Will a lightweight flywheel damage a starter sprag?

[kuhlka]

Ok, I recently had a Nichols lightweight flywheel installed on my 1098.  It was a beautiful change all around.  The bike transitions smoother/faster, it rides muuuuch smoother at low RPMs in 1st, and the acceleration is a bit better all around.  The only downside is a small increase in revs to get going in 1st.  Oh, and the bike revs like crazy.

SO, after like 5 short rides around town with the new flywheel, I accidentally bump the bike into 1st at a stoplight and it stalls.  I go to start the bike back up and it makes really LOUD nasty clacking/banging noises and takes 5+ tries to start now.  The really odd thing is that the bike runs great once it starts up and nothing out of the ordinary.  It is only when I go to start it up that it sounds awful from the starting system.

I took the bike back to the shop who did the work to have them look at it and have the starter/sprag/whatever repaired under warranty.  DNA tells the shop the lightweight flywheel caused damage to the sprag.  Under the Magnuson-Moss 'Warranty' Act, the dealer or manufacturer must prove the aftermarket item caused the damage.  So far, I've spoken with several other Ducati dealerships and aftermarket shops who've all said a lightweight flywheel should not cause damage to the sprag or starting system.  If anything, it will reduce the lifespan, but I only have 5,500 miles on the bike!  This is a lifespan of a part that is supposed to last like 30,000 miles.

SO, any advice for how to approach this situation.  If the flywheel genuinely caused the damage, not a mistake during installation (cock-eyed assembly or whatever), I'm happy (begrudgingly) to pay the bill and man up.  However, if there is no way the flywheel actually caused the damage and there is something wrong with my bike Ducati is refusing to cover under warranty, I'm going to be a bit pissed if I have to fight this.

[Capo]

The fact that Ducati sells a lightweight flywheel as an aftermod, brings into question their statement that lightweight flywheels cause sprag clutch failures.

[EEL]

Trust me, I've been through this for a transmission on what was at one time, my new car. I'll tell you the best way to handle this.

Go to another dealer. Its that simple. Some dealers are assholes and their representatives have been trained to spit out jibberish. If you have other dealers near your go to them first before you argue with Ducati. But at the same time, be prepared to ride it through to the end. It may take some time.

Laws are fine and dandy but unless you yourself are a lawyer, its going to cost you more money and time to settle the matter legally than to just explore your options and settle accordingly. Experiences with DNA (Ducati North America) have gone both ways so but most of the time they are reasonable.

1) Another Dealer
2) Appeal to DNA directly
3) Get a lawyer to write a letter to the dealership
4) Become a greasemonkey and do it yourself.

[Norm]

A light flywheel does not damage a sprag. I've run & sold LOT'S of light flywheels over many thousands of miles & 10 or so years & have never experienced or even heard of a related problem.

[evoasis]

I've had an "Ebay Special" light light ligghhttt weight flywheel on my bike for about 6k with no probs... Something prob went wrong with install. It's common for people who don't know what they are doing to screw up the little details like a special nut inside there and washers to be changed out... Look into it, good luck.

Christopher

[kuhlka]

Well, I ended up having to pay $400 after wating 6 months to get this shit sorted.  I'll be finding a reliable mechanic and a good dealership and not screw with another lightweight flywheel until I have a nemesis and full system on the bike.  After the warranty runs out, I'll definitely NOT be renewing it.  Right now the bike takes 4+ tries to start unless I give it some throttle.

[Norm]

Soo - you looking for a home for that poor flywheel?

[greenmonster]

a lightweight flywheel should not cause damage to the sprag or starting system.  If anything, it will reduce the lifespan,

Did they explain why lifespan is reduced?

I ended up having to pay $400 after wating 6 months to get this shit sorted.

How was it sorted, new sprag w old flywheel or what?
Was the original sprag worn?


I think a lw flywheel have some impact on starting,
having like only 25% of the weight must do something,
maybe harder to get past TDC 1st revolution or what do you guys think?

[Howie]

I can't imagine a light weight flywheel having any impact on the sprag.  There may be a very slight possibility of it affecting the engagement of an already failing sprag.

[Drunken Monkey]

I can't imagine the flywheel doing any damage to the sprag.

On the flip side, I can imagine a mechanic damaging the sprag installing the flywheel incorrectly. Isn't the the sprag is right behind it...

[kuhlka]

Did they explain why lifespan is reduced?


How was it sorted, new sprag w old flywheel or what?
Was the original sprag worn?


