http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysian-airlines-plane-how-can-a-jet-just-disappear-its-not-hard-20140311-hvh7a.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysian-airlines-plane-how-can-a-jet-just-disappear-its-not-hard-20140311-hvh7a.html)
I've been following this. Thing is, it seems like with all the (I think something like 43) ships out there and all the aircraft, something would show up. When I turn over in my mind what could be done with a 'stolen' 777 should that be the case, it's a bit concerning.
JM
LOST.... [evil]
Quote from: ducpainter on March 10, 2014, 06:13:12 PM
LOST.... [evil]
Lol! True! Maybe a UFO sucked it up.
JM
Something inexplicable happens... and its always the Aliens that get the initial blame [roll]
More likely human error....
like the idiots who flew a perfectly good Air France areoplane into the South Atlantic a few years back.
I was thinking more of a parallel dimension. ;D
Quote from: ducpainter on March 10, 2014, 06:57:11 PM
I was thinking more of a parallel dimension. ;D
I can prove no such thing exists.
But I'd have to get into politics and aspects of some of your earthly religions, and DMF rules rightly prevent me from going there.
Quote from: ungeheuer on March 10, 2014, 06:55:14 PM
Something inexplicable happens... and its always the Aliens that get the initial blame [roll]
More likely human error....
like the idiots who flew a perfectly good Air France areoplane into the South Atlantic a few years back.
I just like blaming aliens! :D
The Air France had ice buildup on it's sensors (theory, not sure how much proof there was) and the pilots let the craft stall. Pilot error based on bad data. I could certainly see something like that in this case. They even mentioned pilot suicide as a possibility. I am very interested it the outcome though. I do hope we don't have a stolen 777.
JM
Oil slick means the plane went down.
Quote from: Blackout on March 10, 2014, 07:21:44 PM
Oil slick means the plane went down.
If you listen to the vid in ung's link, tests show the slick wasn't from the plane.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 10, 2014, 06:13:12 PM
LOST.... [evil]
My favorite show!!!
Someones hitting the button, I'm sure of it. ;)
Quote from: ducpainter on March 10, 2014, 06:13:12 PM
LOST.... [evil]
Well yea that did come to mind. Mabe when they find the wrekage there will be bodies on board that were dug up from a graveyard and dressed in new clothes. ;)
Quote from: DexterMorgan on March 10, 2014, 08:18:50 PM
My favorite show!!!
Someones hitting the button, I'm sure of it. ;)
Maybe they didn't hit the button this time.
Clearly, an alien turned off the treadmill, there's no other logical explanation.
I'm looking at you, Unge, when I say that.
Speeddog, you clearly have zero understanding of the physics of heavier-than-air aviation machines.
If the treadmill had been turned off, the plane would never have become airborne to begin with.
Some study material for you..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_of_the_Impossible (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_of_the_Impossible)
Read. Learn. And don't make me quote Donald Rumsfeld ;D
Too sad of a deal to be making jokes IMO. :-\
Quote from: hbliam on March 10, 2014, 11:05:26 PM
Too sad of a deal to be making jokes IMO. :-\
You are absolutely right.
Any jest is around the curious disappearance of something generally pretty hard to
completely misplace. The poked fun is at
my "alien" expense (and the perceived mischief "we" can get up to in ways Earthlings don't fully understand).
It's possibly inappropriate. Dark humour often is.
Pretty sure it's entirely understood that the likely tragic loss of 239 souls is indeed no laughing matter. And in due course, when facts begin to emerge.... I fully expect this thread to treat the grim seriousness of the matter with due respect.
But thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious.
Interesting development. It turned flew around 350 miles a different direction after it disappeared from radar. It only disappeared from civilian radar, not military. It also was flying at a lower altitude when tracked my military radar. That seems to indicated the radar transponder was switched off.
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on March 11, 2014, 07:48:33 AM
Interesting development. It turned flew around 350 miles a different direction after it disappeared from radar. It only disappeared from civilian radar, not military. It also was flying at a lower altitude when tracked my military radar. That seems to indicated the radar transponder was switched off.
JM
That development seems to indicate it may have something to do with stolen passports.
If you want to see every crazy theory possible just go to these links. Put on your tinfoil hats though.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1001780/pg1 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1001780/pg1)
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1001581/pg1 (http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1001581/pg1)
Sadly, I think all souls are lost. Either hijacked and crashed in the sea or a tiny spot in a deep dark jungle somewhere.
RIP to all 237 souls.
Quote from: ungeheuer on March 11, 2014, 02:25:13 AM
You are absolutely right.
Any jest is around the curious disappearance of something generally pretty hard to completely misplace. The poked fun is at my "alien" expense (and the perceived mischief "we" can get up to in ways Earthlings don't fully understand).
It's possibly inappropriate. Dark humour often is.
Pretty sure it's entirely understood that the likely tragic loss of 239 souls is indeed no laughing matter. And in due course, when facts begin to emerge.... I fully expect this thread to treat the grim seriousness of the matter with due respect.
But thanks for pointing out the bleeding obvious.
How many more facts need to emerge?
Quote from: hbliam on March 11, 2014, 10:54:27 AM
How many more facts need to emerge?
You may be waiting until this evening for a response on account of Ung being a Vampire that sleeps during the day.
Quote from: Mendo Dave on March 11, 2014, 10:58:02 AM
You may be waiting until this evening for a response on account of Ung being a Vampire that sleeps during the day.
:)
Looks like D. B. Cooper's still alive after all.
Revised my thoughts after reading this:
MH370 - what happened
A plausible explanation for why MH370 "disappeared" and why we still can't find it.
