I'll answer that one... trail braking.

Glad to hear you're OK.

Murphy's law; what can go wrong will go wrong. Usually at the most in inopportune time.

With the bike totaled, what are you going to get into next?

lm definetly no expert either. But it seems to me trail breaking is an advance technique which helps to get it pointed in. But if your rolling OFF the throttle mid turn or applying breaks mid turn, those techniques should be worked out first?

Trail braking is advanced, and what separates the men from the boys.  Not saying you can't or shouldn't trail brake, but it did look like you were using it often in you video.  You may have had just a tad more pressure than you normally do, or the conditions of the surface, track temp/tire temp, etc. did not allow the amount of trail braking you "normally" use.

This one will keep you guessing for a long time, but as annoying as it may be not knowing EXACTLY what caused the crash, it will build a little more cushion into your riding from now on that just may protect you from a much more serious accident. 

I've had three very valuable "learning" experiences.  I have washed the front under braking because I focused more on making the corner and forgot about the amount of pressure I had on the front brakes.....why is it an advanced technique?......because it is counter intuitive to your instinctual reaction and very difficult to train yourself to release the brake as you apply more lean angle.  Once you reach the "limit" there is no saving it.  Man, does it happen fast! (Pilot Power Race, F&R....I was aware of not using race tires on the street, but had to "learn" for myself that you just can't keep them at the right operating temp all the time)

On the other hand I have lost the rear at relatively low speeds (35mp and 10mph).  The first was with a pillion on a 70F morning, we rolled into a nice easy right hander, maybe 15-20* of lean and the back end just came around in slow motion.  I remember thinking quite clearly, "Why is this happening?" as we went down.  It was less than a mile in, and I attribute it to cold tires/asphalt, but it still haunts me till this day.  (Pilot Power, F&R)

Second was pulling away from a late meeting where the temperature dropped suddenly, maybe 20* to 50's. I pulled up to the light, which was up hill, turning to the right and the rear went like I hit ice.  Gone, nothing I could do about it.  I was on the ground before I knew what happened.  Checked the ground for obvious oil slicks etc.  I was maybe doing 10mph at most, never touched the rear brake...just gone.  This was also on PP Race tires.  Convinced me these tires had no place on the street, because they just won't work under such varying conditions.

I have been on 2CTs since..excellent tire!

Sorry for the long response, but hopefully it helps someone.

Quote from: ryanracer on July 07, 2012, 05:34:56 PM
YAY! - Went to the Dr. - nothing broken just sprained! (got very lucky)  In the meantime, here is a video I took a couple of weeks back at the track.


Ducati 696 Track Testing Oil Cooler

Having taking CSS there are a number of things I noticed which you could improve on.

1) Get ON the throttle earlier! As soon as you set your lean angle roll on the throttle smoothly and continuously. I noticed lots of turns where you are just coasting and not opening the throttle until you are already at your exit. Also, after you have opened the throttle do not close it. If you find yourself going wide just hold it steady the bike will automatically tighten the line.

2) Not sure if you were going into the turns too hot or just wasn't steering quick enough but you missed alot of apexes. I'd suggest not trail braking until you can be smooth and flow around the whole track on the bike. Just set your desired speed before your turn in point.

An example of all your errors in one turn would be around the 3:36 mark in your video going into the left hander. You are trail braking and trying to set your bike lean angle into the turn. And then after you finally set your lean angle you coast for a bit before chopping the throttle and then rolling on the throttle.

Quote from: xsephirot on July 13, 2012, 03:01:10 PM
Having taking CSS there are a number of things I noticed which you could improve on.

1) Get ON the throttle earlier! As soon as you set your lean angle roll on the throttle smoothly and continuously. I noticed lots of turns where you are just coasting and not opening the throttle until you are already at your exit. Also, after you have opened the throttle do not close it. If you find yourself going wide just hold it steady the bike will automatically tighten the line.

2) Not sure if you were going into the turns too hot or just wasn't steering quick enough but you missed alot of apexes. I'd suggest not trail braking until you can be smooth and flow around the whole track on the bike. Just set your desired speed before your turn in point.

An example of all your errors in one turn would be around the 3:36 mark in your video going into the left hander. You are trail braking and trying to set your bike lean angle into the turn. And then after you finally set your lean angle you coast for a bit before chopping the throttle and then rolling on the throttle.

This is what I was eluding too, when i said.. why are you  "trail braking"?  Looking at the video, you would benefit much more from NOT being on the brakes at all mid turn.. and working  on honing your proper "entry speed", so that you can make your entry, apex and exits more consistently. Your putting the carriage beofre the horse.  Your attempting to execute and advance techniqiue, when the basics arent in place yet.  In my humble opinion, you simply exceeded your tractionllinmiuts. I see it sveral times a week. As me how i know.

If you were trail braking.. AND making your entry, apex and exits cleanly. Then id say, trail breaking is working for you. looking at your video, it simply looks like your scrubbing off speed because you went in to hot. Sooner or later the front is going to tuck. as the previous person noted, being on the gas as soon as possible, stabilizes the motorcycle and allow you to make your apex more consistently.

Quote from: xsephirot on July 13, 2012, 03:01:10 PM
Having taking CSS

I'll be there in 2 weeks for the Level I course. I'm pumped

Quote from: Veloce-Fino on July 13, 2012, 06:35:38 PM
I'll be there in 2 weeks for the Level I course. I'm pumped

Nice! You'll wish you signed up for the 2nd day after the first day. Hell I wished I had signed up for all 4 days...

Quote from: xsephirot on July 13, 2012, 08:11:31 PM
Nice! You'll wish you signed up for the 2nd day after the first day. Hell I wished I had signed up for all 4 days...

Unfortunately my wallet can only handle so much. I'm in for $1,000 for just this one day after taking into account hotel and transportation.

I'm taking level 2 in September though.

Next season probably going to take 3 and the "pro" class.

I'm going to sell a kidney and 1/2 my liver (heavily used) to bankroll the classes.

1st off, glad your OK. 2nd, I'm not going to preach about proper gear, we've all done it. You say you used the same brake pressure, you mean to the best of your ability. Pressure is something which you can only somewhat control. Even the highest skilled riders go down. Usually because they are pushing the limits. Oh yeah, braking in the turn never good.