S4Rs re-spring - anyone tried it?

[Speeddog]

Every Ohlins spring I've seen is linear rate, but the linkage does have some rising rate in it.

Ohlins shocks are *quite* responsive to knob adjustments, as opposed to the usual OEM Sachs, not sure how responsive the Showa units are.
My OEM Sachs on my S4, a change of 3 clicks was barely noticeable.
I tried that on my Ohlins when I first got it, and 3 clicks was a *huge* change.

[Moronic]

Speeddog,

thanks again for the input.

My comment on the sump related merely to how close it is to the roadway when the shock is fully compressed. Something people don't get to see unless the spring is removed.

Thanks for the thoughts re spring numbers. That's not a big deal, as the Ohlins guy can sort it out. Just curious in case you had the details handy.

Interested in your comments on the rising rate. Agrees with my observations of the linkage. Looks to me more like a falling rate, if anything. Upper link starts near vertical, ends near horizontal. But doesn't feel like that.

If I place my left boot in a certain possy while riding, can feel the swingarm moving against heel. On smoothish roads, it does a lot of work, very little of which is felt through the seat. Much like the relation of front fork to handlebar. (i.e. brilliant.) Again suggesting that bigger hits get into some bump-stop regime (but not the rubber stopper).

But like you, I'm not aware the shock has an anti-bottoming hydraulic circuit. (I think a few Ohlins units do, e.g. BMW R1200GS ADV.)

Very interested to hear you are at full soft on the compression adjuster. Again sounds like a solution for symptoms eerily similar to mine. Have seen magazine reports recommend full-soft compression for an S4RS shock, which to me suggests use outside range Ohlins envisaged.

CDawg,

the spring is linear, but works through a mechanical linkage that may offer rising rate. (Haven't tested, and appearances can be deceptive.) I think the post on TOB you refer to may have been mine.

My thinnish previous experience with Ohlins units says that in the conditions Ohlins envisages, shock should work well near standard damping settings. 

Roads over here are smoothish but can get ripply. As for my style, I'm probably at the quicker end of the spectrum after 20 or more track days and 30 years' road riding (with gaps) but don't push it these days and little opportunity over here. Just want the bike to feel as good as it can, given the gear it (she) rolls on.   

[CDawg]

I say just right, because I set it up with a bit less sag couple of weeks ago, with some very experienced help, and on a long road trial it rode a bit too high. So I knocked a turn and a half off the preload and today took the test run.

Moronic,
You are probably a more experinced rider than me.  I re-read your original post and have a quick question:  Why not keep sag perfect, but dial down the compression to improve the ride instead of backing off the preload a turn and half?  Conceptually, thay would keep the suspension in its optimal (mid-1/3) operational range while smoothing out the ride a bit.

[Moronic]

CDawg,

a good question. Part of the reply is about the inevitably limited tiime we all have for testing. The initial set-up at 12mm was done on the basis of a small measurement error, I suspect. The 10.5 was an effort to compensate fully.

What is the 'ideal' figure. Given my supposedly ideal weight, I could go for the 11mm standard setting. And it does occur to me that I've backed off the preload a little too far.

That we are even talking about this testifies to the sensitivity of the gear (or my perfectionism).

But on the compression adjuster: your suggestion and that of others commenting here accords with suggestion of my experienced helper. So with the 12mm preload, I tried backing off the compression adjuster all the way. Hard hits were just as bad; low-speed compression damping way too vague.

And intuitively, it makes no sense. Ohlins testers and engineers can't be complete fools. Surely the top aftermarket shock supplier (at least arguably) doesn't supply a compression damping adjuster that is worse than useless.

Further, I've run an Ohlins shock before oin a different bike that was pretty much perfect at standard settings, and you could make it comfy by backing off two clicks of compression from std, and solid for quick stuff by adding two clicks. With a click or two on the rebound to complement if seeking ideal for the conditions.

That's what I reckon the S4Rs shock should offer. And the more I zero in on optimal preload (for me), the closer I get to that.

