Quote from: duckwrench13 on July 03, 2008, 08:16:14 AM
I'd rather see a kitchen full of roaches, than a roadway full of Priuses! 

So....... what time you going to be over for dinner?

Mercedes   http://benzinsider.com/2008/03/mercedes-benz-developing-100-electric
just announced they will have no gas burning cars by 2015. They are going full electric.

Lets face it, hippies, yippies, what-ev, oil sucks. Its not working for us anymore.

Desmodromic one day will be replaced by something else. 
(I did a concept design for an electric moto utilizing an electric motor the size of a coke can that puts out 100hp!
One on each wheel = 200hp moto with no transmission, no cooling system needed.
Battery technology sucks. That's next to change hopefully. )

Anyway the point is electric is not slow. people are slow. and it sure aint no hippy drippy thing either!
check this:

http://www.nedra.com/

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Hybrids are slow because that's how you're supposed to drive them to get the most out of their value proposition. So yeah, it's the drivers...as usual

And I suspect that even a massive switch to electric or other alternately-powered vehicles still isn't going to solve the fundamental problem: our society (infrastructure, etc) is set up to run best on very cheap (some call it subsidized) energy, and the era of cheap energy is over. A switch to 100% electric cars might delay that inevitability for a few years, but it won't solve the problem.

Motor vehicles, especially cars, use absurd amounts of energy, and oil gave us lots of energy bang for our buck. For the past 60 years, the structure of American infrastructure and society...private cars, suburban living, commuting, large detached houses, big box specialty stores, plastic everything, agricultural products that travel 1500 miles to land on your plate...has been based on an assumption of cheap energy. And now that this energy isn't going to be cheap anymore, lots of these things are going to have to change. Unless we get some miracle technical energy innovation that makes energy very cheap again, the changes we see will be drastic.

Sorry, don't mean to be a downer. But it always frustrates me when people assume that we'll find something new that lets us continue our profligate ways. 1% of the world's population, using 25% of its energy. That just doesn't add up to sustainability to me 

Quote from: desmoquattro on July 03, 2008, 03:32:00 PM
Hybrids are slow because that's how you're supposed to drive them to get the most out of their value proposition. So yeah, it's the drivers...as usual

And I suspect that even a massive switch to electric or other alternately-powered vehicles still isn't going to solve the fundamental problem: our society (infrastructure, etc) is set up to run best on very cheap (some call it subsidized) energy, and the era of cheap energy is over. A switch to 100% electric cars might delay that inevitability for a few years, but it won't solve the problem.

Motor vehicles, especially cars, use absurd amounts of energy, and oil gave us lots of energy bang for our buck. For the past 60 years, the structure of American infrastructure and society...private cars, suburban living, commuting, large detached houses, big box specialty stores, plastic everything, agricultural products that travel 1500 miles to land on your plate...has been based on an assumption of cheap energy. And now that this energy isn't going to be cheap anymore, lots of these things are going to have to change. Unless we get some miracle technical energy innovation that makes energy very cheap again, the changes we see will be drastic.

Sorry, don't mean to be a downer. But it always frustrates me when people assume that we'll find something new that lets us continue our profligate ways. 1% of the world's population, using 25% of its energy. That just doesn't add up to sustainability to me 

+1
Ya you're absolutely right here. We've had this discussion more than once.
I think that we haven't yet touched the kind of energy potential that's posible whether its a fusion fantasy or a major break through in solar etc. The point is also that populations have gotten to the point where we simply can't keep expanding and creating sprawl/commuting/ importing & devouring resources replenishing nothing etc.
The trees are gone the ocean's are getting fowled, the fish are gone... new energy isn't going to change that.

We need to change our habits is what it comes down to... including keeping the slow cars OUT OF THE FAST LANE! 

U.S.A. = 5% of the total world population, and consumes 25% of the petroleum derived energy resources.

Yep, it's gonna be a while before we're completely off the dead dino express.

I start to laugh at the Mofo's in the H2 slurping down the gas on the freeway. That is until I think about all those people in absurdly large Cars are a big part of the reason Gas is so expensive.

I passed a big yellow hummer on the monster some time ago, thinking how much better mileage I was getting. In fact when I checked later, I got 52 MPG doing 75 all the way to San Jose.


Those Prius drivers may need to go to driving school and learn how to drive with the rest of us, but at least they are trying to do their part.

Quote from: MendoDave on July 04, 2008, 03:57:04 PM
I start to laugh at the Mofo's in the H2 slurping down the gas on the freeway. That is until I think about all those people in absurdly large Cars are a big part of the reason Gas is so expensive.

I passed a big yellow hummer on the monster some time ago, thinking how much better mileage I was getting. In fact when I checked later, I got 52 MPG doing 75 all the way to San Jose.


Those Prius drivers may need to go to driving school and learn how to drive with the rest of us, but at least they are trying to do their part.

The Hummer drivers certainly aren't helping matters  But gas is expensive because (A) it's scarce, (B) the dollar is for shite these days and (C) developing countries like China, India, and Brazil are demanding more of it.

Hmm...reeducation for Prius drivers...I like that idea 

Probably need re education for everybody. The DMV should require every one to go to a BMW driving school at the track!
[Edit] Can you imagine the cost savings if everyone drove a little faster, co operated, was on the same page, etc...Fewer freeway backups....

We could be taught among other things, Not to rubberneck on the freeway. accelerate down the on ramp, every other car merges in a two lanes into one situation (Don't get right next to the other guy hoping hes gonna back off so you can be in front) Just assume that since they car two cars ahead merged to the left that they guy right in front of me on the left goes next, then me and so on.

Trust your tires, etc.

Yeah, but first we need to reeducate people to get rid of their entitlement mentalities 

I went for a Mt. Tam loop yesterday, and I swear that the Prius is the bain of my existance.  Something about seeing a Prius barreling down the wrong lane on Chileno Valley ... and the drivers always seem to be more focused on looking at the fuel economy screen than what's ahead of them, besides them, and behind them.  You always see the lone Prius in the fast lane doing 50 MPH and being passed on the right as people come up to them.  Admitttedly I used to have a Honda Civic Hybrid and to get the 48.6 MPG I got with it, I did need to drive it differently, however, I never parked myself in the fast lane either.  The car was the gutless wonder.

http://www.youtube.com/v/LmG05AtNVtM&hl=en&fs=1

The sad part is that my car now gets better fuel economy than my monster.  Gotta love Diesel. 

And actually the Prius is less fuel efficient than the M3 when driven like a normal car.     Well, sorta driven normal. 

http://www.youtube.com/v/PP6fe6i1vaY&hl=en&fs=1

They also have a suggestion on what they're good for:

http://www.youtube.com/v/oOvp69lnZbA&hl=en&fs=1

here is a great use of those limos;  check out the video

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=128491

  ptam,
the vids are hilarious !
thanks