Ducati Monster Forum

Moto Board => Tech => Topic started by: darylbowden on October 16, 2008, 05:51:42 PM

Title: Neutral Light
Post by: darylbowden on October 16, 2008, 05:51:42 PM
How exactly does this thing work?

On my Husky, my neutral light doesn't work.  I figured it was a bulb, so I replaced it - still no worky.

Is there some kind of sender on the other end?  Or how DOES the light get the signal?  And, whatever the case may be, is it somewhat easy to replace?
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Buckethead on October 16, 2008, 05:54:07 PM
Gnomes.

Gnomes and dwarves.

Middle earth lives in your instrument cluster.

And I am drunk.  [beer]

Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 16, 2008, 05:59:24 PM
Generally there is a plunger type switch that contacts the shift drum in some manner.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: monster monkey on October 16, 2008, 06:03:51 PM
There should be a nuetral switch either on the gearbox or the shifter, dpending on the vehicle....
[thumbsup]
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: darylbowden on October 16, 2008, 07:01:11 PM
Ahh, perfect, I'll call Eric's tomorrow and see how much one of those bad boys costs.  And how many months it'll take Husky to actually get it to me.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Speeddog on October 16, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
Usually it's a single wire that's plugged into the neutral 'switch'.

Best to pull that connector off, and jumper it to the frame to ground it.

If the light comes on, then it's definitely the switch.
If it doesn't come on, then there's a wiring issue.

Best to do the cheap and quick diagnosis first...
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: darylbowden on October 16, 2008, 08:08:23 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on October 16, 2008, 07:34:16 PM
Usually it's a single wire that's plugged into the neutral 'switch'.

Best to pull that connector off, and jumper it to the frame to ground it.

If the light comes on, then it's definitely the switch.
If it doesn't come on, then there's a wiring issue.

Best to do the cheap and quick diagnosis first...

Umm, this may sound retarded, but I write code for a living (and got a sweet new job today btw), so can you possibly expand on exactly how I jumper it?

Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 16, 2008, 08:11:34 PM
Quote from: darylbowden on October 16, 2008, 08:08:23 PM
Umm, this may sound retarded, but I write code for a living (and got a sweet new job today btw), so can you possibly expand on exactly how I jumper it?


Just take a suitable piece of metal to go from the wire connector to ground....

a cotter pin or a jewelers type screwdriver should work.

If it happens to be a 2 wire connector, a small piece of wire...safety wire works...can be used to connect them together.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Speeddog on October 16, 2008, 08:12:15 PM
What dp said.  ;D
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 16, 2008, 08:13:43 PM
...and congrats on the new job.   [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: darylbowden on October 16, 2008, 09:23:05 PM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 16, 2008, 08:13:43 PM
...and congrats on the new job.   [thumbsup]

Thank you very much.  I'm very excited to be working for HUGE (http://www.hugeinc.com) who is one of the very best there are in my industry.  Hopefully this means I'll be able to get back on the track more often and finally take that CSS Level I class.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Capo on October 17, 2008, 02:30:01 AM
The neutral position sensor, is a spring loaded contact screwed into the rear of the crankcase and contacts the gear selector drum. The selector drum has a ring of non- conductive material around the contact path EXCEPT at the neutral postion. The sensor has a single 'hot' wire, when in the neutral position the circuit to ground is completed via the sensor contact and the selector drum.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 05:29:01 AM
Quote from: Capo on October 17, 2008, 02:30:01 AM
The neutral position sensor, is a spring loaded contact screwed into the rear of the crankcase and contacts the gear selector drum. The selector drum has a ring of non- conductive material around the contact path EXCEPT at the neutral postion. The sensor has a single 'hot' wire, when in the neutral position the circuit to ground is completed via the sensor contact and the selector drum.
That's one way of doing it...

Often a shift drum will just have a depression at the neutral location that the plunger drops in to.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Capo on October 17, 2008, 09:34:50 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 05:29:01 AM
That's one way of doing it...

Often a shift drum will just have a depression at the neutral location that the plunger drops in to.

