I got on the old site and there was some rumors about VS going forward with a lawsuit against the creators of this site. Something about a no-competetion clause?
Look at the source, it's coming from someone who has been lying the entire time he was on the DML. (Masked Marvel)
Don't forget their are 2 lawyers in the admin group here, and why would VS tell some dude named 'postwhore' about their legal issues?
That guy is just trying to stir shit, typical of him.
The mods weren't paid employees-they wouldn't have signed anything along the lines of a non-competition clause.
I can only speak for myself - VS never contacted me for any such agreement wt:
I think that Jeff H. (the owner who received money for the sale of the DML) is the only one who may have signed such an agreement.
I hope they succeed with the new DML, and I hope this board succeeds also.
I imagine this happens every time they roll out a purchased site redesign, and it is just water under the bridge for them.
mitt
I am not planning on losing any sleep on that issue at all.
Thought it sounded pretty stupid, there's thousands of pointless posts floating around there since yesterday.
Kind of along similar lines...
Think we will eventually manage to bring the sponsorship ring over here? I don't know what has to go on for that stuff to work out but I get the feeling that being a sponsor ties you to the site a bit more? Maybe no? has anyone contacted them about the change as well?
I'm no fan of corporations, ads, or canadians (jk), but I have to admit it seems a slight bit shady to me to make a new site like this.
How do you think Microsoft would have reacted if they had successfully bought Yahoo, only to find all the employees working, instead, at a brand new competitor named Yahooo (with the a strikingly similar way of operating as the original Yahoo), the very next day?
VS isn't microsoft, and the legality of it is certainly a much less big deal, but still... It's basically the same scenario.
To be clear, I don't care (then again, I don't care about stealing software off the net either...), I just want to be honest about what's happening here.
Think critically people.
QuoteHow do you think Microsoft would have reacted if they had successfully bought Yahoo, only to find all the employees working, instead, at a brand new competitor named Yahooo (with the a strikingly similar way of operating as the original Yahoo), the very next day?
The mods weren't employees and I think, are free to do what they wanted to.
Quote from: Alex on May 06, 2008, 08:00:11 PM
I'm no fan of corporations, ads, or canadians (jk), but I have to admit it seems a slight bit shady to me to make a new site like this.
How do you think Microsoft would have reacted if they had successfully bought Yahoo, only to find all the employees working, instead, at a brand new competitor named Yahooo (with the a strikingly similar way of operating as the original Yahoo), the very next day?
VS isn't microsoft, and the legality of it is certainly a much less big deal, but still... It's basically the same scenario.
To be clear, I don't care (then again, I don't care about stealing software off the net either...), I just want to be honest about what's happening here.
Think critically people.
I think that is a bit off for an analogy. VS is buying the user base, not the Mods. I'm sure the DML isn't going to take that big a hit membership wise. It's just going to lack the core characters and banter that it had. VS doesn't care about that as much as pure simple numbers they can sell to their advertisers.
It would be like if some department heads/managers in Yahoo (not board members) quit because they don't like Microsoft and get a job at Google. It's something that Microsoft expects to happen, but 90% of the employees are staying over.
Quote from: Alex on May 06, 2008, 08:00:11 PM
I'm no fan of corporations, ads, or canadians (jk), but I have to admit it seems a slight bit shady to me to make a new site like this.
How do you think Microsoft would have reacted if they had successfully bought Yahoo, only to find all the employees working, instead, at a brand new competitor named Yahooo (with the a strikingly similar way of operating as the original Yahoo), the very next day?
VS isn't microsoft, and the legality of it is certainly a much less big deal, but still... It's basically the same scenario.
To be clear, I don't care (then again, I don't care about stealing software off the net either...), I just want to be honest about what's happening here.
Think critically people.
Think critically?
Yahoo doesn't pay their people either than? They work for free? I am not going to mod a couple hours of day for nothing so VS Jim or Stew can make a living.
I don't steal anything btw, software included wt:
mitt
spooooooooooooon
Geez, I never said it was a perfect analogy! I said "basically" the same. ;D
I realize the mods were volunteers, and that they can do what they want. I also realize VS probably barely notices them gone.
You do have to admit though, this site is an awful lot like another website that we used to go to...
VS paid money for the DML because it had value, and even volunteers were a part of that value. I never worked for the DML, but I was part of that value too. Now we're all here, and that trend will continue, even if it obviously won't lead to the destruction of the DML user base.
I'm not worried about getting sued, but seeing the new DMF exactly the same as the old DML does make my "this is wrong" sense tingle just a little.
Quote from: pt33 on May 06, 2008, 08:08:29 PM
It would be like if some department heads/managers in Yahoo (not board members) quit because they don't like Microsoft and get a job at Google. It's something that Microsoft expects to happen, but 90% of the employees are staying over.
...No, it's like those managers got a job at Yahooo.
Quote from: Alex on May 06, 2008, 08:16:31 PM
Geez, I never said it was a perfect analogy! I said "basically" the same. ;D
I'm not worried about getting sued, but seeing the new DMF exactly the same as the old DML does make my "this is wrong" sense tingle just a little.
