignition switch is off disconnecting the battery will do no harm.  Disconnecting the battery while running can, but not will damage electronic parts like your computer due to voltage spikes.  I can't follow what you are doing with your coil testing, plus there are no published specs from Ducati for those coils.  Across the two smaller connectors should read in the area of 5ish ohms and from either smaller connector top the high tension terminal probably more than 10 ohms.  These are indeed wild ass guesses.  High tension wire in or out should not make a notable difference unless the wire is bad.  The spark plug cap should read about 5K ohms.  If you are throwing the same codes repeatedly you either have two bad coils (not likely), a wiring problem or an ECU problem (not likely).  My thinking is any wires that affect both coils.  I don't know how the computer determines to set a coil code.  A bench test on your coils only means they are probably good since you are not stress testing them.  Years ago, we used to dynamically test coils with special testers.  This can still be done with an oscilloscope but it is not a common practice on bikes.

The coils can be tested on the bike quite easy on the bike with the Mathasis tester by a shop that has one.  Your dealer should.  A shade tree alternative is borrow a known good coil.  Use on one cylinder.  Code doesn't come back on the cylinder, bad coil.  I would say if the wires test good just buy a set of coils, but they ain't cheap. 

[Bill in OKC]

I think some ignition systems can sense whether the plug has fired or not by how the coil recovers.  If the bike is running OK and the coils test good  I wonder if the plug gap or type might be causing nuisance errors?  Just a wild guess.

[DarkMonster620]

czen, where are  you located?

why? maybe someone knows a good shop with a diag system or a dealer that can help you   

[Speeddog]

I've noticed similar bogus error codes with a Centurion/VDSTS.

In general, I've only found one error code that has been valid, that was on a 748, telling me the injector driver was bad.

But I already knew that.  

[czen]

Thanks guys, all good info!

I do have access to a reputedly decent shop now near Toronto (though I didn't all summer); I'll ask about the testing equipment and/or to double check the wiring for me as I may have missed something.

With respect to the multimeter testing, I was just trying to run the tests demonstrated in the videos I provided a link for, but I could not duplicate one part of the test; specifically, I get a zero Ohm reading on the second part of the standard test, i.e., when I test with the multimeter leads placed on point "A" (in above photo of the Beru coil) to point "B". ... I'm referring to the photo of the coil and the two terminal sides labelled as "A" and "B" because, frankly, I don't know what the proper technical names for those two parts of a coil might be (the "input" versus "output" terminals??).

But the bottom line is that I've tried to test in exactly the way I've read I should and in exactly the way shown in those two videos (and there are many more videos on the net demonstrating this test), but I'm not getting the expected result. Perhaps these Beru coils are different, I have no idea.

Anyways, thanks again!

[czen]

... (1) Across the two smaller connectors should read in the area of 5ish ohms

(2) and from either smaller connector top the high tension terminal probably more than 10 ohms.  ....

(3) The spark plug cap should read about 5K ohms.

For (1) I'm getting 1.6 Ohms.
For (2) I'm getting zero, nothing no matter how I combine the leads - that's the weird part. I also get zero if I attach the cables/wires to the high tension terminal and test from the "smaller connector" across to the spark plug cap.
For (3) I'm getting 4.5K, so that's ok - assuming we're talking about the same thing. I'm talking about taking a reading from the spark plug cap to the other side of the wire, which is the side that connects to the coils. In other words, on testing just the cable/wire by itself.

[Howie]

I think some ignition systems can sense whether the plug has fired or not by how the coil recovers.  If the bike is running OK and the coils test good  I wonder if the plug gap or type might be causing nuisance errors?  Just a wild guess.

I've noticed similar bogus error codes with a Centurion/VDSTS.

In general, I've only found one error code that has been valid, that was on a 748, telling me the injector driver was bad.

But I already knew that. 

Interesting, makes sense.

Back to coils.  0 ohms would indicate a shorted winding.  Even then, you should read something, just under spec.  Primary might be right,since I don't know the spec for that coil.  Plus the bike does run.  4.5 is goodnuff on the spark plug cap. 

For (2) I'm getting zero, nothing no matter how I combine the leads - that's the weird part. I also get zero if I attach the cables/wires to the high tension terminal and test from the "smaller connector" across to the spark plug cap.

Are you sure you are getting zero, not infinity?

[DarkMonster620]

I will check manual for specs .  .  . forgot I got those

[czen]

I will check manual for specs .  .  . forgot I got those

Already looked, both in the owner's manual and the workshop manual - and there's nothing. I wrote to Beru, never heard back. Maybe there's something in the LT Snyder or the other books? (I have that on order.)

[czen]

  Are you sure you are getting zero, not infinity?

I'm testing with a digital multimeter and it's showing zero; I assume if infinity I would get some kind of error or other indication.

Many thanks for your reply; and sorry I didn't explain what I was doing with the testing very well.

[Howie]

You explained well, your results just don't make any sense to me.  0 is the reading for no resistance.  This would mean no spark.  With the wire and cap you should be reading at least 4.5K ohms since that is the resistance of the cap.  Infinity would explain no reading for the cap and possibly poor running since voltage could jump a gap in the winding.