The local ducati dealer removed my clutch to see its condition and voila!!
Any recommendations on getting the basket and a disc set cheap? [bang](http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk109/julianista/IMG_0296.jpg)
(http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk109/julianista/IMG_0300.jpg)
Did you buy the bike new?
whoa. i had mine out at 5500 miles and it looked perfect. there were even grind marks remaining on the friction material from when they were made. but i only ride the bike on sundays... when i go to church... i swear ;)
i couldn't imagine what would have done that to yours with the exception of very very high heat, but your friction material looks relatively ok.
how do you ride it? anything hat could have accelerated clutch wear and tear?
Quote from: julianista on June 12, 2008, 04:33:51 PM
The local ducati dealer removed my clutch to see its condition and voila!! Plates are broken/chipped and Basket has deep wear. see the pics.
Now the question is... how can a bike that has only 2,800 miles on it have such a worn out/broken clutch? Is it possible to ride a bike so hard to wear a clutch like this in 3k miles? I bought it used with 2,800 miles on it. I've had it less than a month.
Any recommendations on getting the basket and a disc set cheap? [bang]
Yes, it is possible. My clutch became 'problematic' at 10 000kms due to the previous owner (I bought the bike with 7000kms on it). I replaced the clutch plates immediately: the clutch basket needed to be replaced, but I was told it would be ok if I didn't ride the bike hard.
Well, at the 20 000km service, the clutch basket is still fine. I don't push the bike hard, but the previous owner must have been really punching it from the lights.
Replace everything. Bike'll feel fantastic. [thumbsup]
Your pics are kinda IZ_, but IMO, the clutch that came in your bike from the factory, is now in one of his other bikes.
That's a 20k+ street miles clutch.
Unlikely he messed with the odometer, since '02 when the electronic speedos were used across the board on Monsters, I haven't heard of even *one* that was reset.
AFAIK, its' impossible.
Sorry.
Barnett baskets are fairly cheap, and I think Motowheels has one that's not very expensive.
If you get an aluminum basket other than Barnett, make sure and get aluminum frictions.
<my $.02>
From your IZ_ pics, IMO, that's not a 3k miles clutch.
He may have been victimized by *his* mechanic.
He may have forgotten that he swapped it, or had his mechanic swap it.
Maybe he loaned his bike to a 'friend'.
Maybe the dealer he bought the bike from swapped it before he got it.
You'll never know.
I suggest that you approach it as diplomatically as possible with the PO.
Going in with guns blazing usually doesn't work.
</my $.02>
I would wonder if it wasn't a clutch from one of the previous owners track bikes as well, however, I would then wonder how he would have thrown the loose bits back into the bike. Perhaps he changed out the parts as soon as he bought the new bike, then put 2800 miles on the banged up clutch. I reckon the dealer pulled apart your clutch because you were complaining about noise or function? Something that wasn't there when you had test ridin the bike?
I think the aluminum frictions that Speeddog is refering to are the friction plates. If you switch to an aluminum clutch basket, you also need to switch to aluminum friction plates at the same time. You can't use steel plates with an aluminum basket.
I guess I would be pissed at previous owner. >:( That kind of damage at 2800 miles just seems wrong. But, best to try to figure everything out before you start pointing fingers.
I think he unplugged the guages, you should be able to tell by his body language if he is lying, watch for his eyes shifting to the left...
Problem is, even if you can prove it, which you really cannot, what can you do about it?
This type of stuff sucks and you can only hope if he is dishonest that karma will bite him hard.
Quote from: julianista on June 12, 2008, 05:44:38 PM
Can anyone do such damage on a clutch in 3k miles?
I can't imagine how. Sorry.
Quote from: Speeddog on June 12, 2008, 05:08:30 PM
Your pics are kinda IZ_, but IMO, the clutch that came in your bike from the factory, is now in one of his other bikes.
That's a 20k+ street miles clutch.
...
that makes the most sense. the bike won't run with the gauges unplugged from what i have read.
just another case of buyer beware. unless he offers to help you out i don't think there is much you can do [bang]
Quote from: aaronb on June 12, 2008, 06:17:15 PM
that makes the most sense. the bike won't run with the gauges unplugged from what i have read.
just another case of buyer beware. unless he offers to help you out i don't think there is much you can do [bang]
True, the bike WILL NOT run with the gauges unplugged...
Quote from: julianista on June 12, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
I did no mean unplugged. I meant he replaced the original with 20k miles with a new one with zero miles and then just rode it for 2,800 and said.. here.. take this brand new bike.. [bang]
I believe the clutch swap scenerio is more likely.
Yeah, that's quite a few hoops (and several hundred dollars) to jump through...
Quote from: Count Desmo on June 12, 2008, 06:30:06 PM
I believe the clutch swap scenerio is more likely.
