This may be old news... but looks like TX decided to let bikes split lanes in heavy traffic...
from http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/html/SB00506I.htm (http://www.legis.state.tx.us/tlodocs/81R/billtext/html/SB00506I.htm)
A BILL TO BE ENTITLED
AN ACT
relating to the operation and movement of motorcycles during
periods of traffic congestion.
BE IT ENACTED BY THE LEGISLATURE OF THE STATE OF TEXAS:
SECTION 1. Section 545.060, Transportation Code, is amended
by amending Subsection (a) and adding Subsection (e) to read as
follows:
(a) An operator on a roadway divided into two or more
clearly marked lanes for traffic:
(1) shall drive as nearly as practical entirely within
a single lane, except as provided by Subsection (e); and
(2) may not move from the lane unless that movement can
be made safely.
(e) The operator of a motorcycle may operate the motorcycle
for a safe distance between lanes of traffic moving in the same
direction during periods of traffic congestion if:
(1) notwithstanding Section 661.003(c), the operator
and any passenger wear protective headgear that meets the safety
standards adopted by the department; and
(2) the operator operates the motorcycle:
(A) at a speed not more than five miles per hour
greater than the speed of the other traffic;
(B) in traffic that is moving at a speed of 20
miles per hour or less; and
(C) in a location other than a school crossing
zone or a location where the posted speed limit is 20 miles per hour
or less.
SECTION 2. This Act takes effect September 1, 2009.
And again, all we need to do now is to get that information stuck inside 4-wheelers minds. [leo]
Yeah... maybe we could talk some of the local news stations into running it... of course it would be a bit out of the norm for them since its not going to be a story about motorcycles doing illegal acts
yeah...i'd agree there should be a bigger push to educate drivers out there to be more aware of their surroundings and to be expecting more of it. i definitely don't see conditions currently being "ideal" for lane splitting...and don't feel like i want to be an "early adopter". especially on some roads (i'm looking at you, 75). it doesn't help matters that i imagine the typical person when they think of lane splitting is going to think of john q. squid flying past at high speeds... and some in cages get downright mean spirited about splitting and will purposefully pull out in front of you... how do you change crap like that in a place like dallas?
BECAREFULL!! I use to live in Cali and I did a ton of lane splitting until I was hit by an old woman who decided to move over a bit so I couldn't get threw. Lucky for me we were moving slow and it only bumped me over, but it did crush one of my pipes, due to the highway bar got bent. I then pulled aside her to get her attention and she ignored me, so I kicked a huge dent in her passenger door and cruised away!
Just be carefull
but lane splitting did save a ton of time!
ONLY if the traffic is going 20 mph or less, & you can only go 5 mph faster than the traffic
I'm with y'all 100% on this one; it's a good thing but there is no way in hell I'd lane-split until a serious education campaign from somebody - TX/DoT and DPS would be the likely candidates - is implemented and running at least a year! I've seen too many deliberately aggressive manuevers from cagers trying to kill motorcyclists just on a daily basis for me to even consider lane-splitting. I mean even if The Law is on your side, you're still gonna be flat :P
Maybe while they're at it, the DPS could run an educational ad campaign just to refresh everyones memory about vehicular manslaughter since there obviously seems to be a widespread disconnect between aggressive driving behavior and potential consequences.
Phew, almost fell off my soap box there! I'm crawling back into my hole now... Carry on ;D
they should install counters in cars that keep track of lane movements and ticket idiots who cross over and over and over and over and over. I know that sounds like BS but people in TX are some of the country's worst, IMO.
This is good news, it allows for 'generally' safe splitting.
I.e. stop go traffic on tollway/highway will no longer be a problem, waiting in a queue at lights for 2+ sequences will be a thing of the past.
The 20mph/ 5mph over limit is fine, this is what holds us up, once traffic is moving it's better to stay with it than try and beat it.
Quote from: Cher on February 24, 2009, 12:55:47 PM
Maybe while they're at it, the DPS could run an educational ad campaign just to refresh everyones memory about vehicular manslaughter since there obviously seems to be a widespread disconnect between aggressive driving behavior and potential consequences.
Don't get me started on the ad campaigns here, they seam based around how much it will cost you financially, not what could happen. I'm used to ads that show graphic details, not a car full of floating olives.
yeah, growing up in Venezuela there are no advertising laws but people notice the gory (did I spell that right) adds.