What I am now wondering is whether I've (just about) exhausted the available adjustments on the stock set-up, and the next step is a re-spring.

I'm greatly enjoying this discussion, and very much apppreciate all the relating of people's experiences.

The great thing about Ohlins is that you can get it just how you want it. That is also its shortcoming, perversely. Just a function of the state of the art, I suspect.

[CDawg]

But on the compression adjuster: your suggestion and that of others commenting here accords with suggestion of my experienced helper. So with the 12mm preload, I tried backing off the compression adjuster all the way. Hard hits were just as bad; low-speed compression damping way too vague.

Now I am completely outside of my FHE space, but if compression was backed out all the way, Lee Parks' Total Control book also suggested that is rebound was set too fast/high then it would add to the harshness by springing back too fast and not dissipating the the energy as heat. The other extreme suggested was if hte rebound was set too slow/low then each successive bump would compress the shock more causing the suspension to work in the non-ideal part (upper 1/3)...Just food for thought. 

[Moronic]

CDawg I greatly appreciate your pursuing this. Given the preload I'm at, the rebound is just about perfect. I crossed a railway line on last ride, and rear end response was astonishingly wonderful. Can't imagine Ohlins founder envisaging anything better. Bit of a chmphh as we hit, then a sighhh as we crossed, and nothing else. Which suggests the compression was spot-on also - for that input.

Here I will admit a newby error to do with relatively recent return to the biking ownership fold: began by turning rebound adjuster the wrong way. Well, it's tough to distinguish clockwise from anticlockwise on a horizontal clicker when you're out of practice. Anyway, know all about the packing-down effect. Not the issue any more.

Now, it could be that nirvana for me would develop from adding a half turn of preload, thus returning shock to standard setting and confirming the beliefs of every bike component supplier that all problems arise from people using the supplied adjustments.

But I am comforted in my discomfiture by other posters admitting they're running no compression clicks. That makes me wonder: is Ohlins giving us too much high-speed valving - or are we all (even the aftermarket buyers) faced with a spring issue.

Edit: railway lines on country roads here are on a raised bit of roadway. Bit like a very exaggerated speed bump.

[Speeddog]

Man, you guys have been typing a lot. 

The spring on my OEM Ohlins shock is an 01092-36/105 L 236.

That spring is 170mm free length, 10.7kg/mm rate.

An 01091- spring is 160mm long, and the 01093- spring is 150mm long.

My Ohlins shock on my S4, with the hydraulic preload adjuster uses an 01091-34/100 spring.
So, it's a 160mm free length, 10.2kg/mm rate.
I'm about 165# without gear, and the spring seems about right.

As far as the compression damping goes, I think Ohlins is being conservative.
Furnishing shocks that are a bit firm on high speed compression so folks don't bottom out hard, as that can lead to off-road excursions and other nasty surprises.
They really can't control how folks use their product, or depend on the end-user to get it set up correctly, so I can't blame them.

Besides, it's motivation for us to buy their shocks that have high-speed compression adjustment. 

[Moronic]

Speeddog,

thanks for the spring details. So the S4 aftermarket unit is sprung slightly softer than the S4Rs, assuming similar linkages, and squeezes in the hydraulic adjuster despite being only 10mm shorter.

And you are about my weight and happy with the spring. Thanks for that info too.

Would be nice to have one of the new TTX shocks with the high-speed compression adjustment, but AFAIK they don't offer one for the Monster.

I think I'll do a bit more riding and tweaking with what I've got, then likely will order hydraulic adjuster with some firmer springs front and rear just to make the bike better two-up (which it does a lot; yes, we'll be changing the seat also).

Will then report on how it works solo with the firmer boingers.

Thanks to everybody for the generous input.

[Speeddog]

My bike works well with that spring and hydraulic preload cranked all the way in, for me and a ~130 lb pillion.

[Moronic]

My bike works well with that spring and hydraulic preload cranked all the way in, for me and a ~130 lb pillion.

Interesting. Thanks again.