Indeed but Ducati uses the insulation method.
I fiited the corse billet selector that does not have the insulation band so now I have a permanent neutral light. (at least until I get into the instrument cluster)
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: darylbowden on October 17, 2008, 09:36:17 AM
Quote from: Capo on October 17, 2008, 09:34:50 AM
Indeed but Ducati uses the insulation method.
I fiited the corse billet selector that does not have the insulation band so now I have a permanent neutral light. (at least until I get into the instrument cluster)

UNfortunately, this is my Husky so it may be different.  I hope to know the answer today though.  I'll be jumpering away in a minute  [thumbsup]
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Capo on October 17, 2008, 09:42:32 AM
Quote from: darylbowden on October 17, 2008, 09:36:17 AM
UNfortunately, this is my Husky so it may be different.  I hope to know the answer today though.  I'll be jumpering away in a minute  [thumbsup]

Ahh, I should have read the OP post more closely  :-[  Sorry.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 09:56:30 AM
Quote from: Capo on October 17, 2008, 09:42:32 AM
Ahh, I should have read the OP post more closely  :-[  Sorry.
I kind of figured you missed that. ;)

Also the earlier bikes don't use the non-conductive ring.

That is a fairly recent 'innovation'. [sarcasm applies]
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Capo on October 17, 2008, 10:02:34 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 09:56:30 AM
I kind of figured you missed that. ;)

Also the earlier bikes don't use the non-conductive ring.

That is a fairly recent 'innovation'. [sarcasm applies]

Thanks, I'm thinking about putting a dimple on the drum and using a spring plunger switch, if I used one from an earlier year, I probably wouldnt have to worry about the detent pressure affecting the change.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 10:09:12 AM
Quote from: Capo on October 17, 2008, 10:02:34 AM
Thanks, I'm thinking about putting a dimple on the drum and using a spring plunger switch, if I used one from an earlier year, I probably wouldnt have to worry about the detent pressure affecting the change.
Personally I don't think it would affect things enough to notice. Might make neutral more positive.

I'm not positive, but I don't believe they changed the actual workings of the shift mechanism.

If you have an S4R you should be able to use the drum from any 6 speed.

Any differences in thread size on the switch could be worked around by sourcing the correct switch.

The testastretta motor may be different, but I would almost bet that you could do the same.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Capo on October 17, 2008, 10:15:29 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 10:09:12 AM
Personally I don't think it would affect things enough to notice. Might make neutral more positive.

I'm not positive, but I don't believe they changed the actual workings of the shift mechanism.

If you have an S4R you should be able to use the drum from any 6 speed.

Any differences in thread size on the switch could be worked around by sourcing the correct switch.

The testastretta motor may be different, but I would almost bet that you could do the same.

Yeah but I paid $500 for the drum  :'(
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 10:17:14 AM
Quote from: Capo on October 17, 2008, 10:15:29 AM
Yeah but I paid $500 for the drum  :'(
The one with the ring?
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Capo on October 17, 2008, 10:21:41 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 10:17:14 AM
The one with the ring?

No its billet aluminium, needed special selector forks as well as the slots for the rollers are wider.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 10:26:06 AM
Ouch....

so the $500 magnified to how much with all the incidentals?
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Capo on October 17, 2008, 11:10:59 AM
Quote from: ducpainter on October 17, 2008, 10:26:06 AM
Ouch....

so the $500 magnified to how much with all the incidentals?

About $650
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Speeddog on October 17, 2008, 11:38:48 AM
Quote from: Capo on October 17, 2008, 11:10:59 AM
About $650

+ splitting the cases, right?  ;D
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Capo on October 17, 2008, 12:03:42 PM
Quote from: Speeddog on October 17, 2008, 11:38:48 AM
+ splitting the cases, right?  ;D

Yeah but there is a ton of other work going on as well, now that the racing season is over, I can get in the shop and put it all back together.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Howley on October 17, 2008, 09:31:02 PM
As an aside, how the bleep do you get the neutral switch out, and does oil piss out of the hole if you take it out?
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: Speeddog on October 17, 2008, 10:55:02 PM
Quote from: Howley on October 17, 2008, 09:31:02 PM
As an aside, how the bleep do you get the neutral switch out, and does oil piss out of the hole if you take it out?

Not having done it, I'd say using a deep socket with vise grips on it.

No significant amount of oil should come out, as it's well above the oil level.
Title: Re: Neutral Light
Post by: ducpainter on October 18, 2008, 05:42:08 AM
I used a box end wrench I think.

Once loose it spins out by hand.