While i'm not a proponent of helmet or seatbelt laws in general, i do like the requirement of wearing one should you choose to split. Sort of like being required to wear one at a track day.
Steve
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on February 24, 2009, 11:58:23 AM
yeah...i'd agree there should be a bigger push to educate drivers out there to be more aware of their surroundings and to be expecting more of it. i definitely don't see conditions currently being "ideal" for lane splitting...and don't feel like i want to be an "early adopter". especially on some roads (i'm looking at you, 75). it doesn't help matters that i imagine the typical person when they think of lane splitting is going to think of john q. squid flying past at high speeds... and some in cages get downright mean spirited about splitting and will purposefully pull out in front of you... how do you change crap like that in a place like dallas?
Rocket launcher? Large bore handgun? All the usual persuaders. [moto]
Quote from: Duc L'Smart on February 24, 2009, 12:41:36 PM
ONLY if the traffic is going 20 mph or less, & you can only go 5 mph faster than the traffic
So....where does Dallas traffic actually go faster than 20? I wear my MC boots out faster than my tires. [cheeky] [cheeky]
I was lane splitting the other day at around 80 mph heading up (and back again) to Ventura. [moto]
Let's just say it's a different kind of congestion out here; practically bumper to bumper at 65 mph is very common.
But I'll take 5 mph over 20 mph traffic in Texas any day. Ever hear of the camel getting his nose under the edge of the tent? [clap]
no lane splitting for me thanks. people are crazy around here. dont want to be the motorcycle in a super duty truck sandwich.
Quote from: calscrazy on February 24, 2009, 06:24:00 PM
no lane splitting for me thanks. people are crazy around here. dont want to be the motorcycle in a super duty truck sandwich.
+1 Chris--no matter what laws are passed, you can't legislate stupid away. :P
no but you can breed stupid away. crap, there I go again on my breeding soap box. [popcorn]
Seriously, since we're talking about low (hopefully non-fatal) speeds, I wonder if mounting a camera on the front of the bike to capture any aggressive vehicular assaults might be a way to get the ball rolling. People start to pay attention to lawsuits and/or jail time - when they see it on the news. :( >:(
Those cams don't cost very much and might just be very good for "instructional" purposes. I bet the TV news would pay for them, even if a crash weren't involved.
OK, time for my meds.
George
Quote from: caffeinejunkee on February 24, 2009, 06:26:02 PM
+1 Chris--no matter what laws are passed, you can't legislate stupid away. :P
Now I wonder if the reason we can't legislate stupid away is because we've ELECTED stupid to begin with. Hmmm.
[popcorn]
Regardless of the speed involved, I feel safer if I'm going faster than the idiots.
Quote from: NorDog on February 24, 2009, 09:20:01 PM
Regardless of the speed involved, I feel safer if I'm going faster than the idiots.
I'll start lane splitting again in a heartbeat...
Quote from: The Svoloch on February 25, 2009, 05:18:50 AM
I'll start lane splitting again in a heartbeat...
I'm practising already. [moto]
i've ordered some mirrors (finally)...maybe this isn't such a bad idea. i just need to remind myself not to do it after consuming [drink]
http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/BillStages.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=SB506 (http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/BillStages.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=SB506)
The bill has only been filed and hasn't even gone to comittee yet, so there is a long road ahead. Two years ago the same bill never made it out of comittee.
don't get me wrong. I would do it again in a heartbeat! I loved cruising past a 1/4 mile of cars to get to the front of line at a stop light.
Seriously, if and that's a big IF this gets passed how would the group feel about getting with the AMA, Radio/TV/Papers, DPS to get some education going?
Steve
if it would get the ball rolling, yeah.
Quote from: sdlrodeo on February 25, 2009, 08:34:34 PM
Seriously, if and that's a big IF this gets passed how would the group feel about getting with the AMA, Radio/TV/Papers, DPS to get some education going?
Steve
I'd also be interested--got something in mind?
I'm not sure how this works, but would it do any good to contact our reps in the state senate yet or is it not at that stage yet?
Steve
Quote from: sdlrodeo on February 26, 2009, 05:49:07 AM
I'm not sure how this works, but would it do any good to contact our reps in the state senate yet or is it not at that stage yet?