March 10, 2014
My recommendation to the NTSB
I sent this email to Peter Knudson (Media Relations) at the NTSB, and he will consider if its worthy of forwarding onto investigators.
At the end of this email, I’ve listed sensible and low-cost recommendations to best aid recovery efforts.
===================================
Has anyone considered if the below FAA Airworthiness Directive could be a clue the MH370 investigation?
A November 2013 FAA Airworthiness Directive for the 777
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-09-26/html/2013-23456.htm (http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2013-09-26/html/2013-23456.htm)
SUMMARY: We propose to adopt a new airworthiness directive (AD) for
certain The Boeing Company Model 777 airplanes. This proposed AD was
prompted by a report of cracking in the fuselage skin underneath the
satellite communication (SATCOM) antenna adapter. This proposed AD
would require repetitive inspections of the visible fuselage skin and
doubler if installed, for cracking, corrosion, and any indication of
contact of a certain fastener to a bonding jumper, and repair if
necessary. We are proposing this AD to detect and correct cracking and
corrosion in the fuselage skin, which could lead to rapid decompression
and loss of structural integrity of the airplane.
Summary: It’s plausible that a fuselage section near the SATCOM antenna adapter failed, disabling satellite based - GPS, ACARS, and ADS-B/C - communications, and leading to a slow decompression that left all occupants unconscious. If such decompression left the aircraft intact, then the autopilot would have flown the planned route or otherwise maintained its heading/altitude until fuel exhaustion.
A slow decompression (e.g. from a golfball-sized hole) would have gradually impaired and confused the pilots before cabin altitude (pressure) warnings sounded.
Chain of events:
Likely fuselage failure near SATCOM antenna adapter, disabling some or all of GPS, ACARS, ADS-B, and ADS-C antennas and systems.
Thus, only primary radars would detect the plane. Primary radar range is usually less than 100nm, and is generally ineffective at high altitudes.
If the decompression was slow enough, it’s possible the pilots did not realize to put on oxygen masks until it was too late. (See Helios 522)
Also explains why another Pilot thirty minutes ahead heard “mumbling†from MH370 pilots.
(VHF comms would be unaffected by SATCOM equipment failure.)
With incapacitated pilots, the 777 could continue to fly on Autopilot - programmed to maintain cruise altitude and follow the programmed route. Using the Inertial Reference System (gyroscope based), the plane could navigate without needing GPS.
Other thoughts:
The plane was equipped with cellular communication hardware, supplied by AeroMobile, to provide GSM services via satellite. However this is an aftermarket product; it’s not connected through SATCOM (as far as I know).
This explains why 19 families signed a statement alleging they were able to call the MH370 passengers and get their phones to ring, but with no response.
When Malaysian Airlines tried to call the phone numbers a day later, the phones did not ring. By this time, fuel would have been exhausted.
Note: 777 Passenger Oxygen masks do not deploy until cabin altitude reaches 13,500. Passengers were likely already unconscious by then, if it was a slow decompression. Also remember that this flight was a red-eye, most passengers would be trying to sleep, masking alarming effects of oxygen deprivation. No confirmed debris has been found anywhere near the search area, consistent with the plane having flown for hours after it lost radar contact.
Conclusion:
This was likely not an “explosive decompression†or “inflight disintegration.†This was likely a slow decompression that gradually deprived all crew/passengers of oxygen, leaving the autopilot to continue along the route autonomously.
The aircraft may be at the floor of the East China Sea, Sea of Japan, or the Pacific Ocean thousands of miles northeast from the current search zone. [UPDATE: Basically, it could be “anywhereâ€, and we need to use any available radar records to help figure it out. This is where the Vietnamese/Malaysia civilian and military radars will help.]
Recommendations:
• Investigators should obtain data logs from primary radars throughout mainland China that would have been along the planned route. They may be the best clue as to the trajectory of the aircraft. Per the latest reported news, the Straight of Malacca is a possibility.
• Investigators should obtain all passengers’ cell phone log and location data. The timing of the last successful cellular connection (ring/SMS/data-packet) can predict how long the plane was in the air. iPhone/iOS location (GPS) data may be available from Apple if subpoenaed. Android location data may be available from Google.
• Add a secondary search space to include a 300nm radius around Beijing, focusing on surrounding bodies of water. Using planned routing trajectory, known autopilot logics, fuel quantities, and weather patterns, it may be possible to define a smaller 50nm * 50nm search space. Consider running the above scenario in MH’s 777-200ER full flight simulator.
• Boeing should provide expertise about the SATCOM antenna schematics and autopilot/navigation logic, so as to help plot this second search space.
Interesting theory. From what people who know the aircraft have said, the following isn't very likely:
A slow decompression (e.g. from a golfball-sized hole) would have gradually impaired and confused the pilots before cabin altitude (pressure) warnings sounded.
Apparently the cabin altitude warning systems on the 777 will start sounding when the equivalent altitude in the pilot's cabin is between 10,000 and 11,000 feet...well before when one start to be confused by oxygen deprivation. That assumes the system was working correctly.
Also there should have been enough fuel to fly to its destination unless the there were waypoints in the INS that had not been input already. But getting a subpoena from Apple and google could help.
I am unfamiliar with the plane however that does make sense. Hopefully they find something, at least for the families sake. I suspect it is a dot in a rainforest somewhere.
Sad, very sad.
Quote from: hbliam on March 11, 2014, 10:54:27 AM
How many more facts need to emerge?
Before arriving at a conclusion? All of them.