+1
Either that or he totally beat the shit out of the bike for 2800 miles and sold it when things started to go wrong. Hope you didn't pick a lemon.
Quote from: julianista on June 12, 2008, 09:19:08 PM
It seems to be a consensus that there is no way to wear a clutch like this in 3k miles no matter what kind of an a#$%^& you are to your bike.
Now, what about the possibility of replacing the old gauge with a new one? Replace a faulty gauge with 20k miles for a new one with zero miles on it, then ride it for 3k and just say it has only 3k miles. Is there any way of knowing what mileage the bike really has if the gauge has been replaced?
I don't believe there's a way to determine the actual mileage if the gauges have been switched.
That said, I agree with the others that the clutch swap sounds most likely. If the bike had like 20K miles you'd be able to tell. The seat would definitely be worn, and the bike as a whole would be worn a little (chips in rim paint, dirty engine, etc). If it looked like it only had 2,800 miles on it then it probably did. He could have kept it pristine, but not likely if the clutch was that f'ed up.
I'd just buy a new clutch and get on with life. There's always some risk when buying a used bike.
The law requires him to note on the title if the mileage on the odometer isn't actual mileage...
Quote from: NAKID on June 12, 2008, 10:05:36 PM
The law requires him to note on the title if the mileage on the odometer isn't actual mileage...
True.
Depends how much the OP's time and energy are worth to pursue it.
It sucks to get taken on a deal.
But getting a little bling and getting back on the bike is a good way to leave it behind.
If that is the original clutch, i think there would be other signs of damage. Are the tires OEM? How do they look? I would look closely at the valve train for carbon deposits and other things like that to see if the actual milage is higher than 2800.
My guess is that you got a bike with 2800 miles and a well used clutch from another bike.
put the broken clutch pieces along with your poop in a paper bag, set it on fire on his porch, and run.
He will figure it out from there.
I don't necessarily "baby" any of my bikes and the Ducatis see a lot of abuse on the mountain twsities between elevation changes and constant gear changes. My OEM ST2 clutch has nearly 36k miles on it and it's still 100x's better than that clutch.
Quote from: eesnas on June 12, 2008, 06:11:01 PM
I think he unplugged the guages, you should be able to tell by his body language if he is lying, watch for his eyes shifting to the left...
Common misperception here. Without doing a proper "baseline", there is no way to tell if this is what he does when making something up.
The good ole switch a roooo!!!!!
Bummer on that clutch... well you're coming up on the 6k service anyways - so might as well knock that out while it's in the shop.
Quote from: julianista on June 12, 2008, 06:27:34 PM
I did no mean unplugged. I meant he replaced the original with 20k miles with a new one with zero miles and then just rode it for 2,800 and said.. here.. take this brand new bike.. [bang]
you would not have to unplug the gauges to stop the odo. all you do is change the break rotor to a race type with out sensor pins or just unhook the sensor at the rear break mount and wire it to the break carrier. the bike would run fine but you would have no speed/miles show on gauges! just my 2 cents . but if the bike looks as good as you say it would be hard to believe that it could have so many miles. Is this the bike on your avatar?. I wonder if maybe he had a buddy that roach that clutch some how knowing guy was selling bike they swap it out. there no end to the questions about that clutch. that thing is roached so bad that the cush drive may have damage. but as I'm typing I just thought to my self!!!! maybe he broke it trying to remove clutch basket or something? [roll] I dont remember but was the basket tangs really grooved out?....any way I'm just really interested in this I cant imagine even dumping the clutch hard every time would do that ? [roll]
My bet is old racebike clutch parts into the low mile S4R basket so he could run the racebike one weekend. Go ride the S4R hard for awhile forgetting the junk parts are in there. Here is the result. (your pictures) If a private party acquisition -- you really don't have much recourse -- it would cost more $$$/time to deal with then the return. Thus upgrade the basket / clutch parts as required.
As for the bike? If you have no service records for it -- and given it being a few years old -- I'd assume "no service" done. Belts and probably a decent tuneup are required and cheap insurance for yourself now against further problems in the future.
I just looked at the pics again....THERE IS NO WAY THOSE PLATES AND BASKET CAME FROM THAT BIKE 2800 MI ON THAT CLUTCH MY ASS! that bike would look like that clutch before all that !!! sorry dude you got hosed on that deal! unless he gave you a smokin deal on that bike knowing that you needed to replace that clutch......And if he was at the track and was in a bind and needed to snatch the clutch out of that bike I could see that but to put that thing back in that bike why? no way! well I dont know what he sold or told you but putting that clutch in a bag with poop a pretty good idea! also a good ol fashion red brick through window ;D.........anyway 2800mi NO WAY ........just get it replaced and go ride you forget all about dude! [thumbsup]
Approach the seller, tell him that your mechanic said the clutch was probably swapped out and see if he'll cover the cost of a new clutch. Don't tell him a bunch of guys on the internet said so after seeing some pics off your phone. If he's refuses then ask him to cover half. Give the guy a few options, maybe try to set a set of spare track days tires he might have lying around, an extra jacket or helmet try to yet something. If he refuses to do anything for you kick him in the nuts and run.
