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Fuel pump wiring - Fixed! Now leaking at flange o-ring

Started by chipripper, September 20, 2019, 12:35:33 PM

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chipripper

September 20, 2019, 12:35:33 PM Last Edit: November 10, 2019, 06:42:45 AM by chipripper
0600 this morning my sweet monster had her first ever breakdown.



I had just got on the 8 west, merged into the fast lane, and opened it up to around [the speed limit] [leo]. Engine cut out as I got into cruising mode. Pulled clutch and attempted rolling restart. Cranked but did not fire. Made emergency hand gestures to truck next to me and he kindly escorted me across all 5 lanes to the shoulder (THX dude!). Tried several restarts on the side of the road and it cranked but wouldn't start. Couldn't hear anything to troubleshoot on the side of the highway, so I Uber'd home and got my truck. Went back to the bike to arrange a tow home (on the way to work), and of course she fired up. I'm thinking fueling issue, but I'll hold my speculation until I can troubleshoot. For now this is a placeholder thread until I get a multi-meter on some parts and come up with some intelligent observations / questions!
2008 S2R1000 black and white, mostly stock ;-)
Marving header, Velocity stacks, Pod filters, Flashed ECU to DP map, Polished valve covers and cam covers, SSR reverse shifter and inspection cover, Aelle adjustable pegs, Windscreen and cowl removal, Many plastic bits removed, Cut beer tray

chipripper

#1
September 20, 2019, 05:08:35 PM
Ok, so I got home and gave it the basic checks. When I turn the key, I hear a relay click, and the fuel pump runs but sounds very weak. The bike starts and runs for 5 seconds or so then sputters out.

I found a few other threads regarding troubleshooting the pump, relay, and the flange wiring. I'll read through them and see if I can come up with anything. Wish me luck!
2008 S2R1000 black and white, mostly stock ;-)
Marving header, Velocity stacks, Pod filters, Flashed ECU to DP map, Polished valve covers and cam covers, SSR reverse shifter and inspection cover, Aelle adjustable pegs, Windscreen and cowl removal, Many plastic bits removed, Cut beer tray

ducpainter

#2
September 20, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
When was the last fuel filter change?
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


Howie

#3
September 20, 2019, 08:33:12 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on September 20, 2019, 05:16:00 PM
When was the last fuel filter change?

Good place to start.  While in there look for contamination.

chipripper

#4
September 20, 2019, 09:10:07 PM
I actually replaced the filter recently, maybe 500miles ago. I'm curious though. I replaced a plastic filter with a metal one and the plastic filter had a screw mount to the pump housing. The screw also secured 2 black wires with loop terminals. I screwed the wires back into place, and left the filter floating. Would those wires cause the pump to not run if their connection was broken? I'll definitely be taking the pump and filter out for a bench test, so I'll post a pic of the connection when I get it open.
2008 S2R1000 black and white, mostly stock ;-)
Marving header, Velocity stacks, Pod filters, Flashed ECU to DP map, Polished valve covers and cam covers, SSR reverse shifter and inspection cover, Aelle adjustable pegs, Windscreen and cowl removal, Many plastic bits removed, Cut beer tray

ducpainter

#5
September 21, 2019, 06:17:31 AM
Those wires are grounds. The one to the filter was to prevent a static charge. I don't think it would affect the pump ground.

I'd have to see it.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


Howie

#6
September 21, 2019, 06:23:46 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on September 21, 2019, 06:17:31 AM
Those wires are grounds. The one to the filter was to prevent a static charge. I don't think it would affect the pump ground.

I'd have to see it.
You got it right.  Check the hoses when you are in there.  If they need replacement you need hose that meets the 30R10 spec.  I think California Cycleworks has per cut kits.

ducpainter

#7
September 21, 2019, 07:23:53 AM
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


chipripper

#8
September 29, 2019, 01:27:20 PM
Well, it looks like I'm not getting lucky with a fuse or relay. The relay clicks every time, and once I drained and raised the tank, the pump doesn't prime anymore. So I'm thinking either there is a loose wire on the pump side, or I've got the "bad connection buried in epoxy" problem. I need to clean my garage before I can finish draining my tank and pull the pump assembly. I'll post you guys some pics once I get it apart and figure out which it is.