Steve
Good idea Steve. Judging by the link (http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/BillStages.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=SB506) Drjones posted, it looks like theres still a long road ahead before this is passed. Maybe we should start contacting the suits to show our support and also ask about public awareness options. If anyone has/finds contact info, please post up so we can show our support.
I'm with most folks here in that I think it's a policy that makes sense, but with the level of idiocy on the roads here I'd be VERY cautious doing it.
Quote from: dallas2r on February 26, 2009, 07:55:13 AM
Good idea Steve. Judging by the link (http://www.legis.state.tx.us/BillLookup/BillStages.aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=SB506) Drjones posted, it looks like theres still a long road ahead before this is passed. Maybe we should start contacting the suits to show our support and also ask about public awareness options. If anyone has/finds contact info, please post up so we can show our support.
I'm with most folks here in that I think it's a policy that makes sense, but with the level of idiocy on the roads here I'd be VERY cautious doing it.
A link for your specific representative (State and Federal will appear): http://www.fyi.legis.state.tx.us
Texas - House of Reps: http://www.house.state.tx.us/members/welcome.php
Texas - Senate: http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/Members/Members.aspx?Chamber=S
Too big to post all of the names. Just sent my email and support of this bill to my state senator - with my disagreement of having to wear protective gear when lane splitting. It's about freedom of choice.
For the record:
This along with the "one-plate" law goes before the TX legislature every two years. Every two years it gets defeated. It is usually involved in a larger bill and then gets shaved off so the bill will pass.
Good luck though.
I, for one, am completely astonished that our elected officials would even consider helping reduce gridlock by passing a lane-splitting law. I mean all of that law-making stuff takes valuable time; time that could be much better used in approving the next congressional pay raise, for example.
[bang] [bang] [bang]
If I want to "lane split" I do, nothing else to say.
Quote from: TresGatos on March 02, 2009, 08:41:22 PM
If I want to "lane split" I do, nothing else to say.
If that's your prerogative that's your choice, much like passing on double yellows or doing trip digits,but this is about the legality of lane splitting. As of now lane splitting leaves you basically no protection if you do so (inherently that it
is moving violation), the legislation that is in progress is about our right to choose to lane split.
Just my $0.02.
And btw, I don't think it'll make it out of committee
last I read lane splitting is not addressed in the state code although they can ticket you for many other reasons not the least of which is to increase state revenue. this is all BS IMO. lane splitting is one of the few things CA has done perfectly.
Quote from: Cher on March 02, 2009, 06:52:15 PM
I, for one, am completely astonished that our elected officials would even consider helping reduce gridlock by passing a lane-splitting law. I mean all of that law-making stuff takes valuable time; time that could be much better used in approving the next congressional pay raise, for example.
[bang] [bang] [bang]
easing congestion wont do a thing for their re-election. they gotta keep promising to help remember.
ok, off to lie down and watch Cspan for entertainment
IIRC it is actually addressed, but not in the strict terms of "lane splitting." Lane sharing is not allowed in Texas per the Texas DOT handbook pg 16
Pg 16 states that "LANE SHARING
Cars and motorcycles need a full
lane to operate safely. Lane sharing
is usually prohibited."
IMO that leaves too much in the hands of a 3rd party to decide if it is legal. That's a limb that I'm not going to go out on. As is, it is your choice to split lanes, but before I make a habit of it, I'd like there to be some legislation on my side
*edit*
Pg 16 is from the Driver's license handbook, but I imagine that the policy would be reciprocal for motorcycles sharing with cages
It may get passed this time. I do not understand how laws are passed here but if I read this right the person who submitted this is the chairman of the transport committee and their spokesman is the director.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's going to help everybody get faster."
Stephen Polunsky is the director of the Texas Senate Committee on Transportation and Homeland security. He's also the spokesman for State Senator John Carona of Dallas, who chairs the committee. Carona has filed Senate Bill 506, which would make lane-splitting legal in Texas.
http://app1.kuhf.org/houston_public_radio-news-display.php?articles_id=1235780269 (http://app1.kuhf.org/houston_public_radio-news-display.php?articles_id=1235780269)
Quote from: muskrat on March 02, 2009, 09:33:09 PM
easing congestion wont do a thing for their re-election. they gotta keep promising to help remember.
ok, off to lie down and watch Cspan for entertainment
[laugh] Very true. Sad - but true.
