Quote from: monsterdan on January 27, 2012, 09:55:15 AM
Just got of speaking with Bazzaz and   no system available for the 08-2010 1100... 😡 They have 696/796/Evo, but nought for the best of the bunch.😢
If they have enough people request apparently they will start working, so if anybody knows a good spammer point them to Bazzaz.com (kidding!!)

Any thoughts on the Rexxer as a tuner? or is it just to reflash? I couldn't find much on that in English that is current, and while I emailed with Chris at Daniele-moto would like a users opinion... I guess DynoJet is the only other option?

Search this forum for Rexxer you will get an ear/eye full.

Quote from: monsterdan on January 27, 2012, 09:55:15 AM
Any thoughts on the Rexxer as a tuner? or is it just to reflash? I couldn't find much on that in English that is current, and while I emailed with Chris at Daniele-moto would like a users opinion... I guess DynoJet is the only other option?

People seem to like it because it allows you to re-flash the ECU and update it with a map... However, I think there are only one or two rexxer tuning locations in the US, so you cannot tune your bike like you could if you had the power commander, which is widely used by most Dyno tuners... You basically are stuck with what they send you.... The PC and Bazazz allow you to make changes

Thanks DoWorkSon, all the threads I found related mainly to Rexxers previous inability to disable the service indicator.

So basically... I get the Rexxer and do my own reflash based on the map they give me, or I send the ECU away and have someone else put a tuned map on, but since neither will have been designed with my environment in mind (very hot and very humid all year round) may not be optimum.  So if looking for ultimate solution, adding the dynojet with Autotune will be the solution to amend/tweak the new "race" map...

Or keep stock ECU go for Dynojet pack and keep the revs above 4k at all times....  😜

Argh... decisions decisions

I run a Micro-Tec on the Monster, but I have a Bazzaz on the Duke and couldn't be happier with the results.

Quote from: monsterdan on January 27, 2012, 06:54:28 PM
Thanks DoWorkSon, all the threads I found related mainly to Rexxers previous inability to disable the service indicator.

So basically... I get the Rexxer and do my own reflash based on the map they give me, or I send the ECU away and have someone else put a tuned map on, but since neither will have been designed with my environment in mind (very hot and very humid all year round) may not be optimum.  So if looking for ultimate solution, adding the dynojet with Autotune will be the solution to amend/tweak the new "race" map...

Or keep stock ECU go for Dynojet pack and keep the revs above 4k at all times....  😜

Argh... decisions decisions

Yeah, your last sentence sums it up.... I did a 696 with the Rexxer about $600.00. I think one thing I havent seen mentioned in this thread is having the rev limit raised which is a big improvement for the 696 motor. I don't think that's possible with using the stock ecu so if your doing a 696 make sure you reflash stock ecu & get rev limit raised. If I was going to do it now I would reflash stock ecu along with the Bazzaz & get it dyno tuned. Most of these decisions are personal opinion I'm old school & IMO a good dyno tune works better then an auto tune. I've heard real good results from auto tune but I've done so many bikes on a dyno I'll stick with it. One thing also is you can only get so much from these air cooled motors & I know the Rexxer & tune boy maps are almost spot on so for around $250.00 you can get a reflash that is fantastic & have some money left over for susp. mods or whatever. No right or wrong Rexxer, PCV, Bazzaz, are good choice. 

The Bazzaz stuff works really well on the new Monsters. The only possible complaint that I could envision is that you cant map each cylinder individually. However, the trim feature compensates for this quite well.

The biggest problem with canned maps are related to the actual state of tune of each individual bike. So, when you get a flashed ECU from Mota Lab, (or DP, etc) that map works great for a bike that has a clean set of injectors and cam timing set perfectly to spec.

How many Ducati's do you guys know of that have cams timed to spec from the factory? Not many.
How many people get their injectors cleaned and flowed after leaving ethanol based gasoline in their tanks for a few months during winter? Again, not many.

The Dynojet solution does not allow for mapping at all RPM and throttle openings? Then it is less useful than the Bazzaz. Period.

