Quote from: Raux on October 16, 2012, 11:30:07 AM
I'm just saying this design was supposed to be light years ahead of everyone else. yet it's not.

And I'm saying we don't know that yet.

Superstock runs on DOT race tires.
SBK runs on pure race slicks.

Therefore, Superstock setup data means make the beast with two backs-all for a SBK bike.

I've been reading old test results and forums on the 999/1098 shift... lol... oh how history repeats itself

I now respectfully hold my judgement.

Quote from: Raux on October 16, 2012, 11:51:40 AM
I've been reading old test results and forums on the 999/1098 shift... lol... oh how history repeats itself

I now respectfully hold my judgement.

LOL! I'm impressed you went and dug those up! Given Ducati Corse's recent history developing bikes in MotoGP, I think some skepticism is warranted. That said, I suspect that developing and racing prototypes is a far different effort than developing and racing production based bikes and I have a little more faith in Ducati to get that right.

I'm telling you: they should've pushed to bring Rossi into WSBK on a Panigale...or Spies for that matter

Quote from: Raux on October 16, 2012, 11:22:18 AM
Ducati 'right out of the gate wins'


888
916
996
999
1098

you could argue the 888 was an upgrade of the 851 and the 996 an upgrade of the 916
that still leaves the 916, 999, 1098 as out of the box designs

Not sure about the other manufacturers, but it's been done.

and with the 916 introduction, they still campaigned the 888. Same as when they introduced the 999, they still raced the 998, and when they introduced the 1098, they still raced the 999. All of these were a year to introduce the machine for homologation and potentially race it in smaller supported classes to put units out there

and they did the same for the 1199. they raced the 1098R this year.

Quote from: Raux on October 16, 2012, 11:22:18 AMDucati 'right out of the gate wins'

888
916
996
999
1098

you could argue the 888 was an upgrade of the 851 and the 996 an upgrade of the 916
that still leaves the 916, 999, 1098 as out of the box designs

Not sure about the other manufacturers, but it's been done.

Not just "could argue" -- the 888 was a minor update of the 851.  The 916 was a development of the 888.  The 996 was a minor update of the 916.  The 999 was a development of the 998.  The 1098 was a development of the 999.  NONE of those were "out of the box" designs.  NONE of them were based on a different concept than the bike before it.  Each was a step in a continuous path of development -- like the other manufacturers' bikes in WSB this year are, and like the Panigale is NOT.

Quote from: Raux on October 16, 2012, 11:30:07 AMI'm just saying this design was supposed to be light years ahead of everyone else. yet it's not.

Do you have any experience in technology development, in any industry?  Expecting any new tech to start out as better than the highly developed forms of the old tech is simply irrational.  The new idea *always* has to be approximated, tested, developed, and refined -- often for quite a while -- before it is better in practice than the previous tech.  That any new tech is even in the ballpark of the best of the old tech, right out of the box, is amazing and is cause for celebration.

PhilB

888 to 916 disagree. swingarm frame both new tech
998 to 999 disagree. againt swingarm new tech
1098. ok maybe a revamp of the 998 but even then swingarm different

the 1199 had years of development on the gp grid you all said it yourself

Quote from: Raux on October 16, 2012, 10:23:21 PM
888 to 916 disagree. swingarm frame both new tech
998 to 999 disagree. againt swingarm new tech
1098. ok maybe a revamp of the 998 but even then swingarm different

the 1199 had years of development on the gp grid you all said it yourself

correction: portions/aspects of the 1199 were developed in GP, but overall, the bike as a whole is a new untested property and is a completely revolutionary bike in comparison to the 1198R previously raced.

day 2 times...

Pos. Rider Bike Time Diff Prev
1 Tom Sykes Kawasaki 1:57.6     
2 Max Biaggi Aprilia 1:57.8 0.2 0.2
3 Leon Camier Suzuki 1:58.1 0.5 0.3
4 Eugene Laverty Aprilia 1:58.4 0.8 0.3
5 Michel Fabrizio Aprilia 1:58.4 0.8 0.0
6 Carlos Checa Ducati 1:58.5 0.9 0.1
7 Loris Baz Kawasaki 1:59.2 1.6 0.7
8 David Giugliano Ducati 1:59.4 1.8 0.2
9 Josh Waters Suzuki 2:00.2 2.6 0.8
10 Alex Hofmann Aprilia 2:00.8 3.2 0.6


and notes http://www.motomatters.com/results/2012/10/16/2012_aragon_world_superbike_winter_test_.html

Quote...Carlos Checa continues work on the Ducati Panigale, and the bike is making good progress despite it still being very early days in its development. Checa was half a second quicker than yesterday, and the gap to the fastest man has stayed more or less stable. An announcement on the future of Checa and of Davide Giugliano is expected soon...

I'm pretty torn btwn rooting for Sykes next year or rooting for Checa.

Quote from: Raux on October 16, 2012, 10:23:21 PM
888 to 916 disagree. swingarm frame both new tech
998 to 999 disagree. againt swingarm new tech
1098. ok maybe a revamp of the 998 but even then swingarm different

No, none of those were new tech; they were ALL developments and redesigns of the OLD tech.

Quote from: Raux on October 16, 2012, 10:23:21 PMthe 1199 had years of development on the gp grid you all said it yourself

No, in this case it is *very* different.  The MotoGP bike had a completely different engine, and a frame made of CF for most of those years, then with some aluminum inserts, and very briefly with an aluminum version.  They learned some things, enough to make a decent start on the Panigale's design, but the Panigale itself is still a clean sheet, a very different bike from anything they have built before.

PhilB

Not a great start, Checa's 1199 blew up and oiled down the front straight.

how'd the s1000RR do it's first year?

In manufacturer standings...
2009 - 6th (highest finish: 5th)
2010 - 6th (highest finish: 3rd)
2011 - 4th (highest finish: 3rd)


"God created Ducati to train the faithful."

Quote from: Speeddog on October 17, 2012, 06:37:33 PM
Not a great start, Checa's 1199 blew up and oiled down the front straight.