Quote from: andym on March 03, 2009, 07:09:42 AM
It may get passed this time. I do not understand how laws are passed here but if I read this right the person who submitted this is the chairman of the transport committee and their spokesman is the director.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"It's going to help everybody get faster."
Stephen Polunsky is the director of the Texas Senate Committee on Transportation and Homeland security. He's also the spokesman for State Senator John Carona of Dallas, who chairs the committee. Carona has filed Senate Bill 506, which would make lane-splitting legal in Texas.
http://app1.kuhf.org/houston_public_radio-news-display.php?articles_id=1235780269 (http://app1.kuhf.org/houston_public_radio-news-display.php?articles_id=1235780269)
Yes Carona was the one...hence, why I emailed him an email stating my support for the bill.
Talking on this forum does nothing to get the bill passed...if you're interested, please contact your state representative. I added links for you to determine who you need to contact.
I nominate Bryant as our legal counsel. [thumbsup]
Second?
Votes?
Passes!
[moto]
From the THCM--seems the hearing is next week, and support is needed; OP sheds light on some of the arguments against:
http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=20411.msg0#new (http://ducatimonsterforum.org/index.php?topic=20411.msg0#new)
I have just read this on tinternet..
*****************************************************
Good news out of the Transportation and Homeland Security committee:
I just contacted my Senator, Kirk Watson, and found out that he voted in favor of the bill and that the bill has been reported favourably by the Transportation committee. SB 506 is now available for placement on the Senate calendar. A calendar is a list of bills and resolutions that are scheduled to be considered by the full house or senate.
It's best just to not do it
It's getting there but what a long process it has to go through. Only two of the seven completed.
***********************************************
Stage 1
Bill filed by Carona on 1/21/2009.
Stage 2
Bill reported out of Senate committee on Transportation & Homeland Security with vote of 7 Ayes, 2 Nays, 0 Present Not Voting, 0 Absent.
Stage 3
Not reached.
Stage 4
Not reached.
Stage 5
Not reached.
Stage 6
Not reached.
Stage 7
Not reached.
***********************************************
Last Action: 03/24/2009 S Placed on intent calendar
Subjects: Vehicles & Traffic--Rules of Road (I0860) MOTORCYCLES (S0782)
Senate Committee: Transportation & Homeland Security
Status: Out of committee
Vote: Ayes=7 Nays=2 Present Not Voting=0 Absent=0
Actions: (descending date order)
Description Comment Date Time Journal Page
S Placed on intent calendar 03/24/2009
S Committee report printed and distributed 03/20/2009 11:11 AM
S Reported favorably w/o amendments 03/20/2009 642
S Testimony taken in committee 03/18/2009
S Considered in public hearing 03/18/2009
S Scheduled for public hearing on . . . 03/18/2009
S Referred to Transportation & Homeland Sec. 02/17/2009 268
S Read first time 02/17/2009 268
S Filed 01/21/2009
S Received by the Secretary of the Senate 01/21/2009
Thanks Andy, good info.
Quote from: Tommy on March 23, 2009, 05:53:04 PM
It's best just to not do it
look who's talking :P
Pretty cool info - Thanks Andy
Quote from: Cher on March 24, 2009, 08:06:22 AM
Thanks Andy, good info.
Quote from: Ronr on March 24, 2009, 06:33:48 PM
Pretty cool info - Thanks Andy
I keep looking at the SB 506 bill page hoping for each stage to be passed.
I really want this to pass, for me this is a benefit of riding. I know some do not feel it is a good idea but that is where choice comes in.
Quote from: andym on March 25, 2009, 06:59:04 AM
I know some do not feel it is a good idea but that is where choice comes in.
I know there are a number of people here who think lane splitting is a bad idea, and maybe in Texas, for now, it is. But how many of them have been stuck on the highway for two hours (in a 65 mph zone) literally going 10 miles an hour for two car lengths and then stopping comletely for 10 seconds, and then going 10 miles an hour for two car lengths and then stopping comletely for 10 seconds, going 10 miles an hour for two car lengths and then stopping comletely for 10 seconds,
ad infinitum?