Quote from: the_Journeyman on March 11, 2014, 07:48:33 AM
Interesting development. It turned flew around 350 miles a different direction after it disappeared from radar. It only disappeared from civilian radar, not military. It also was flying at a lower altitude when tracked my military radar. That seems to indicated the radar transponder was switched off.
JM
Yup, that if true, is a very interesting and curious development.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/change-of-course-deepens-mystery-of-missing-malaysia-airlines-jet/story-e6frg95x-1226852147651 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/change-of-course-deepens-mystery-of-missing-malaysia-airlines-jet/story-e6frg95x-1226852147651)
They started looking in the wrong area.
Quote from: kopfjäger on March 11, 2014, 04:13:38 PM
They started looking in the wrong area.
If reports are true, the military knew that "they" started looking in the wrong area.... since the military apparently tracked the aircraft 500kms west of its intended flight path (after it disappeared from civil systems).
[edit] Military is now denying that they tracked plane hundreds of kilometers west of its intended flight path....
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/change-of-course-deepens-mystery-of-missing-malaysia-airlines-jet/story-e6frg95x-1226852147651 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/change-of-course-deepens-mystery-of-missing-malaysia-airlines-jet/story-e6frg95x-1226852147651)
The thick plottens :-\
The list of facts seems to be shrinking. :(
Wonder if this is legitimate?
http://www.boston.com/news/source/2014/03/report_oil_rig_worker_tells_employer_he_saw_malaysia_airline.html (http://www.boston.com/news/source/2014/03/report_oil_rig_worker_tells_employer_he_saw_malaysia_airline.html)
JM
The lat/long coordinates he provided are about 400 miles east of the last known location.
Which is completely believable.
I've completely discounted any statements attributed to the Malaysian military, as they can't seem to keep the story straight on where they had the plane on radar.
Pilot inappropriate behavior history: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/11/malaysia-airlines-co-pilot_n_4942754.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/11/malaysia-airlines-co-pilot_n_4942754.html)
Quote from: Speeddog on March 12, 2014, 11:43:45 AM
I've completely discounted any statements attributed to the Malaysian military, as they can't seem to keep the story straight on where they had the plane on radar.
^^This
We can't seem to be able to keep our own navy vessels in Australian waters!
Weird.
Supposedly in the water near Vietnam according to Chinese satellites
Long/lat coordinates from Chinese satellite images put the suspected plane debris about 240 miles on ~240 deg compass heading from the oil platform coordinates that the guy e-mailed.
He estimated 50-70 km away at a heading of 265-275.
Considering he was estimating distance and heading of a burning object at unknown altitude in the middle of the night.... sounds like they've got a possible match.
Malaysia is now denying that the Chinese sat images are debris.
JM
Rolls-Royce data suggests missing Malaysia flight was in air for four hours after disappearing
www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/Rolls-Royce-data-says-missing-Malaysia-flight-air/story-20804909-detail/story.html (//http://)
ENGINE data from Rolls-Royce in Derby shows that the missing Malaysia Airlines plane flew for four hours after it dropped off radar.
Flight 370 went missing one hour into its flight from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
But new data transmitted from the two Trent 800 engines shows the plane flew for some five hours in total meaning it could have travelled more than 2,500 miles than thought.
In that time it could have reached as far north as the India/Pakistan border or as far south as North West Australia, according to the Wall Street Journal.
The Journal spoke to a source that is familiar with the systems that sends back bursts of data to Rolls-Royce's Derby site to monitor engine health.
According to the Wall Street Journal the engine data is now being analysed to track the plane's flight path after the transponders stopped working.
"We continue to monitor the situation and to offer Malaysia Airlines our support," a Rolls-Royce representative said.
This just gets stranger and stranger.
(Edit) Reports are now coming in that the four hours of data pings from the engines is not true. They are stating the last ping came at 1:07.
Starting to wonder if sudden decompression knocked everyone out and the planes systems keep it flying at a low altitude until it went fuel empty. Lack of o2 can mess a pilot up pretty quickly and turning off the transponder may have been done by accident.
Sucks for all the families. :'(
This is making me believe in reincarnation.
Apparently the 3 stooges have been reincarnated and are leading the investigation in Malaysia.
+1
This appears to be the official search area, based upon all facts in evidence:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BilRYRiCYAAiRmV.jpg)
US Navy is now (reportedly) deploying USS Kidd to search the...
Indian Ocean.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/malaysia-airlines-usa-search-idUSL2N0MA1DO20140313 (http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/13/malaysia-airlines-usa-search-idUSL2N0MA1DO20140313)
As each new piece of "information" is discounted.... as the search becomes ever wider...
the only evident fact is that "they" have no clue where the hell this aircraft is. No idea in what direction it headed after last contact, or for how long it flew. Yet... it was in somebody's airspace... even with transponder disabled.... other onboard systems report back to base.... It didn't ever show up any military radar after it vanished from civil sytems??
How can a commercial airliner suddenly become so stealthy that no bastard knows where it went, in which direction or for how long ???
Quote from: Speeddog on March 13, 2014, 04:53:00 PM
This appears to be the official search area, based upon all facts in evidence:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BilRYRiCYAAiRmV.jpg)
Lots of large open uninhabited areas one could land within that area but surely it would show up on someones damn radar! It's not like we are talking about a Cessna 182! There would be people in dark rooms looking at live feed satellite imagery as well.....has to have gone down in the drink?
I read an interesting article that brought up the possibility some countries might have info they're reluctant to share because it would indicate a technological capability that they may not want to be common knowledge.
From the CSM:
Is it confusion or is it obfuscation?