No worries ;D VS did a lot of other stuff behind the scenes, that maybe makes the dmf feel unguilty for us mods.
Plus, there are differences - The dmf is not as pretty, has more time out errors, and no image gallery wt:
The old DML was one of, if not, the best motorcycle forum on the web. Better than the dmf currently. A lot of that credit goes to Michael Moore, who spent oggles of time tweaking the theme just right, just to get it deleted with a click of the button. Maybe, one day, the dmf will be as good ;)
mitt
Quote from: Alex on May 06, 2008, 08:00:11 PM
I'm no fan of corporations, ads, or canadians (jk), but I have to admit it seems a slight bit shady to me to make a new site like this.
How do you think Microsoft would have reacted if they had successfully bought Yahoo, only to find all the employees working, instead, at a brand new competitor named Yahooo (with the a strikingly similar way of operating as the original Yahoo), the very next day?
VS isn't microsoft, and the legality of it is certainly a much less big deal, but still... It's basically the same scenario.
To be clear, I don't care (then again, I don't care about stealing software off the net either...), I just want to be honest about what's happening here.
Think critically people.
That's not really the case here... It's more like microsoft bought yahoo, coca-cola, ford, hershey's, and nike, then tried to put it all in one mall complex with every store having the same exact (inefficient and objectively inferior) layout, then put ads EVERYWHERE, then asked the current employees to continue working for free because of their passione for their respective areas.
Quote from: mitt on May 06, 2008, 08:24:54 PM
The old DML was one of, if not, the best motorcycle forum on the web. Better than the dmf currently. A lot of that credit goes to Michael Moore, who spent oggles of time tweaking the theme just right, just to get it deleted with a click of the button. Maybe, one day, the dmf will be as good ;)
one of the benefits of having a guy on staff that designs interfaces for a living.
A lawsuit will go no where very fast.
I may be way off here (I am a noob), but a better analogy seems to me to be thus:
This VS outfit buys a wall that guys have been doing graffiti on, legally. The guys doing the graffiti decide to go use a different wall that someone else owns, and spray the same graffiti on it.
:-\
Did they buy the wall and the graffiti?
It's like a small group of passionate guys had an offer for their business from a large entity that decided to do their own thing with the business in spite of reassurances...
oh wait, that's kind of what happened.
I'm not good at analogies
;)
Quote from: Alex on May 06, 2008, 08:16:31 PM
You do have to admit though, this site is an awful lot like another website that we used to go to...
Key word here is used to go to...the layout and DML that was, is no more. Not in tone, not in layout, not in useability (images, sigs, etc all non functioning). To blow something up and then cry that the old mods/admins have setup somewhere else is a farce.
I'm sure MM has all of his "old" work that he put in on the former (and now unused) layout. Since the SMF software is the same theoritically it could be as easy as a copy/paste function in a few key places to turn it back on here or anywhere else.
As far as legality of doing it. I'd have a hard time believing Jeff could/would sell the rights to MM interface and design and settings without MMs knowledge/approval. Even if he did since they are settings used on a piece of freeware the copywrite/trademark law would be hazy at best which equals costly fight (not that Statler couldnt use a D16RR to go along with his 4RS). VS or any company would probably just walk away.
Every day people leave a job and start up their own business, often competing with their former employer. In this case people were volunteers, not employees.
They bought the DML. Thats it
They didn't buy the mods. They didn't buy the people.
Lets say you bought a bar. You changed it all around, taking down the old jukebox and ripping out the pool tables and putting in a Japanese Karaoke station.
Can you really say its unethical that the locals leave in disgust, then go open their own bar with a similar jukebox and pool tables?
not at all.
They bought the building. Not the people.
Quote from: CETME on May 07, 2008, 07:40:36 PM
They bought the DML. Thats it
They didn't buy the mods. They didn't buy the people.
Lets say you bought a bar. You changed it all around, taking down the old jukebox and ripping out the pool tables and putting in a Japanese Karaoke station.
Can you really say its unethical that the locals leave in disgust, then go open their own bar with a similar jukebox and pool tables?
not at all.
They bought the building. Not the people.
Well said!
Bar analogy says it best.....
I'm for sale VS... Highest offer! ;D
great analogy
I was going to link in a post I saw at TOB, but it seems to have disappeared. The rumor was started by post whore, which was later denounced by admin as untrue.
Quote from: Alex on May 06, 2008, 08:00:11 PM
I'm no fan of corporations, ads, or canadians (jk), but I have to admit it seems a slight bit shady to me to make a new site like this.
How do you think Microsoft would have reacted if they had successfully bought Yahoo, only to find all the employees working, instead, at a brand new competitor named Yahooo (with the a strikingly similar way of operating as the original Yahoo), the very next day?
VS isn't microsoft, and the legality of it is certainly a much less big deal, but still... It's basically the same scenario.
To be clear, I don't care (then again, I don't care about stealing software off the net either...), I just want to be honest about what's happening here.
Think critically people.