Okay, not
ad infinitum, but for two hours, or an hour. How many can put up with this for even 15 minutes? Especially when one can easily see that one can easily zip right around someone.
At some point one realizes that lane splitting is actually safer than being a sitting target, sitting in static in some frustrated driver's blind spot for hours at a time.
That's why so many in SoCal lane split without a second thought. The other day I saw a CHP officer lane splitting with a Z1 rider right behind him. The week before that I saw two CHP officers splitting the lane.
At some point traffic becomes so bad that a motorcyclist has no other choice, especially an air cooled machine in the summer time. Well, there is one other choice: Drive your car and sit for a couple of hours to dirve 25 miles.
i hope it passes just so that there is one more incentive to ride a bike instead of a car, and in turn help cut down on the overall traffic congestion here.
that and it absolutely sucks balls to be sitting on the highway stopped in the middle of the day in the middle of summer, in full gear. i don't know about the rest of you, but texas summers are dangerous for me...i dehydrate very quickly when the air is no longer moving...
They have been busy today.
Stage 3 Bill passed the Senate
S Rules suspended-Regular order of business 03/25/2009
S Record vote 03/25/2009
S Read 2nd time & passed to engrossment 03/25/2009
S Vote recorded in Journal 03/25/2009
S Three day rule suspended 03/25/2009
S Record vote 03/25/2009
S Read 3rd time 03/25/2009
S Passed 03/25/2009
S Record vote 03/25/2009
S Reported engrossed 03/25/2009
huh....weird; i didn't think they actually did anything there...
I just got this from another riding group in Dallas:
This is the update that JUST came out!
Great news! The Texas senate has just passed the motorcycle lane sharing bill. Now it's up to the house. We're almost there!
Special thanks to Michael Lemm and Moira Zinn (who was there) and everyone who contacted their state senator to ask them for this bill.
I'll send another announcement with action items to help get it passed in the house when we have more info.
When the next info is sent out, I'll be sure to forward it on to you. I heard from a number of you that you jumped on your phones yesterday and made calls to your state Senator to voice your support. It worked! Thanks.....Raine
Very cool [thumbsup]
When this does pass I thnk the first people who should start splitting are the troopers! The city officers! With a bunch load HDs and Ducs right behind them so everyone can get the picture. All this during a mid-summer traffic jam in downtown Houston/Dallas/El Paso/Austin/San Antonio...etc. You get the picture. [thumbsup]
This does not look good. :(
Bill: SB 506
Legislative Session: 81(R) Council Document: 81R 4578 JAM-D
Last Action: 05/04/2009 H Withdrawn from schedule
:'(
not sure i'd do it if allowed. I filtered to the front of an intersection when traffic was backed up last week. y'know, just idled between the lanes of traffic up to the red while nobody was moving. When the light changed to green, the guy at the front of the line FLOORED IT and cut me off, not sure the point he was trying to prove since I had not inconvenienced him in the least. If anything, I'm helping congestion considerably. He literally tried to run me down. I do know that if he had been a little closer, you'd see your first Ducati on the First 48.
Quote from: ato memphis on April 30, 2009, 12:58:02 PM
not sure i'd do it if allowed. I filtered to the front of an intersection when traffic was backed up last week. y'know, just idled between the lanes of traffic up to the red while nobody was moving. When the light changed to green, the guy at the front of the line FLOORED IT and cut me off, not sure the point he was trying to prove since I had not inconvenienced him in the least. If anything, I'm helping congestion considerably. He literally tried to run me down. I do know that if he had been a little closer, you'd see your first Ducati on the First 48.
I know what you mean. I was at a light the other day on Legacy and this guy moved up to the front of the traffic on his motorcycle. I was caging it that day due to the wind. Anyways, this crazy lady on her cellphone floored it right when the light turned green and almost hit the poor guy. She hit her horn for about 30 seconds while after him. He didn't inconvenience her at all. She was just being a b@#ch! I was in my minivan and let her know how stupid she looked doing what she did.....she almost threw her phone at me. ;D I asked her what she would have done if she had accidentally killed the guy. She just looked at me with a totally stupid face. [roll]
Might've asked "What if you scared that guy shitless, he viewed your actions as quite hostile, and shot you. or your kids. let it go bertha, let it go"
Road Rage is real. People in cars have a huge deadly weapon. You "charge" at a guy on a bike, I'd be pretty sympathetic (depending on the facts) if he felt threatened and defended himself.