The Malaysia military may really be struggling to identify the the blips on their radar screens early last Saturday morning. Or, they may be deliberately hiding their radar capabilities.
"The first thing we don't know in the public domain is what the military ground radar were seeing," David Gleave, a former air crash investigator, told The Telegraph.
"We have an area of relatively high tension politically, so we have Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Burma, Singapore - could all have their radars working but we don't know what they've seen, and one reason for not saying what they've seen is that it would be to declare their military capability to the other people around them," said Gleave, who now works as an aviation expert at Loughborough University. "However this aircraft should have appeared on several military radars for a considerable period of time," he said.
I'm sure there are other countries with more advanced capabilities that would prefer they be kept unknown
One of the conspiracies going around:
apparently there were 20 passengers on board that were part of a team that was working on making planes truly invisible.....
Quote
20 high-tech electronic warfare workers boarded Malaysia plane. Electronic weapons can cause a plane to appear to vanish
Malaysia Airlines
March 9, 2014
Did Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 with 239 people aboard tragically disintegrate in mid-flight, as official investigators postulate? Or has it been disappeared with electronic weaponry used in electronic warfare that at least twenty passengers' employer is contracted by the Department of Defense to make, as this reporter posits?
Link to story http://www.examiner.com/article/malaysia-jet-hidden-by-electronic-weaponry-20-ew-defense-linked-passengers (http://www.examiner.com/article/malaysia-jet-hidden-by-electronic-weaponry-20-ew-defense-linked-passengers)
Quote from: Skybarney on March 13, 2014, 08:21:30 PM
One of the conspiracies going around:
apparently there were 20 passengers on board that were part of a team that was working on making planes truly invisible.....
Link to story http://www.examiner.com/article/malaysia-jet-hidden-by-electronic-weaponry-20-ew-defense-linked-passengers (http://www.examiner.com/article/malaysia-jet-hidden-by-electronic-weaponry-20-ew-defense-linked-passengers)
Who's got the tinfoil hats?
Quote from: red baron on March 13, 2014, 09:45:59 PM
Who's got the tinfoil hats?
I think DP has the latest version of tinfoil hats in stock.
:-\
I'm amazed that airlines don't satellite track their expensive hardware. So that once their investment substantially deviated from its intended route they begin to act. Or at least enquire.
Of course, if the flight data recorders were available we'd be in little doubt what occurred.
But they're inconveniently lost along with the plane. Its not a great system - you first have to locate what's lost from whatever inaccessible place it ends up... in order to begin to understand how and why... [bang]
Isn't it about time that flight data was continuously uploaded to ground-based servers, readily accessible should the awful need arise?
Seems the industry has the mindset of days gone by.....
Before there was anything like engines preparing a summary report of the last hour's realtime data to satellites, to then be relayed to the airline and/or engine manufacturer.
Hour by hour.
I suspect it's the relatively infrequent nature of bad events that fails to provide sufficient pressure on the organizations(s) to embrace a somewhat passe' technology.
For how often this happens there is no need to track the hardware-it doesn't buy you anything the vast majority of the time.
Odd it happened in the middle of an ATC handoff-if one were to want to steal a plane-that would be the time to do it, along with stopping the transponder.
If one were dealing with idiots taking over the plane, who then flew at a low altitude making the engines less efficient, it could've been a hijacking that they either crashed or the passengers forced down.
Personally I think it's right about under where the last known position was.
Quote from: Ddan on March 13, 2014, 05:29:31 PMI'm sure there are other countries with more advanced capabilities that would prefer they be kept unknown
The US seems... to believe that the plane is nowhere near the original search location (as first reported by DMF insider Kopfjager).
Not east of Malaysia, not in the South China Sea...
The US
seems to believe that the plane flew west for several hours....
"Despite authorities in Malaysia denying that the Boeing 777 flew on for an extended period after it was last tracked on radar en route to Beijing from Kuala Lumpur, unnamed US officials have said the plane did send signals to a satellite for four or five hours after it went missing."http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-deliberately-flown-towards-indias-andaman-islands-military-radar/story-fnizu68q-1226854092765 (http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-deliberately-flown-towards-indias-andaman-islands-military-radar/story-fnizu68q-1226854092765)
Quote from: Timon on March 14, 2014, 02:15:15 AMFor how often this happens there is no need to track the hardware-it doesn't buy you anything the vast majority of the time.
True. There is no need
the vast majority of the time. But it's the
not vast majority of the time situations where the investment would return a dividend.
The depressurization theory seems more plausible given the fact that if the plane flew three to four hours off course, and the passengers were aware of a problem, surely one of the nearly 250 of them would have sent an email, text, or made a call.
Quote from: hbliam on March 14, 2014, 03:15:15 AM
The depressurization theory seems more plausible given the fact that if the plane flew three to four hours off course, and the passengers were aware of a problem, surely one of the nearly 250 of them would have sent an email, text, or made a call.
Maybe their phones were rendered inoperable when the Aliens invisiblerated the Earthling's plane.
Or 1500 other guesses.
Here aren't the facts as they unfolded:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370--a-week-of-confusion-20140314-hviqs.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370--a-week-of-confusion-20140314-hviqs.html)
[popcorn]
I think it was circulating looking for the beacon of the stealth treadmill for to land on
this is the cnn of threads
Nate and Ted do kinda look alike
My tinfoil hat says it's on the ground somewhere being prepared for nefarious activity.... :-\
Quote from: ungeheuer on March 14, 2014, 02:45:46 AM
True. There is no need the vast majority of the time. But it's the not vast majority of the time situations where the investment would return a dividend.