I just did some pulls on a Dynojet 250 and found 84hp, 71tq, and A/F very lean. HP and TQ curves were beautiful howerver, and bike really didnt do much from 7k to 8k. I didnt go past 8k as it didnt really want to rev up there. Bike was a 2010 M1100 with Arrow header and Termi slip-ons. Mota Lab ECU flash to DP Race spec and DP slip on air filter.

I am installing the MWR power up airbox mod kit and Bazzaz Z-Fi (F191) and tuning with Bazzaz AFM.

I'll report back here when I get a minute to put it on the dyno- hoping to do this within the next week or so.

Quote from: Full_Spectrum on May 13, 2012, 06:58:04 PMThe Dynojet solution does not allow for mapping at all RPM and throttle openings? Then it is less useful than the Bazzaz. Period.

Period? Really?

I see pros and cons for both Bazzaz and Dynojet's PCV.  If you have your ECU reflashed to delete the closed loop, then PCV is indeed able to be mapped throughout the entire range, independently for each cylinder.  Which I'd argue is a better end game than Bazzaz.

But we're spitting hairs  .

ok guys, here is what I have going on... I have read the couple of threads around this stuff but want to be clear.

Current Bike 09 M1100s 15K miles AMF slip-ons DP ECU and air filter

I picked up a set of the DP Cams and a PCV to install during the 15K service I am about to do. The DP ECU allowed me to remove the flapper motor and the PCV will allow me to "tune" for the cams, but it seems only over 4K RPM. And their is only 1 map on the site currently.

I have been on the lookout for an Autotune (Harley version) at a good price, but seems after reading all of this stuff I need to have my stock ECM reflashed to allow removal of stock o2's (lambdas) and use the autotune in place. If this is the case then I will have a DP ECU for sale shortly 

Am I on the correct path here? Anyone use the DP Cams and can report goods and bads? I know it is real common in the Hyper world to do the swap but have not seen anything on M1100s. I picked up a set for a REALLY good price from a shop that was closing and could not resist.

I checked into Bazazz but they still do not make one for the 1100s.

Quote from: scooterd145 on May 14, 2012, 09:30:11 AMThe DP ECU allowed me to remove the flapper motor

Then you must have the M1100 DP Termi Full System ECU, right?

Quote from: scooterd145 on May 14, 2012, 09:30:11 AMthe PCV will allow me to "tune" for the cams, but it seems only over 4K RPM. And their is only 1 map on the site currently

Dynojet's download site you're talking?  I havent checked, but you're probably correct.  They only offer "off the peg" mapping anyway, and yes only above the closed loop rpm range (4K?).  Better to take your PCV along for a proper Dynotune (or run Autotune - more about that later).

Quote from: scooterd145 on May 14, 2012, 09:30:11 AMI have been on the lookout for an Autotune (Harley version) at a good price, but seems after reading all of this stuff I need to have my stock ECM reflashed to allow removal of stock o2's (lambdas) and use the autotune in place.

Not exactly.  Its like this:  If you want to have your PCV able to map throughout the entire rev range you would need to first have your ECU reflashed to delete the closed loop (the sub +/- 4K range which currently takes input from your lambda sensors).  You could then have optimised PCV mapping set up on a Dyno throughout.  Or you could fit Autotune (as have I) to achieve a similar outcome dynamically instead.

But none of this really relates to the original subject line....  so here endeth my part in the threadjack  

Yes on the Termi/DP full exhaust ECU

Yes on the Dynojet site

And thanks for the info Ung

(and sorry for the threadjack 

Quote from: ungeheuer on May 14, 2012, 04:27:23 AM
Period? Really?

I see pros and cons for both Bazzaz and Dynojet's PCV.  If you have your ECU reflashed to delete the closed loop, then PCV is indeed able to be mapped throughout the entire range, independently for each cylinder.  Which I'd argue is a better end game than Bazzaz.

But we're spitting hairs  .

Yup, really. JMO, of course. 