Don't loose too much sleep over it, if you can get something back cool. If not write it off as some people are A**holes and will get there's in the end. But don't let this take away from your summer of riding, it just one more story to tell about your bike.
Quote from: DucDodgers on June 13, 2008, 10:43:12 AM
Approach the seller, tell him that your mechanic said the clutch was probably swapped out and see if he'll cover the cost of a new clutch. Don't tell him a bunch of guys on the internet said so after seeing some pics off your phone. If he's refuses then ask him to cover half. Give the guy a few options, maybe try to set a set of spare track days tires he might have lying around, an extra jacket or helmet try to yet something. If he refuses to do anything for you kick him in the nuts and run.
Don't loose too much sleep over it, if you can get something back cool. If not write it off as some people are A**holes and will get there's in the end. But don't let this take away from your summer of riding, it just one more story to tell about your bike.
here here [thumbsup] but as to used track tires they are worth less you dont won't them... you would be wasting you time with them. but if the guy did'nt tell you about the clutch then I think you would also be wasting you time with him as well.
How could you complain since you got such a good deal? Ummm maybe because he didn't tell you the bike was freakin broken. What an ass....
Quote from: julianista on June 13, 2008, 01:53:44 PM
Anyways, if you know this guy's nickname..maybe the moderators could do some cyber justice and ban him from this forum for being a real life crook!
I removed the name and location you posted as that is against forum rules. This is very different than having an issue with a company. If the guy shows up and starts selling bikes here regularly then you can post in those threads and tell the entire story. But we won't have this place used to form lynch mobs over individual sales.
I feel for you and agree you got screwed. But that is a personal matter and the forum admins can not and will not get involved in it. Sorry.
I might suspect that the guage pack may have failed once and was replaced.. Might ask the previous owner or see if the shop he had the bike serviced at has any record of a swap.
How many miles do you guys get on a clutch??
I am on my third clutch pack at 15000 miles.
Just put it in. It will need a new basket on the next change.
So mine are lasting around 6-7 thousand miles.
Quote from: julianista on June 13, 2008, 01:53:44 PM
I really appreciate everyone's posts, support and advise. The worse of all is that I won't be able to ride my bike until its fixed.
Now, I talked to the previous owner and even emailed him the pictures of the clutch. He says that he does not know how that could have happened since he is not a tech. He assured me that he never swapped them. Also, that how could I complaint about it being that he gave me such a good deal on the bike. Bottom line is that he is a liar and an ass! I won't be getting a penny from him, BUT.. since we did the transaction on eBay, I may qualify for buyer's protection. I may be reimbursed by eBay! I am waiting for them to reply and tell me how to proceed with a claim and what can I get back if anything, maybe pay the replacement parts and labor. I will let you all know how this develops so that you know what to do if this should ever happen to you on eBay.
Do you believe in KARMA? ;) don't worry about it,what goes around comes around.Hope you get your ride soon!!!
Quote from: phildo on June 13, 2008, 05:17:14 PM
How many miles do you guys get on a clutch??
I am on my third clutch pack at 15000 miles.
Just put it in. It will need a new basket on the next change.
So mine are lasting around 6-7 thousand miles.
That sounds a bit low to me. You must be REALLY hard on those clutches...
Yep those are most certainly not from that bike. Unless he did nothing but bang gears from a dead stop over and over again for 3000 miles I don't think there is anyway you could end up with a set of plates looking like that. My 13000 mile plates didn't even look that bad.
The most expensive part will be the basket and the labor to change the basket unless you have the right tools. Baskets are like $250 plus whatever labor. The plates themselves are not bad at all if you get a Barnett pack, I think they are around $150.
Have the rest of the bike looked over real carefully by the mech just to be safe.
Hey it happens....I bought my first car when I was 16. I saved up for almost 2 years and a guy I worked with told me his brother was selling a car and he could get me a deal on it. So I purchased the car from his brother. 2 weeks later the motor grenaded. A few months later I learned him and his brother knew the car was toast and had rigged something to make it run for a bit longer so they could sell it.
I was pissed but I learned a good lesson. [thumbsup]
If it's just the clutch, I wouldn't feel too bad if I were you. Life's too short to let it get to you. Pay the bill and get out and ride! [thumbsup]
You would be surprised at what some people can do to a bike. A few years back I saw a 748arrive for it's 600 mile service in the back of a truck. Why in the back of a truck you ask? Rashed on both sides, burnt clutch, hole in the engine case from the snapped chain.