There is no dividend to return-there is no financial sense in doing it, hence the airlines will not be doing it. They'll find that plane one way or another.
Now were the respective governments to bill the airlines for this sort of thing-they might reconsider.
Quote from: hbliam on March 14, 2014, 03:15:15 AM
The depressurization theory seems more plausible given the fact that if the plane flew three to four hours off course, and the passengers were aware of a problem, surely one of the nearly 250 of them would have sent an email, text, or made a call.
It's unlikely whatever caused the potential depressurization would also have damaged the transponder.
Quote from: Timon on March 14, 2014, 07:25:55 AM
There is no dividend to return-there is no financial sense in doing it, hence the airlines will not be doing it.
Not to the airline. To you and to me. Them search vessels aint free y'know Homer.
Quote from: ungeheuer on March 14, 2014, 07:55:15 AM
Not to the airline. To you and to me. Them search vessels aint free y'know Homer.
I'm aware it costs us-it doesn't cost the airline=they don't care to upgrade anything unless they have to.
I think some government knows exactly where the plane is located. Like Speedbag, I also wouldn't be surprised if it never crashed.
Initially I thought it just crashed and hadn't been found yet...but it's getting too weird now. Sure seems like something is up.
Quote from: Triple J on March 14, 2014, 10:37:24 AM
Sure seems like something is up.
they refeuled it with it's stealth technoloy and it is flying again?!?!?!?!
Quote from: zooom on March 14, 2014, 10:41:51 AM
they refeuled it with it's stealth technoloy and it is flying again?!?!?!?!
Well, maybe not literally up! [laugh]
Quote from: Timon on March 14, 2014, 09:42:39 AM
I'm aware it costs us-it doesn't cost the airline=they don't care to upgrade anything unless they have to.
I'm aware it costs us, it doesn't cost the airline = they don't care to upgrade anything unless they have to.
I'm suggesting it's about time consideration was given to making it a requirement.
I don't think it made land, possibly a bungled hijack attempt and he who thought he could fly well couldn't. Maybe small arms fire could account for depressurization and a gentle glide into the drink with minimal debris. So many variables and so many strange factors in play!
Quote from: Scoober1103 on March 14, 2014, 06:04:10 PM
I don't think it made land, possibly a bungled hijack attempt and he who thought he could fly well couldn't. Maybe small arms fire could account for depressurization and a gentle glide into the drink with minimal debris. So many variables and so many strange factors in play!
Or they didn't understand how much fuel was on the plane and the burn rate at a lower altitude.
hijacked
is the anonymously arrived at... conclusion...
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-investigators-say-jet-was-hijacked-20140315-34tll.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-plane-investigators-say-jet-was-hijacked-20140315-34tll.html)
or not.. or kinda.. but lets officially call it... something else.. for now.. :-\
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-15/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-deliberately-off-course/5323338 (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-15/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-deliberately-off-course/5323338)
Since 2001 I guess they have a possible excuse but come on there is still no official confirmation? ??? Someone must know something? Surely?
Quote from: Scoober1103 on March 15, 2014, 03:53:48 AM
Surely?
Don't call me Shirley (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0A5t5_O8hdA#)
Yes. I make joke. Its bad taste. The black and white humour troopers will be here to berate me soon I expect.
I walked right into that one diddle I..... [clap]
Quote from: Speedbag on March 14, 2014, 07:03:53 AM
My tinfoil hat says it's on the ground somewhere being prepared for nefarious activity.... :-\
I have thought this from the beginning. That aircraft was stolen with and is sitting in a hangar somewhere nobody would think it would have flown. They said "too much air traffic" for it to basically fly blind over India and area, but it was a red eye. Less traffic to worry about. seems very calculated to me.
JM
Someone emailed this to me...not trying to offend anyone.
http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html (http://vietnam.craigslist.org/for/4372477162.html)
:D
[clap]
[laugh]
I knew that was only a matter of time
Did anyone get a screen shot?
It's down now.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 16, 2014, 02:08:12 PM
Did anyone get a screen shot?
It's down now.
Found this.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57620394-1/malaysia-airlines-777-pops-up-on-craigslist-and-for-just- (http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-57620394-1/malaysia-airlines-777-pops-up-on-craigslist-and-for-just-)$70/
In the ongoing absence of any real facts, I'll take a turn with the tin foil hat.
The Captain of the flight deck did it.
Turned off ACARS.
Quote from: Timon on March 14, 2014, 02:15:15 AMOdd it happened in the middle of an ATC handoff-if one were to want to steal a plane-that would be the time to do it, along with stopping the transponder.
"Alright, goodnight". Left Malaysian ATC, never picked up with Vietnamese ATC.....
Turned off transponder.
Did his U-turn, and headed off to North West through Malacca Strait....
And then?
All we have is the satellite pings which tell us he either continued heading north/west over land towards Kazakhstan...
Or... banked sharply south west to head for a suicide run into the Southern Ocean. But why that? Why set out on a long flight to oblivion, waiting for the fuel to run out to plunge to your watery demise? If it was pilot suicide, why not just take a nose dive into the waters between Malaysia and Vietnam right at the first opportunity?
So my tin foil hat thinks he flew north. Over all that militarized country. Low, under the perhaps too casually observed radar. A flight he'd practiced many times... on that elaborate home flight simulator.
An extremely well planned operation by a capable professional.
The destination? Who knows. Afghanistan? Where ever it might be, a well prepared ground crew would be required, ready and waiting.
Why? make the beast with two backs knows ???