For laughs:
(http://logo.cafepress.com/8/6382992.5680058.jpg)
Quote from: ato memphis on April 30, 2009, 08:17:03 PM
For laughs:
(http://logo.cafepress.com/8/6382992.5680058.jpg)
That is classic! I especially like the little 'D' skull and cross bones. Are these stickers/t-shirts available? I'd pay a little for one or ten.
Steve
Absolutely. go to the Duc Cutters website: www.duccutters.com (//http://)
They also have the vector graphics for the "DUmake the beast with two backsINCATI" logo, which I find humorous. My wife does not though, so my tank logo stays the classic lettering. ho hum.
Quote from: ato memphis on May 01, 2009, 06:34:02 AM
Absolutely. go to the Duc Cutters website: www.duccutters.com (//http://) (//http://) (//http://)
LOL.....that is a relly cool website. [thumbsup] I might just purchase some for my kiddos. ;D
Quote from: Asia1098 on May 01, 2009, 08:33:38 AM
LOL.....that is a relly cool website. [thumbsup] I might just purchase some for my kiddos. ;D
+1.5
It's still on....
Actions: (descending date order)
Description Comment Date Time Journal Page
H Scheduled for public hearing on . . . 05/18/2009
yeah it was scheduled for house vote on the 4th too.. but they rescheduled it...
no update today yet on whether it passed/failed or was rescheduled again
please keep us posted. [coffee]
This is what happened yesterday, does anyone know what it means?
Read from bottom up.
H Left pending in committee 05/18/2009
H Testimony taken/registration(s) recorded in committee 05/18/2009
H Considered in public hearing 05/18/2009
H Scheduled for public hearing on . . . 05/18/2009
Quote from: andym on May 19, 2009, 07:15:06 AM
This is what happened yesterday, does anyone know what it means?
Read from bottom up.
H Left pending in committee 05/18/2009
H Testimony taken/registration(s) recorded in committee 05/18/2009
H Considered in public hearing 05/18/2009
H Scheduled for public hearing on . . . 05/18/2009
Not really sure but I do not like the way "left pending" sounds.... :P
No way I could lane split on the Hyper...those lengthy bars with mirrors on the end combined with two bubba's on either side riding in Ford F250 King Ranch's equals disaster. :o
Quote from: dhc8guru on May 21, 2009, 10:43:03 AM
No way I could lane split on the Hyper...those lengthy bars with mirrors on the end combined with two bubba's on either side riding in Ford F250 King Ranch's equals disaster. :o
Well, I hear that the greatness of the Hyper is you don't need no stinkin' lane splitting; you can ride the dirt shoulder. [thumbsup] [evil]
Quote from: dhc8guru on May 21, 2009, 10:43:03 AM
No way I could lane split on the Hyper...those lengthy bars with mirrors on the end combined with two bubba's on either side riding in Ford F250 King Ranch's equals disaster. :o
That's why you get rid of the OEM handguards/blinkers and put on a set of Acerbis guards and "lane splitter" mirrors [beer]
I lane splitted a wee bit in a nasty traffic jam yesterday. Lane closing, 18-wheeler merging, hot bike, cramping clutch hand... saw some wide open spaces, merged in some, split the lanes and moved up a few cars into a more stable area of the jam. Then I settled back in to my new spot. Nobody messed with me, but I didn't get too crazy with it, just a little experiment. I sure could see the benefit though.
that's funny, because i thought *someone* wasn't supposed to be on the bike....much less lane splitting! >:(
Quote from: ♣ McKraut ♣ on May 22, 2009, 05:24:42 AM
that's funny, because i thought *someone* wasn't supposed to be on the bike....much less lane splitting! >:(
It's physical (and mental) therapy. Shouldn't be a problem assuming everything goes perfectly. [thumbsup]
Make sure you get your deposit back on that titanium/magnesium hardware...
Shoulder mod party?
Can we remove that ourselves? Just need some vodka right? Maybe stuart has pointers...
He is MEAN with a torch
No torch! Just a sharp knife and a screwdriver
We have to cauterize it [thumbsup]
We could have a suicide girls mod party...
I am working on that. Not that group. Too much $$