Quote from: julianista on June 15, 2008, 07:37:07 PM
I wanted to update this thread to let everyone know that there's still honest and fair people in this world.
I got lucky and the previous owner of my bike is one of those people!
He agreed to pay for half of the cost of repairing the clutch. I think that is a fair offer. Someone else wouldn't even return my emails. He already submitted a payment through paypal. So I am on the look for cheap plates and basket. Any advise? [thumbsup]
For the record: He swears that the clutch you see on the pics is the original clutch with real 3k miles. This guy is serious I do believe him.
So we can conclude that it is possible to somehow wear and break plates in the OEM clutch in 3k miles.
Good to hear! [thumbsup] Try www.ca-cycleworks.com (Chris is awesome) or www.desmotimes.com (LT has some nice clutch options) for a new clutch.
Quote from: phildo on June 13, 2008, 05:17:14 PM
How many miles do you guys get on a clutch??
I am on my third clutch pack at 15000 miles.
Just put it in. It will need a new basket on the next change.
So mine are lasting around 6-7 thousand miles.
I have 15K on my MTS1000 stock clutch. It's a little loud but still works great.
My M900 had 15K on the original clutch when I sold it...again, a little loud but worked great. Also did 3 trackdays on this bike.
Are you replacing yours based on the Ducati recommended tolerances? I ignore those, as my plates are well out of tolerance. My clutch will get replaced when it starts acting up.
Quote from: julianista on June 15, 2008, 07:37:07 PM
I wanted to update this thread to let everyone know that there's still honest and fair people in this world.
I got lucky and the previous owner of my bike is one of those people!
He agreed to pay for half of the cost of repairing the clutch. I think that is a fair offer. Someone else wouldn't even return my emails. He already submitted a payment through paypal. So I am on the look for cheap plates and basket. Any advise? [thumbsup]
For the record: He swears that the clutch you see on the pics is the original clutch with real 3k miles. This guy is serious I do believe him.
So we can conclude that it is possible to somehow wear and break plates in the OEM clutch in 3k miles.
You might want to go back and edit some of the bad things you said about this good guy.
Quote from: ducpainter on June 15, 2008, 08:11:14 PM
You might want to go back and edit some of the bad things you said about this good guy.
In case you did not notice.. I did that already. [thumbsup]
Quote from: julianista on June 15, 2008, 08:23:26 PM
In case you did not notice.. I did that already. [thumbsup]
I hadn't....
Great idea. ;D
Quote from: julianista on June 15, 2008, 07:37:07 PM
I wanted to update this thread to let everyone know that there's still honest and fair people in this world.
I got lucky and the previous owner of my bike is one of those people!
He agreed to pay for half of the cost of repairing the clutch. I think that is a fair offer. Someone else wouldn't even return my emails. He already submitted a payment through paypal. So I am on the look for cheap plates and basket. Any advise? [thumbsup]
For the record: He swears that the clutch you see on the pics is the original clutch with real 3k miles. This guy is serious I do believe him.
So we can conclude that it is possible to somehow wear and break plates in the OEM clutch in 3k miles.
It is possible to trash a clutch quicker than that but it is not common. I have seen customers who struggle with the hydraulic actuated clutch vs cable actuated they are familiar with. They attempt to slip the clutch lever out slowly while adding more revs..feeding it in so to speak. With the hydraulic system there is a more positive engagement point vs cable. Most assume the wet clutch vs dry clutch is the difficulty but I have found it has more to do with the engaging of the clutch. Attempt to continuously ride or slip the clutch and you will hammer it quickly..
Quote from: Dave R on June 15, 2008, 09:08:12 PM
Attempt to continuously ride or slip the clutch and you will hammer it quickly..
You mean feathering the clutch will prematurely wear it like that? by this I mean.. When slowing down and down shifting, instead of matching the revs to road speed by blipping the throttle, I feather it, (slowly let go of the clutch to match revs to speed and prevent locking the rear wheel )
Glad to hear the good news. [thumbsup]
Quote from: julianista on June 15, 2008, 09:20:04 PM
You mean feathering the clutch will prematurely wear it like that? by this I mean.. When slowing down and down shifting, instead of matching the revs to road speed by blipping the throttle, I feather it, (slowly let go of the clutch to match revs to speed and prevent locking the rear wheel )
I am referring to off the line, starting off. sorry for any confusion.
Quote from: julianista on June 15, 2008, 09:20:04 PM
You mean feathering the clutch will prematurely wear it like that? by this I mean.. When slowing down and down shifting, instead of matching the revs to road speed by blipping the throttle, I feather it, (slowly let go of the clutch to match revs to speed and prevent locking the rear wheel )
Normal riding certainly won't do do that to a clutch, and hard riding won't do that to a clutch in 3k miles. You'd have to beat the snot out of it pretty much constantly to get that kind of wear that quickly.