And why too during all this was there not a peep from anybody aboard? Not a single phone call or text message? Beats me.
Weird's the word :-\
Yes. ^^^
Flight crew snuffed the passengers via mild depressurization, and off they went.
Hmm, an attack on Israel, perhaps? Dump the bodies, reload plane with explosives, a nuke, or dirty bomb and have at it. The possibilities make me shudder.
:-\
Here's another one for the tin foil...
http://www.pisau.net/russia-puzzled-over-malaysia-airlines-mh370-capture-by-us-navy-prayformh370/ (http://www.pisau.net/russia-puzzled-over-malaysia-airlines-mh370-capture-by-us-navy-prayformh370/)
JM
Flying ~north.....
What route to go with a large unidentified aircraft?
Fly at 10k feet on the India side of the Himalayas?
High enough to avoid being identified from the ground, but low enough to avoid China's radar?
10k feet near the mtns would be one bumpy ass ride. :o
Quote from: red baron on March 17, 2014, 07:56:54 AM
10k feet near the mtns would be one bumpy ass ride. :o
[laugh] Indeed!
I was thinking just a wee bit south, but still in Nepalese airspace.
But I cannot imagine running a big jet through there without showing up on India's radar.
I'd look into who just bought a bunch of airplane paint.
Someone on another site found this, very interesting!
Hello Everyone,
Not sure if this exact sighting has been posted but...this was just too weird not to share. I was trolling around on reddit.com and also doing some Tomnod.com spotting of my own when I came across this...
Tomnod Map #655896
For those of you who don't have an account there, I've included a screenshot, because this is just too hard to believe without seeing:
(http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f149/Skybarney/Internet%20Pics/mb532738da_zpscf3116d0.png) (http://s46.photobucket.com/user/Skybarney/media/Internet%20Pics/mb532738da_zpscf3116d0.png.html)
Now, according to their data, that picture was taken at 3/12/14 4:49 AM..time zone not given, but I'm assuming local to me, which is EST. I was able to cross reference tomnod.com to come up with the actual Lat/Long, which came to:
Lat: 11.577303 Long: 92.680922
I've attempted to pull the picture off of GoogleMaps, but was only greeted with cloud cover over the exact location. Given that Lat/Long, it translates to this area:
Nayashahar RV, Andaman and Nicobar Islands, India 744105
Which is located on the southern end of Smith Island, between the Bay of Bengal of the Andaman Sea, India.
I hope some of you have an idea of WTF a plane of that size could be doing there...
[laugh]
Yeah, how did it not make its own runway. Maybe it was , heisted by a team of balloonists. [cheeky]
Lol, It is not parked there, the satellite caught a pic as it was flying quite low over the trees. Probably nothing but the FAA and NTSB has been made aware of the picture.
I feel so badly for the families of those missing.
For those of you familiar with aviation - How low could you feasibly fly a plane of that size over the water?
JM
Quote from: the_Journeyman on March 17, 2014, 03:15:51 PM
For those of you familiar with aviation - How low could you feasibly fly a plane of that size over the water?
JM
All the way till it crashed. ;)
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/00789b63c940bc642eaa289be1e66336.jpg)
I'll add to the tin foil hat theory's.......if the engines are transmitting telemetry back for analysis every hour is it a two way street? Can Rolls Royce switch off the engines remotely? Good (but dangerous) feature to have in the event of someone flying a fully fueled jet intended for a terrorist act! Sacrifice the few to save many? Horrible for everyone involved but as a final fail-safe!
Wouldn't like to be the make the beast with two backser who has that job!
Quote from: kopfjäger on March 17, 2014, 03:31:47 PM
All the way till it crashed. ;)
Lol, yea, I was more thinking get it low over the water in a isolated area to try to avoid radar until they were close to land and a quick pull up and over a ridge and down again into remote desert areas. I realize it's not a fighter jet, but with some practice (flight simulator like one of the pilots had) you could pull it off. I would have to be pretty unpopulated areas you're low over simply because a 777 flying close to the ground anywhere but near an airport would cause quite the alarm to those on the ground.
It's possible to fly it very low, but over the water isn't necessarily 'off the radar'.
There are ships who would likely pick up the radio and start shouting if they saw an airliner cruising along at 50 feet.
Range is drastically reduced in low altitude flight.
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/22043105/us-military-base-south-asian-airports-in-mh370-pilot-s-simulator-reports/ (http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/22043105/us-military-base-south-asian-airports-in-mh370-pilot-s-simulator-reports/)
Interesting that one of the airports is US one in Diego Garcia.
I thought this story I posted earlier was far fetched, but it's sounding a bit more plausible now.
http://www.pisau.net/russia-puzzled-over-malaysia-airlines-mh370-capture-by-us-navy-prayformh370/ (http://www.pisau.net/russia-puzzled-over-malaysia-airlines-mh370-capture-by-us-navy-prayformh370/)
JM
^^ Far fetched is an understatement IMO.
A bit of clear thinking on transponders:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/opinion/out-of-control.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/opinion/out-of-control.html)
And it seems the search are is narrowing:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/17/world/asia/search-for-flight-370.html#arc (http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/03/17/world/asia/search-for-flight-370.html#arc)
Quote from: kopfjäger on March 17, 2014, 03:35:22 PM
(http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa91/chiflado/00789b63c940bc642eaa289be1e66336.jpg)
I was going to blame "Spector". Gotta love James Bond movies.
Quote from: Autostrada Pilot on March 19, 2014, 09:56:41 AM
I was going to blame "Spector".
Phil? Can't be. He's in jail for Death of a Lady's Man.