This is with no mapping and before the MWR Power Up Kit. I should have a map this weekend if I can find time, and will post results.


Monster_dyno_512012_pipe_ecu

Its easy to see why stock they're so "lumpy" when you look at that nasty fuelling.

Horribly lean throughout.  Begins to fuel around 3,200.... and then leans right out again as rev rise  .

Shouldnt be too difficult to improve on that (by whichever method turns you on)  

I expect the greatest improvement in better fuelling to be to the "feel" of how the power is delivered.  I'm sure it will feel massively more tractable and lay down its power in a much more enjoyable way.   I wouldnt expect massive increases in hp or torque though.

Quote from: ungeheuer on May 17, 2012, 09:21:29 PM
Its easy to see why stock they're so "lumpy" when you look at that nasty fuelling.

Horribly lean throughout.  Begins to fuel around 3,200.... and then leans right out again as rev rise  .

Shouldnt be too difficult to improve on that (by whichever method turns you on)  

I expect the greatest improvement in better fuelling to be to the "feel" of how the power is delivered.  I'm sure it will feel massively more tractable and lay down its power in a much more enjoyable way.   I wouldnt expect massive increases in hp or torque though.

Yeah. I was stunned at how lean it was. It really didnt want to pull past 7k or so on the dyno, so I am thinking there will be something to come from mapping up top. In theory...

Ok, Ive done a few days of self mapping on road and went back to the dyno yesterday afternoon. It was almost 25 degrees hotter yesterday, than when I did the baseline run. Also, there were some problems with the dyno which make less comparison less than useful, unfortunately.
We had done the original runs with the O2 probe from the Dynojet 250 and we saw some crazy lean conditions- 16:1 in some places.
When we did the second set of runs with a map built @ 13:1 (using the same probe) we saw...16:1 again. So, the probe was junk. This kind of throws off anything helpful in the regard. Next, the tach lead died, so instead of hp/tq v rpm, it uses speed on the new graph. This can be compared as seen on this graph, but still an annoyance.

So, for this set of runs, I used the same rear cylinder exhaust bung that I am using with the Z-AFM, but replaced it with the Dynojet O2. As you will see from the A/F trace, it was now rich. I think that the Dynojet probe is probably off here, as the Bazzaz unit is brand new, and the Dynojet one was...seasoned.


Monster_dyno_5222012_pipe_ecu_Bazzaz

I did trim the front cylinder at 3%.

My main goal here was to document what gains I saw from a properly mapped bike with the MWR power up filter kit. Unfortunately, the dyno issues really do prevent a true back to back comparison in real numbers. I am really less than pleased about this deal with the dyno, but the guys at R&R were good enough to help me out and sometimes things happen beyond our control.
Riding the bike tells a different story, however. I was able to clean up the throttle everywhere, with the bike now running really cleanly from about 2500 to 8500. The mid-range is definitely  stronger now, though I wont hazard a guess as to how much.

I would absolutely do the MWR mod again. Well worth the money- I think it was less than $100.
I did get to ride the bike mapped, but without the filter kit, and while it was better for sure, it didnt feel much stronger. The MWR kit is stronger for sure. I might have the opportunity to do this again all in the same day with another bike and if so will be sure to document the changes.

Mate, I've had similar unreliable experiences when attempting to get meaningful results from a "pro" dyno  .  Took me several attempts to get my own Autotune efforts cross-checked (but even then there were problems which meant we couldnt do all that I hoped for)  .

In the end I concluded that the headline hp/tq numbers were academic, just so long as the thing is fuelling as well as can be.

I bought a wideband O2 AFR probe/gauge kit like this  >> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Innovate-MTX-L-Wideband-O2-AFR-DIGITAL-Gauge-Kit-3844-/290591179416?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item43a8958298&vxp=mtr <<  so that I can crosscheck what my autotune is "sniffing".  Not too pricey and worth it if you wanna know that the fuelling you're aiming for is whats being delivered.  Good IMO coz you're reading it on the fly in real world conditions.