If technology in a bike is your thing it seems to me that BMW doesn't have anything on Ducati. Ducati traction control is ahead of BMW (introduced earlier to production models, and is superior based on WSBK results), the MTS adjustable suspension is ahead of the BMW version on the GS and the 1199 is even more advanced, keyless ignition, DDA, etc.

In short, I don't really think Ducati needs any help from BMW in the design/tech department...unless they wan to introduce a shaft final drive system with suspect reliability. 

Quote from: Triple J on February 13, 2012, 10:05:12 AM
If technology in a bike is your thing it seems to me that BMW doesn't have anything on Ducati. Ducati traction control is ahead of BMW (introduced earlier to production models, and is superior based on WSBK results), the MTS adjustable suspension is ahead of the BMW version on the GS and the 1199 is even more advanced, keyless ignition, DDA, etc.

In short, I don't really think Ducati needs any help from BMW in the design/tech department...unless they wan to introduce a shaft final drive system with suspect reliability.  

If you read all of my post instead of the last one you will clearly see that I state that I hope Ducati stays Ducati. I never said that Ducati "could learn a thing or two from BMW". What I said was if BMW bought the ducati brand then they would be willing to share their technology, I'm more than sure it would go both ways.But just to entertain, even if Ducati knows the most about technology there is still info that can be learned from company to company. So let's be clear, I never compared Ducati to BMW, but I did compare BMW to the big 4, ie Honda,kawa,suzuki,and Yamaha...

I did read all your posts, and they make no difference. Below is what I was responding to...if that isn't what you really meant then OK, but it reads like BMW could help Ducati with technology.

I don't care either way...just felt the need to point out that Ducati doesn't really need technology help from BMW.

Quote from: Expendable on February 13, 2012, 09:45:40 AM
They have really good technology in all of their bikes and it's hard for me to believe they would not share said info with a company they just bought...

It's also worth nothing that the last owner of Ducati was American (TPG), and is largey responsible for the good position the company is in now.

Quote from: stopintime on February 13, 2012, 01:37:26 AM
FIAT ?

NO THANKS.  We learned the hard way from the Alfa/Chrysler mashup

If Mercedes bought it, would they all become automatics with the occasional, rare exception? 

Quote from: Triple J on February 13, 2012, 10:48:49 AM
I did read all your posts, and they make no difference. Below is what I was responding to...if that isn't what you really meant then OK, but it reads like BMW could help Ducati with technology.

I don't care either way...just felt the need to point out that Ducati doesn't really need technology help from BMW.

It's also worth nothing that the last owner of Ducati was American (TPG), and is largey responsible for the good position the company is in now.

When I said share info I didn't mean tutor Ducati Don't know how youO came to that conclusion. And TPG only owned 45 percent of Ducati stock, so technically they didn't own it.

Quote from: ducatiz on February 13, 2012, 10:49:34 AM
NO THANKS.  We learned the hard way from the Alfa/Chrysler mashup

    lol that thing is hideous.

Quote from: Expendable on February 13, 2012, 11:01:51 AM
    lol that thing is hideous.

truly, you have to thank Cagiva for it.

They saved Ducati's bacon, and made some great bikes, but this one was a stinker.

Quote from: Triple J on February 13, 2012, 10:48:49 AM

It's also worth nothing that the last owner of Ducati was American (TPG), and is largey responsible for the good position the company is in now.

Exactly!   Should I stop at their offices and make the case for them to do it again and this time not sell it to the Italians?  . History seems to repeat itself. 

Sadly I know some of the folks at TPG.......better yet, they have a file on me from 2005 when my poor little monster was held hostage by a dealer, not in Dallas btw

It may be a good time for Investindustrial to get rid of Ducati.  It will have made a nice profit, which seems to be rare for private equity investment in vehicles, and will have left the company in decent shape.  According to the article, Mahindra, VW and BMW are interested.  I'd like to see BMW step in since I think both companies would benefit from supply chain improvements.  And maybe BMW could learn to design a bike that doesn't look like it just had a stroke. 

Quote from: sugarcrook on February 13, 2012, 03:24:55 PM
Mahindra, VW and BMW are interested. 

please God no.

Mahindra has a horrible reputation.

Tata would be far better for an indian firm.  Not Mahindra.  That would be like going back to Finn Meccanica

+1

This is too bad, but I have to say it makes sense they way the company has been acting recently.

I can't see a fit for any of the companies entertaining the offers.  VW?  They have the available cash, but hey also are a family that ranges from Skoda to Bugatti and Bentley.  They have no previous history with bikes, so it's not certain they wouldn't dump it after two years or strip off completely (see also Cerberus group involvement with Chrysler).

BMW?  I can't see that for similar reasons, though again, likely have the cash.  They have Husqvarna and their own broad lineup which nearly overlaps Ducati's range segment for segment.  The paperwork to add an 'Italian' company wouldn't make it across the Quandt's desks.

Mahindra?  Ducatiz has it nailed-I'll agree quality control isn't their forte, and Ducati needs all the help they can get to keep going with their current R&D.  A sale to them would debase their reputation thus far.

My probably culprits?  Three fold.  A side arm to the Ferrari group (again, they have cash, and understand a premium marque).  Tata motors, who's bought up Range Rover and Jaguar, so adding a motorcycle manufacturer might be in their interests.  I'm not saying it's in Italy's best interest but. . . .

The third is a private equity firm similar to TPG helping in the 90s.  A firm that understands premium brands and (more or less) keeps them fed with enough money to do what they're best at.  Possibly partial ownership with Italian management.

I also don't see any US companies opting in, simply because they don't understand Ducati in NA much less the world.

I think some of you guys read this as Ducati is in trouble and is faltering.  When I read the article that was not the case.  Ducati is doing very well.  All of their new models over that last couple of years have sold very well.  Their numbers are way up.  They are owned by a private equity group that wants to sell them so they can triple their investment.  Also, for Ducati to go to the next level (meaning bigger) they need a partner or owner with a lot of money to invest. 

Personally, I would like to see them stay the size they are right now.  However that isn't how people who run companies think.  Expand or die is how they operate. 

Years ago there was some talk of them buying Guzzi.

It makes sense to me, plenty of brands have multiple faces that overlap somewhat.  Guzzi is not a sportbike brand and Ducati doesn't make any sport tourers anymore, which is a big part of Guzzi's sales along with the classic bikes.

Seems Ducati could get a lower market scooter company and a companion label doing sport tourers and cruisers and whittle the line down to just sport bikes.  Maybe even a group doing trailies. 

Quote from: Travman on February 13, 2012, 06:40:42 PM
Personally, I would like to see them stay the size they are right now.  However that isn't how people who run companies think.  Expand or die is how they operate. 

Yes, me too, despite any complaints I have.  Ducati's had a great sales year, so they're either financially growing or ripe for selling (unfortunately).  I'd like to see them ally with similarly thinking Italian companies like Aprilia and the Piaggio group have done, but I think that group collected most of the 'good' Italian companies.

Unfortunately, this model of allegiances, mergers or outright purchases has been the norm in the automotive world (BMW-Rolls Royce, VW and its extensive group, Fiat / Chrysler and their subsidiaries, I could go on and on).  A small company like Ducati or MV, would be nice to see hold their own while retaining their 'smallness'.