Hey all,

I'm still a fairly new rider, and I now have ~1400 miles on my 09 696. I'm just curious as to what the prevalent correct downshifting technique is. Usually what I do, when coming to a stop, I apply brakes, pull in clutch, downshift, apply a little gas to better match engine and road speed, and gradually let out the clutch to avoid any bucking. I've heard some engage brakes, pull in clutch, blip throttle, downshift, and then gradually let out clutch. So either throttling before or after the downshift is where some people tend to vary. The way I have been doing things, seems to be working fine. I took the MSF course and have read Proficient Motorcycling and the Keith Code book, but otherwise, I am the only one in my group of friends that rides, and I have been learning a lot through individual experiences. I hope to find some older, mature riders than I can learn from...

Secondary question. At the critical moment before COMPLETELY stopping at let's say a stop sign or light, should I be on both brakes, just front, or just rear. I usually will be on the front brakes up UNTIL completely stopping and then I just cover my rear brake and stop. Some of my stops are completely smooth, and some are a bit wobbly. It seems that as I'm stopping, my body wants to continue forwards, I try to grip with my knees, but I eventually get a lot of my body weight on my arms/hands which makes steering adjustments at very slow speeds that I don't intend to. Also, should I let the clutch out in 1st gear, and then pull it in RIGHT before completely stopping? I don't like the feeling of having the clutch pulled in unless I'm at or near a complete stop. As the bike without any power on the rear wheel makes me nervous as stability is compromised.

AS ALWAYS YOU GUYS ARE AWESOME AND I APPRECIATE ANY FEEDBACK!!

PS. Can't wait for my 1st track day this summer, as I'm sure I'll learn a lot about what my bike can do, without worrying about cagers and police 

I try to match revs when downshifting - to avoid the engine breaking forces to upset the bike too much.

Closer to a full stop, the clutch is pulled and I squeeze the tank with my legs.
When/if skills are really good - it is possible to do a stoppie with only one hand at the bars (lots of leg squeezing)

It's not often I do it, but a light rear brake can help stabilize the bike - also at slow speeds.

Cool, thanks for the feedback!

for sure... I am a firm believer in ALWAYS applying both brakes, whether at slow speeds or highway speeds. bike is more stable and you have the ability to stop in a shorter distance. more practice = better braking... one thing i learned early on is that if you're too heavy on the front brake, your rear wheel lightens up and is quicker to loose traction when the rear brake is applied.

Cheers!

Personally I don't bother letting out the clutch between gears if I'm coming to a stop.

I do downshift into an appropriate gear for whatever speed I happen to be going. Drop below 40? Kick it into 2nd. Less that 20? 1st gear. But I don't bother letting out the clutch unless I need to start moving forward, e.g. the light changes from red to green as I'm approaching. I'd rather use both of my brakes to make a smooth, controlled stop than worry about letting out the clutch too quickly and upsetting the suspension.

If all I'm doing is slowing down, I will blip the throttle as I'm letting out the clutch to match engine and wheel speeds. To me, the biggest down side to engine braking is that it doesn't activate your brake light. If there's no one behind you, that's not a big deal, but it's not a great technique to use in traffic. In situations like that, where I'm engine braking but don't need to downshift, I'll use my rear brake (lightly) as a brake light switch to let the driver behind me know that I'm slowing down.

As far as general braking goes, both is better. Shorter stopping distance and all that. That said, I don't really get a whole lot of feedback through my rear brake while at speed, so I'm pretty much either "on" or "off" the rear brake (except as mentioned above, where I'm barely on it just to get the brake light to light up) and use the front to modulate most of my braking force. The rear is pretty easy to lock up, especially, as George S mentions, when you're hard on the front brake.

The rear brake can be really handy for slow-speed stuff, tho. Parking lot maneuvers, U-turns, that kind of thing. At those speeds, it's pretty easy to modulate, and less likely to result in the front end folding underneath you.

That should clear up most of nothing for you! 

My rear brake is just for looks.

My rear brake is for locking it up coming to lights so I can let everyone know I am NOT happy about stopping.



j/k

Lot's of good advice in this thread already. Find what's most comfortable for you. There will be a balance of "what he said" and "what feels right" for your riding/skills.

I personally blip the throttle and match revs while downshifting. Not that it's always needed but I like to do it to keep up with the practice and feel for when I'm riding the bike hard. It's become a rhythm to my riding and it's just part of what I do.

I 100% agree with $Lindz$ regarding throttle matching!

I almost always blip the throttle while downshifting to match revs. I never really use my rear brake unless someone pulls out in front of me and i am trying to stop really fast

Quote from: George S on February 10, 2012, 07:40:35 PM
for sure... I am a firm believer in ALWAYS applying both brakes, whether at slow speeds or highway speeds. bike is more stable and you have the ability to stop in a shorter distance. more practice = better braking... one thing i learned early on is that if you're too heavy on the front brake, your rear wheel lightens up and is quicker to loose traction when the rear brake is applied.

Cheers!

I found this out the hard way the other day. I was coming into a corner a little too hot and had to nail the brakes. I was on the front hard and decided I needed more but when I jabbed the rear the wheel locked up and started to come out from under me. I was at a safe enough speed to go around the corner but just couldn't let go of the brakes to make it around the corner. Needless to say the whole way home I practiced my I.C.E. braking.

You know how the MSF course teaches you to apply both brakes at the same time? Due to the monster's super soft front forks I find it better to be on the front brakes first and then apply the rear brake after the suspension has settled and then apply gradual pressure on both as you come to the point where you want to stop.

As for blipping and downshifting, it is good practice. Just make sure you pull in the clutch when <1500 rpm or the engine starts lugging.

QuoteMy rear brake is just for looks.

If you don't know how you use rear brake PROPERLY, this may happen to you some day.

(That's not me in that video, BTW)

You may not ride in the city of San Francisco in a rainy day, but, the worse the situation gets, the more it helps (to know how you use rear brake. )


My Crash

I have seemed to programmed this into my head so i do it on everything i ride/drive, even in emergency situations.  I apply the breaks gently so that the suspension loads up, once i get to that point i then jam on the both brakes.  This has always proved to be successful. I have almost hit cars people and anything else that crossed in my path with more than ample room.  I have never had the front was out on me even the one time i came to a stop sign and there was gravel on the road.  The front wheel skid and since the suspension was stable and loaded i eased off the brakes and stayed up.

I use my rear a lot (learned in the dirt first)

Quote from: kopfhunter on February 19, 2012, 04:53:56 PM
My rear brake is just for looks.

So's my clutch.

I never use it for down shifting except sometimes from 2-1