I'm beginning to think The Mysterons are to blame.
Its happened before http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Black_%28Captain_Scarlet%29#Captain_Scarlet_and_the_Mysterons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Black_%28Captain_Scarlet%29#Captain_Scarlet_and_the_Mysterons)
Have we found it?
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/objects-may-be-from-missing-malaysia-airlines-jet-tony-abbott/story-e6frg95x-1226860205396 (http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/aviation/objects-may-be-from-missing-malaysia-airlines-jet-tony-abbott/story-e6frg95x-1226860205396)
I hope so :-\.
I'm hoping so but hoping not at the same time. Was hoping some wackjobs had them all alive still.
Just how likely is it that a 24 meter chunk of a 777 is still afloat after 12 days??
Quote from: extra330 on March 20, 2014, 08:02:34 AM
Just how likely is it that a 24 meter chunk of a 777 is still afloat after 12 days??
Quite possible. Don't you ever listen to the safety briefing? Your seat may be used as a flotation device.....
I hope they find something, at this point even crashed is better than missing indefinitely. The families really deserve some closure. Can you imagine the pain they must be going through not knowing? It would drive me nuts.
Quote from: Skybarney on March 20, 2014, 08:35:18 AM
Quite possible. Don't you ever listen to the safety briefing? Your seat may be used as a flotation device.....
Your seat cushion. Not your seat. :)
Quote from: extra330 on March 20, 2014, 08:02:34 AM
Just how likely is it that a 24 meter chunk of a 777 is still afloat after 12 days??
In that location... the 777 woulda had to flown until it ran right out of fuel... those large and empty fuel tanks would probably make good buoyancy devices if not ruptured on impact.
Quote from: hbliam on March 20, 2014, 10:28:46 AM
Your seat cushion. Not your seat. :)
Never said
I listened to the briefing [laugh]
Some sensible suggestions..
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-mh370-five-air-safety-lessons-to-be-learnt-20140321-hvlab.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-mh370-five-air-safety-lessons-to-be-learnt-20140321-hvlab.html)
I'd go beyond "floating black boxes" though. The data needs to be live streamed. And yes, I know why it isn't but that must change IMO.
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/pregnant%20dog-please-stealth-plane-lost-1131276_zps92324bb6.jpeg)
Quote from: Speedbag on March 21, 2014, 08:51:03 AM
(http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo118/Speedbag/pregnant%20dog-please-stealth-plane-lost-1131276_zps92324bb6.jpeg)
[thumbsup] [thumbsup]
[clap]
Breaking news...
:-\
WHAT BROKE?!?!?!
aside from the plane itself in the Indian Ocean....
But hasn't the Malaysian PM said "We are absolutely sure this time..." many other times? [bang]
The plane attemted an emegency landing and headed for the nearest treadmill, but it got stuck on the top and went under the rollers at the end. If they look there they will find the whole thing all crushed and ground up with the rollers and gears and stuff.
Either the copilot went batshit crazy or it is a convenient coverup story for oh shit we shot down an airliner.
Quote from: the_Journeyman on March 17, 2014, 03:15:51 PM
For those of you familiar with aviation - How low could you feasibly fly a plane of that size over the water?
JM
Easily very low due to the ground effect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_%28aircraft%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_effect_%28aircraft%29)
Would kill their range though.
Lot more concentration required the lower you go. I would definitly be running the Radar altimiter.
[
]
;D
[ ]
[laugh]
]
Chinese and Australian vessels both detect pings "consistent with black box" signal emissions...
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mh37o-angus-houston-confirms-signal-detected-by-ocean-shield-are-consistent-with-black-box/story-fni0fiyv-1226876424791 (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/mh37o-angus-houston-confirms-signal-detected-by-ocean-shield-are-consistent-with-black-box/story-fni0fiyv-1226876424791)
Still seems unrealistic that there's no debris. Then again after this much time who knows where it could have drifted to or sunk.
4500 metres deep.
Bollocks. :(
When I read the article I saw 4500...and thought...
no big deal.
Except it's meters...not feet. [bang] [bang]
I didn't see this linked, but easily the most plausible theory I've read:
http://www.wired.com/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/ (http://www.wired.com/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/)
"What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that routeâ€"looking elsewhere is pointless."
That does sounds reasonable.
Yep...
If there was a fire, would the pilot put the plane on autopilot?
Does the autopilot require a route be programmed in?
Or can you just hit the 'maintain altitude and heading' button?
Quote from: Privateer on April 10, 2014, 07:31:29 AM"What I think happened is the flight crew was overcome by smoke and the plane continued on the heading, probably on George (autopilot), until it ran out of fuel or the fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. You will find it along that routeâ€"looking elsewhere is pointless."
If there was an onboard emergency... I get that the above scenario may be a possibility.... "oh shit.... we're all dead.. plane flies onwards on last preset heading..."
But the hole in this theory for me... is what happened immediately prior to the above..... The u-turn (OK that may fit with above "lets head for the nearest airport")..... but the ascent, decent and seemingly skilled and deliberate avoidance of Indonesian airspace... before any fixed southerly heading was fatally adhered to :-\
I'm still smelling pilot shenanigans.
getting ready to board a plane...fingers crossed we don't disappear.
Today's headlines indicate the Aussies are pretty confidant they've closing in on a location of black boxes.
JM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1 (http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1)
Maybe this's all just an exercise to display the dangers of not putting your cell phone on airplane mode.
I think this is going to be the mistery of the century regarding aviation . . .
How embarrassing that this has still not been solved. Put Jeraldo Rivera on the case.