I'm looking at the wiring kit from CA cycleworks (wish they were still in San Diego).

http://ca-cycleworks.com/fwires.html

And this forum post where speeddog kindly provided a ducati part number

http://www.ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=68789.75
Ducati part number 51020032A

Are there differences between these 2 parts that anyone is aware of? I'm definitely inclined to spend some money on a new part rather than dig, re-solder, re-epoxy.
2008 S2R1000 black and white, mostly stock ;-)
Marving header, Velocity stacks, Pod filters, Flashed ECU to DP map, Polished valve covers and cam covers, SSR reverse shifter and inspection cover, Aelle adjustable pegs, Windscreen and cowl removal, Many plastic bits removed, Cut beer tray

Howie

#9
September 29, 2019, 03:16:14 PM
The relay clicking does not always mean it works.  Lift tank, remove the electrical connector to the fuel pump assembly, turn key on.  There should be power at the brown/whit wire if the relay is working.  No power?  Remove relay and install a jumper wire between terminal 30 and 87  If the pump now runs the relay is bad.  An alternative method to check the relay, apply 12 V, positive to 85 and negative to 86.  Connect a multi-meter to contacts 30 and 87 to check for continuity. You should see no or very little resistance.  You are probably right about needing the kit, but it would be a shame to go through the work and find out otherwise.

ducpainter

#10
September 30, 2019, 01:20:31 PM
I'd order the kit anyway.

If you don't need it now, you will eventually.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


Howie

#11
September 30, 2019, 01:25:58 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on September 30, 2019, 01:20:31 PM
I'd order the kit anyway.

If you don't need it now, you will eventually.

Good point!

chipripper

#12
September 30, 2019, 01:33:20 PM
Thanks Howie,

I did verify 12v at the connector, during the pump-prime cycle when you turn the key to run (5 seconds or so). I'll double check with the resistance measurement to be sure. I'm still hoping I just have a loose wire inside the tank, since lifting the tank made the pump stop running altogether, and jiggling the wiring didn't seem to have any effect. hopefully I can get my garage cleaned up tonight and finish troubleshooting this week. I kind of made a disaster area working on my wife's bike, and I have tools, parts, and chemicals everywhere!

Ducpainter,

In regards to the kit: do you think the new kit is better quality than the OEM part, which seems prone to failure. Or might I be better off doing a solder and epoxy job, where I could be certain of the quality of my soldering? If it helps, I am an expert solder-er, but an amateur epoxy-ist.
2008 S2R1000 black and white, mostly stock ;-)
Marving header, Velocity stacks, Pod filters, Flashed ECU to DP map, Polished valve covers and cam covers, SSR reverse shifter and inspection cover, Aelle adjustable pegs, Windscreen and cowl removal, Many plastic bits removed, Cut beer tray

ducpainter

#13
September 30, 2019, 03:15:05 PM
There were some early failures with the ca-cycleworks kits, and Chris pulled them immediately until he came up with a solution.

Me...I can solder, and JB weld is fuel proof if you mix it right, and follow the 'structions for cleaning up the application site. That might be tough to do given the constraints of the pieces.

Your call.
"Once you accept that a child on the autistic spectrum experiences the world in
a completely different way than you, you will be open to understand how that
 perspective
    is even more amazing than yours."
    To realize the value of nine  months:
    Ask a mother who gave birth to a stillborn.
"Don't piss off old people The older we get, the less 'Life in Prison' is a deterrent.”


chipripper

#14
October 27, 2019, 01:22:53 PM
All right, the gas fumes have subsided in my garage enough to start breaking down the pump assembly, and I have a couple questions.

I disconnected the wires from the fuel pump and the fuel level sender. Then I pried up the push on rings that hold the big plastic shroud down.

In this photo:



The part in the circle is in the way of lifting off the plastic housing. What is it? Am I in for any surprises when I lift it off?

It is also being held in by 2 push on rings (Red Arrow), but they are stuck on real good, and I think I'm going to break the plastic when I pry under them, so I think I will need to cut them off.
2008 S2R1000 black and white, mostly stock ;-)
Marving header, Velocity stacks, Pod filters, Flashed ECU to DP map, Polished valve covers and cam covers, SSR reverse shifter and inspection cover, Aelle adjustable pegs, Windscreen and cowl removal, Many plastic bits removed, Cut beer tray
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