I think a lw flywheel have some impact on starting,
having like only 25% of the weight must do something,
maybe harder to get past TDC 1st revolution or what do you guys think?

The 'solution' was to go back to stock so I'd have future warranty coverage should my motor explode in the future.  I don't have the time or money to pay a lawyer to explain the Magnuson-Moss Act in bold legal font, so I'm just not going to bother modifying the bike until the warranty runs out and I hopefully get this ridiculously underpowered starting system replaced under warranty.  The 4+ starting attempts is with the STOCK flywheel.  After the lightweight flywheel was installed, it took maybe 2-3 tries.

DNA's explanation of why the sprag was damaged by the flywheel was some bullshit about a lawnmower with no blade on it...  I told the shop that is an irrelevant example and fails to prove the flywheel caused the damage, but trying to have my semi-mechanically ignorant wife explain things to them while I was half a country away was getting old fast and I just wanted my bike back.  The fact that DNA only covered the cracked bracket under warranty tells me either DNA or the shop in question had no interest in giving me fair honest service.  I was told by the shop the sprag would not cause damage or affect my warranty and when that turned out to be either a flat-out lie or plain ignorance, I got screwed.  Lesson learned, I won't be dealing with a shop unless I know the mechanics personally and know they'll go to bat for me.  If the dealership in Dallas DID go to bat for me like they said they were, I have zero trust in Ducati North America when it comes to warranty issues. 

Oh, and I never got my flywheel back from them.  The last time I had the bike worked on and was told I had the wrong battery in the bike, they went ahead and charged me for the proper size battery and recycled my BRAND NEW battery without even asking me if I wanted it back.  SO, I seriously doubt they have the flywheel at this point, and even if they do, they'd probably make up some story about how it got pitched because they assumed I didn't want my $200ish part back.

So, long story short, after the nichols flywheel was on the bike, it started and ran beautifully, but after accidentally bumping the bike into 1st at a stoplight (without my hand on the clutch lever) it fragged my sprag.  Whether this was due to it being a lightweight flywheel, an 'oops' on the dealer's install, or simply the fact that the stock ducati parts are ridiculously fragile, I'll never know.  I've accidentally bumped my speed triple into gear at lights probably 5+ times over the past 20,000 miles without ANY starting or clutch issues, so this makes me lean toward weak parts or a bad install.

Hopefully, I don't run into any more bullshit with this bike.  I love Ducatis, but if I have future issues with DNA or my bike's starting system crapping out, I don't know that I'll buy another.  Thats too bad too because the new Streetfighter looks sick.

[Capo]

I can't imagine the flywheel doing any damage to the sprag.

On the flip side, I can imagine a mechanic damaging the sprag installing the flywheel incorrectly. Isn't the the sprag is right behind it...

The outer driven part of the sprag is bolted to the flywheel, the whole sprag assembly would have been 'disturbed' during the fitting of the light flywheel.
IMHO the subsequent failure was attributable to the installation not the effect of the flywheel itself.

[greenmonster]

So, long story short, after the nichols flywheel was on the bike, it started and ran beautifully, but after accidentally bumping the bike into 1st at a stoplight (without my hand on the clutch lever) it fragged my sprag.

This is the hard part to swallow.
If that is really true, mustn`t there been bad shop install here? Sounds like BS to me.

[TAftonomos]

Wait wait wait.

Do I understand this correctly?

You took a perfectly running 1098 to a ducati dealer to have a nichols mfg flywheel installed
Shop installs flywheels, away you go
Bike breaks shortly afterwards, sprag gear is broken
Shop says there is nothing they can do about it, and charges you more money to fix it?

WTF over.  How to "shops" continue to stay in business that pull this kind of shit.  I'm sorry to say, but over half of the "dealers" I've been to don't have a freaking clue when it comes to mechanicals on the bike.  And to make matters worse, if you call to ask advice or a simple question, you get a cocky smart ass remark like "yes I know I'm right, I do this for a living". (funny when you yourself are looking at that part while speaking with them, and they are dead wrong....but I've digressed)

make the beast with two backs that.  Take them to small claims court.   The freakin dealer should be standing behind what they did.  I'm so pissed, and it's not even my bike/situation.  I'm just tired of hearing about people getting boned out of $$

[Ducnial]

Tell'em you want your freak'n flywheel back or fork over $200.00.  Hell, tell you want your damn installation money back too.  They assumed liability for proper function when they took you money.  You've got the paper work to prove it.