WTF ???
http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-pings-not-from-plane-official-says-20140529-zrrdo.html (http://www.smh.com.au/world/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-pings-not-from-plane-official-says-20140529-zrrdo.html)
http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/07/15/mh370-suspicions-of-systems-tampering-strengthened-by-study/ (http://blogs.crikey.com.au/planetalking/2014/07/15/mh370-suspicions-of-systems-tampering-strengthened-by-study/)
Thanks for the update. Interesting article.
JM
They should have put the student loan folks on the hunt, they would have found that damn thing within hours.
Quote from: Speedbag on August 18, 2014, 08:02:33 AM
They should have put the student loan folks on the hunt, they would have found that damn thing within hours.
[clap]
[laugh]
After 9/11 we turned flight decks into impregnable fortresses. And with good reason.
After MH370 and now 4U9525...
IMO it's time to reconsider that fortification.
There's no really simple answer...
is there?
The answer doesn't need to be simple. But there does need to be some other thinking applied IMO.
A weighing of the risks. Sure, secure the flight deck but not to the point where access is granted solely from within. Authorised personnel ought be able to access from without. And yes, I realise the security hole that enables.
But passengers need to be also protected from lone-rogue flight crew.
I don't disagree that something should be done.
Put the third flight crew member back on the deck...like the old days...require two to be in the cockpit at all times.
Still doesn't preclude the possibility of something happening.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 27, 2015, 03:38:21 AM
Still doesn't preclude the possibility of something happening.
Nothing can do that. But the current status quo just cannot be allowed to continue.
The airlines have already announced a measure to stop the lone actor.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/german-plane-crash/airlines-worldwide-adopt-two-cockpit-rule-after-germanwings-crash-n331041 (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/german-plane-crash/airlines-worldwide-adopt-two-cockpit-rule-after-germanwings-crash-n331041)
They should just require that everybody behave.
Surely that will do it
Quote from: Candyman on March 27, 2015, 03:53:04 AM
They should just require that everybody behave.
Or that posters here grow the make the beast with two backs up.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 27, 2015, 03:49:32 AM
The airlines have already announced a measure to stop the lone actor.
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/german-plane-crash/airlines-worldwide-adopt-two-cockpit-rule-after-germanwings-crash-n331041 (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/german-plane-crash/airlines-worldwide-adopt-two-cockpit-rule-after-germanwings-crash-n331041)
Some airlines.
Its a known risk. And yet we have to get to this before action is taken [bang]
Of course we do.
Well other airlines from other countries (like Germany [laugh]) aren't as uptight.
laissez les bon temps rouler
And all. Ive actually seen that phrase painted right on an airplane.
Quote from: ducpainter on March 27, 2015, 04:04:47 AM
Of course we do.
Yup.
Sadly this shit is most often the motivation for change >>> http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/27/germanwings-crash-details-emerge-of-the-co-pilot-who-crashed-his-plane-live-updates#block-551496ffe4b02ccee1b19cac (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/27/germanwings-crash-details-emerge-of-the-co-pilot-who-crashed-his-plane-live-updates#block-551496ffe4b02ccee1b19cac)
Down under is a big place. You should spend more time driving and less time flying. Plus you will see much more on the ground, and give something else a chance to kill you instead of some pesky rouge pilot.
Quote from: ungeheuer on March 27, 2015, 04:14:48 AM
Yup.
Sadly this shit is most often the motivation for change >>> http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/27/germanwings-crash-details-emerge-of-the-co-pilot-who-crashed-his-plane-live-updates#block-551496ffe4b02ccee1b19cac (http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/27/germanwings-crash-details-emerge-of-the-co-pilot-who-crashed-his-plane-live-updates#block-551496ffe4b02ccee1b19cac)
"Money" - Liza Minnelli, Joel Grey (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkRIbUT6u7Q#)
Quote from: Candyman on March 27, 2015, 04:48:14 AM
Down under is a big place. You should spend more time driving and less time flying. Plus you will see much more on the ground, and give something else a chance to kill you instead of some pesky rouge pilot.
[roll]
Trying to discuss issues here.
You seem to want to engage in a battle of wits.
And yet come unarmed for the encounter :-*
Quote from: ungeheuer on March 27, 2015, 05:46:26 AM
[roll]
Trying to discuss issues here.
You seem to want to engage in a battle of wits.
And yet come unarmed for the encounter :-*
Discuss away then. I didnt see this as a real issue. Have a nice night.
Not much of a discussion to be had. The 2 person rule has been required by the FAA for quite a while (whether it is always followed is a different issue).
Now many other airlines, or air safety agencies, will follow suit.
There is no overreaching agency to cover worldwide air travel though, so it is up to the various agencies and airlines.
In the end, you can't regulate out all risk though. We put our lives in the hands of others every single day. Air travel is still by far the safest mode of transportation.
The planes can fly themselves. I'm thinking there needs to be a safeguard system that could fly the plane from the ground. If our cars can do "autopilot", a plane could.
Quote from: mitt on March 27, 2015, 06:31:47 PM
The planes can fly themselves. I'm thinking there needs to be a safeguard system that could fly the plane from the ground. If our cars can do "autopilot", a plane could.
Kind of a scary thought. What keeps someone from flipping out, taking over a plane remotely and flying it into something high value?
I trained FAM's for a year after 911. These flight deck issues were discussed way back then. Two pilots in the cabin is the best answer, unless they both make the same choice. Breaching a door like that is easy, but they don't have the tools, and probably (couldn't) deploy them in the given time under duress. Also folks that may make this choice read the internet.