I am thinking critically. There are some fundamental differences between the case you set forth and this one. When the Yahoo employees were working for their company, they knew that they were working "to make rich people richer". They already knew they were working to make money. They were being paid and were probably under contract for at least something. Sure, some may have worked because they believed in it, but do you think that their employees would have worked for free, as we visited TOB for free (or even paid $25 to work for Yahoo, as some of us have to TOB)?
I think that case does not compare to ours. The reason why I don't post on TOB anymore is because I don't want my friendships and camaraderie I share with my fellow Ducatisti to make a profit for some company. I don't want to be moderated and warned by people who have no idea who I am and who probably never read a post of mine before a few days ago. It is not like quitting a job and refusing to work for the company that took over. They never paid me for anything, so I don't owe them any of my time, labor, or knowledge.
I think the bar analogy is best. They bought the building, not the clients.
Quote from: CETME on May 07, 2008, 07:40:36 PM
They bought the building. Not the people.
Let's not forget, they canceled all of our "lifetime" memberships as well. And to add insult to injury offered us a "deal" on a new, vastly inferior, membership.
If there are any lawsuits, it should be a "Titanium Class" action suit to recover our missing funds. ;D
The Ti membership was never "Lifetime". It was supposed to be annual. They just never took away the stars...
I hate that if I use the word "bike" in a post on another previously popular forum, the word "bike" is now a pop up add for some kind of a bike rack!
I hate that.
Really, I hate it! I'm inundated by ads in my daily life, online I can make a choice--thank you DMWW/DMF!
Thank you for keeping this forum(clubhouse) free from the pollution of the "super capitalist" advertising that the other forum is now polluted with.
....Lawsuit?
They bought a forum(clubhouse) and a name, you can not by it's members--we still have free will ! [moto]
Just out of curiosity, how much was the DML sold for? I never thought it was worth anything...............and then who was the "owner" Michael Moore? (I honestly don't know) funny how nobody is talking about the "DML owner" that sold it. I guess they made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
And who is to say this very forum here is not sold someday, MONEY is a mofo.
Ahhhhhhhh, let's ride our bikes guys and gals [moto]
Later.
Quote from: gatuso on May 13, 2008, 10:05:54 PM
Just out of curiosity, how much was the DML sold for? I never thought it was worth anything...............and then who was the "owner" Michael Moore? (I honestly don't know) funny how nobody is talking about the "DML owner" that sold it. I guess they made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
Jeff H, not MM
And who is to say this very forum here is not sold someday, MONEY is a mofo.
This has been discussed at length....... no one "owns" the DMF
Ahhhhhhhh, let's ride our bikes guys and gals [moto]
Later.
Yes, Jeff H. AKA Monster Hooligan owned the DML and last I checked around some website appraisal sites, it was worth in the neighborhood of 6k...
Quote from: Alex on May 06, 2008, 08:00:11 PM
I'm no fan of corporations, ads, or canadians (jk), but I have to admit it seems a slight bit shady to me to make a new site like this.
How do you think Microsoft ....
.... why pick on canadians? :o Chill dude . Did JFK really say that?
Lawsuite; common - competition is good for the masses ... diversity over monoplies ... diversity over opression.
Cheers Ducid
Quote from: NAKID on May 13, 2008, 11:35:13 PM
Yes, Jeff H. AKA Monster Hooligan owned the DML and last I checked around some website appraisal sites, it was worth in the neighborhood of 6k...
And I suspect it was a Faustian bargain:
i.e.
Duuuude, no worries! Just sign the web site over to us and we'll handle all the hardware / software maintenance hassles and hosting fees. What could be easier for you? [evil]
This place is nothing like the DML ;D
Quote from: big bear on May 14, 2008, 02:07:22 AM
This place is nothing like the DML ;D
This place is nothing like the CURRENT DML, & that's a good thang.
This place feels like home [thumbsup]
to the OP....
even the admins over at the DML have debunked this myth about a lawsuit. would you be willing to
A) delete this thread
B) lock it
[thumbsup]
Quote from: vivaleduc on May 14, 2008, 04:23:16 PM
6K? I think that that number maybe a little tiny bit off...probably add five zeros and a twin turbo Porsche.
Good for Jeff [thumbsup]
Quote from: vivaleduc on May 14, 2008, 04:23:16 PM
6K? I think that that number maybe a little tiny bit off...probably add five zeros and a twin turbo Porsche.
I seriously doubt that.
Quote from: ducpainter on May 14, 2008, 06:22:16 PM
I seriously doubt that.
No, he's right.
$000,006,000.00
and
(http://www.toywonders.com/productcart/pc/catalog/73101R.JPG)
:P
Who gives a shit about VS. This forum looks the same as the old one because thats the way we like it.. VS butchered the old site and inundated it with adds and other things to suit them. This site is not like their current site, so what's with all the "critical thinking".
It's kind us nice to come to this site and not be blasted with adds, so much now on the other site that it's exhausting. I like the layout and pace of the old site and this site to relax and learn a little, but not to feel a john walking in the red light district.
To the founders of this site - you rock!